Blake Snell and Yu Darvish traded to San Diego

[iWiN4PreP]

2 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

 

A 20 plus million salary is substantial for us.  Am I the only guy who would be scared of it coming to a guy 34,35,36 years old?

Again, as others have stated their fears with "injury prone SPs" and this with "age". Which SPs were available that were better fits?

Luis Castillo is the only one that comes to mind, and he would cost maybe 2x what these guys cost. Trevor Bauer fits the bill, but no one knows what he is doing and his bidding might continue for a few more months. You can't wait on him.

 

[bmags]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

But he did get straight A's on the pronoun test.

Here's an example of a question from the test for those wondering:

Place an x next to the correct sentence:

( ) The White Sox should sign Lyle Mouton

( ) We should sign Lyle Mouton

(x) Lyle Mouton

[southsider2k5]

The answer is obviously D, all of the above

[EloyJenkins]

What I find really strange about both deals...Why didn't the Rays or Cubs wait longer until Bauer, Springer or Realmuto signed? You could have had desperate teams willing to throw in a Gore or something big for the losing teams. With almost ZERO FA movement so far this year on the premium pieces...are prices going to be driven down after these trades since the suitor pool has just decreased by at least 6 teams? (Padres, Sox, Rangers, Cubs, Rays & Braves -since they made their moves already)

[Tony]

19 minutes ago, bmags said:

It's true us real mods are known for our keen intellect and logical consistency. Tony failed  his annual exams so we booted him.

I can’t believe you told everyone. I thought we agreed this stayed between us?!?! Bastard

[Tony]

23 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Not sure how an admin (former mod) can be so illogical. Numerous times in the past you've brought this up, it's a great way to avoid any of the logical arguments and completely turn the conversation into a spamfest/argument. Really immature. 

Just to be clear here so I have this right...

You’re not only saying you are making “logical arguments” but also calling me immature, while at the same time crediting the Padres for making trades in real life that you yourself would make in a video game. Is that right? 
 

And for the record, I’ll bring up your temper tantrum as much as I feel like. It’s a message board. You made the decision to tell the world you were done with the White Sox. Fine. But when you come back and want to use the word “we” like you are some loyal, die-hard fan, I’m 100% going to call you out on that. 
 

Deal with it. 

[Kyyle23]

6 minutes ago, Tony said:

I can’t believe you told everyone. I thought we agreed this stayed between us?!?! Bastard

No they only promised your low wonderlic test was off limits.  

[iWiN4PreP]

3 minutes ago, Tony said:

Just to be clear here so I have this right...

You’re not only saying you are making “logical arguments” but also calling me immature, while at the same time crediting the Padres for making trades in real life that you yourself would make in a video game. Is that right? 
 

And for the record, I’ll bring up your temper tantrum as much as I feel like. It’s a message board. You made the decision to tell the world you were done with the White Sox. Fine. But when you come back and want to use the word “we” like you are some loyal, die-hard fan, I’m 100% going to call you out on that. 
 

Deal with it. 

Again, nothing substantial from your post. 

You are on my ignored user list for bringing nothing to the table to discuss except attacks on me. 

Edited December 29, 2020 by iWiN4PreP

[ron883]

28 minutes ago, bmags said:

It's true us real mods are known for our keen intellect and logical consistency. Tony failed  his annual exams so we booted him.

It's crazy how much better of a mod I would be than Tony. Sign me up, bmags. 

[Kyyle23]

10 minutes ago, Tony said:

Just to be clear here so I have this right...

You’re not only saying you are making “logical arguments” but also calling me immature, while at the same time crediting the Padres for making trades in real life that you yourself would make in a video game. Is that right? 
 

And for the record, I’ll bring up your temper tantrum as much as I feel like. It’s a message board. You made the decision to tell the world you were done with the White Sox. Fine. But when you come back and want to use the word “we” like you are some loyal, die-hard fan, I’m 100% going to call you out on that. 
 

Deal with it. 

 

[Tony]

8 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

 

Just put that twerp in the Walls of Jericho.....

[southsider2k5]

19 minutes ago, ron883 said:

It's crazy how much better of a mod I would be than Tony. Sign me up, bmags. 

Sorry, no Cubs fans in the club.

[Tony]

On 2/19/2019 at 12:05 PM, iWiN4PreP said:

Unreal. Welp, it's been nice guys -- but I can no longer root for this team (I am assuming they WON'T get Harper based on these comments/remarks by Kenny Williams). 

 

I am in complete shock. It's not like the Padres offered some astronomical deal -- KW and co. just wouldn't go past certain constructs like the $300 mill and the 10 years. They weren't serious suitors from the beginning and they tried to pry their way into it by trading for Jay and Alonso. Without Machado/Harper this team in 2019 is disgusting. Further, the Padres now have taken Tatis and Machado away from this organization. It's downright hilarious and torturous to be a White Sox fan. 

I am shocked, but at least this will make my fantasy baseball game better as I won't need to bias myself with any sort of fandom to the White Sox. 

 

On 2/19/2019 at 12:31 PM, iWiN4PreP said:

Well guys, this is the end of the line for me -- I won't be coming back to the site as I am no longer following the White Sox.

Special shout out to @Brian as I feel you helped me see the positives in current wrestling and also were willing to let the past be the past and move forward with constructive conversations. 

Take care friends. 

 

On 2/22/2019 at 8:41 AM, iWiN4PreP said:

Welp, MY Padres have a 'seat' at the table and I think we all know how this will end up. 

LETS GO FRIARS. Take Harper. 

 

 

On 2/22/2019 at 9:59 AM, iWiN4PreP said:

I am a Padres fan and not a troll. I'm just a tortured soul waiting for the Harper saga to conclude so that I can eliminate the ties to the White sox once and for all (in my heart of hearts I still have no fathomable idea why the White Sox don't sign Harper, but their organization may be the least intelligent in all of baseball). 

 

24 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Again, nothing substantial from your post. 

You are on my ignored user list for bringing nothing to the table to discuss except attacks on me. 

I would say "Bye-Bye" but we all know you'll be back.....

[Harry Chappas]

1 hour ago, iWiN4PreP said:

I have my doubts with both Lynn and Keuchel. Darvish, on the other hand, has overpowering stuff. I would have felt better giving up Dunning for 3 guaranteed years of an overpowering arsenal of Darvish rather than Lynn. I see Lynn being closer to a 4.0 ERA with the Sox than a 3.0. Keuchel will regress, that's guaranteed, from last year. Kopech will pitch very little, and Cease so far has sucked. 

We are in trouble with pitching. 

I agree Bauer would have been the perfect move, but the W'Sox killed that with LaRussa signing and the fact that they don't sign big contracts anyway.

I'm just jealous that the Padres had enough prospect capital and $$$$ to trade for the 2 biggest SP acquisitions and sign the korean sensation in the same 24 hour span while the W'Sox look around the league to find the best contracts to spend the least amount of money while trying to compete. Their shooting themselves in the foot. This isn't covid-white sox strategy, this has been their strategy all along. 

 

Teams like the Rays and A's have serious payroll constraints and compete with intelligent baseball analytic moves.

The Chicago White Sox aren't that desperate with money, but my god, how much $$$$ we've wasted over the years on the 'middle route' with guys like Edwin, Nomar, Eaton, etc. etc. They need to learn to pay up once in a while to get their $$$'s worth. 

So that I understand correctly you have doubts on Lynn and Keuchel but not Snell and Darvish? 

Snell has had ONE great year and the rest are average.  Darvish has not been a model of consistency when it comes to health.  I compared Lynn to Snell and Darvish when it comes to actually pitching and if you add Dallas it is not even a conversation.

San Diego has the capital to take this risk the White Sox do not nor do they necessarily need to.

[ron883]

8 minutes ago, Tony said:

 

 

 

 

I would say "Bye-Bye" but we all know you'll be back.....

lmao, Tony laying the smackdown. iwin4prep, this is just sad.

[Chicago White Sox]

3 hours ago, bmags said:

This is actually a frustrating part of the board.

There are so many facets to roster building in baseball which is what makes it so interesting.

But when a group of posters criticizes the Sox taking off the 2018 intl period it gets pushed off as whining because Sox have had success with Cuban market. And if Sox aren’t the worst at something you can’t criticize it.

But then when a trade like this happens, it shows the downside of not getting that talent - we didn’t have a comparable talent package because we signed Yolbert Sanchez instead.

And then it’s just “well if we would have traded for Darvish we’d have whined because we gave up X”. 
 

The Sox have had a lot more success in so many avenues than where they were in 2016. The draft, player development, international - all better.

But they still hold back and it has repercussions like this - where a good player is available for a reasonable cost and they missed out on getting the pieces needed two years ago had they just spent $1 million more on a budget that should just be an automatic like item.

Great post.  If we had signed a couple 16 year olds instead of Yogurt and then used our pool dollars we ended up trading to the Rangers to save Uncle Jerry a few bucks, we’d probably have three of the four pieces needed right there to land Darvish.  I know it’s not necessarily that simple, but the ROI is insane on these 16 year old signings and foregoing bonus pool dollars reflect an organization not optimizing its resources because of Reinsdorf’s moral compass and/or financial risk aversion.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, Flash said:

Sox did not have comparable talent to match or exceed this package. Its possible Cease could have replaced Davies as headliner but the other 4 pieces are extremally tooled up teenagers with mature physiques (2 SS, 2CF). These kids are gonna be very good...just not for several years.

In what world is one year of Davies worth five years of Dylan Cease?

[chetkincaid]

So the argument today is Snell and Darvish vs Lynn and Keuchel? 

Interesting. 

[SonofaRoache]

6 minutes ago, chetkincaid said:

So the argument today is Snell and Darvish vs Lynn and Keuchel? 

Interesting. 

All I know is that I hate the Padres. Machado and Tatis and then the dude coming out and saying he is glad the Padres aren't the White Sox. Props to them for building that team, but screw them as well. 

[shakes]

2 hours ago, Harry Chappas said:

Dane Dunning became Shane Bieber after the Lynn trade and Lance Lynn became Lance Broadway.

I give credit to the Padres for building an amazing farm system which allowed them to make these moves.  They got the cubs to take four lottery tickets.

There is a decent enough chance that both Snell and Darvish don't pan out like they are being purported to do.

In their careers combined Darvish and Snell have thrown over 200 innings in a season once.  Lance Lynn has done it 3 times.

In their careers combined Darvish and Snell have started over 30 games in a season four times.  Lance Lynn has done it 5 times.

The Padres have the farm system depth to overcome both of the potential shortcomings of Snell and Darvish not many if any teams have this luxury. 

 

The difference is the Padres have a combined 6 seasons of control with the two new additions, 3 overlapping, and Clevinger coming back for one of them. This buys them time to keep developing their younger additions to the staff and increases their chances for the next three years at a reasonable financial commitment. 

The issue some had with Dunning for Lynn is it is a one year band-aid for a pitcher some think could've been a long term contributor to the rotation. I don't think the Sox should've been in on Snell, but I would've liked them to be in on Darvish.

The game is also changing and many front offices don't value 200 innings the way many of us are used to, and teams are having a lot of pitching success without the workhorse mentality. The Sox already have Giolito, Kuechel, and Lynn to eat innings. You don't need 4 or 5 200+ innings guys. 

 

[GreenSox]

2 hours ago, EloyJenkins said:

If Lynn reups for another season or 2...the Sox got a better deal. Sox need innings. 

I tell myself that that's implicit in this trade:  that the Sox think that they can hold onto Lynn for 3 years so they are giving up 6/3 not 6/1.
But I've heard that story before. 
It worked out with Freddie Garcia (although I think they pretty much knew they could sign him when they made the trade) : he pitched well and was extended.  Hopefully it happens again.
Although I thought the Sox gave up too much for a rent, I prefer Lynn to Darvish.

Edited December 29, 2020 by GreenSox

[he gone.]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

I like Lynn more than Snell this is true. But I definitely have jealousy of a team  comparable to us in the rebuild going out and netting Clevinger, Snell and Darvish in a three month period and still being relatively whole in the farm in terms of top guys.

I'd rank it (leaving off clev, I was a big fan but that injury would be a huge hit to sox)
1. Darvish (like contract and talent, best pitcher of bunch)
2. Lynn
3. Snell

Definitely wish we were talking about upgrading with a Snell/Darvish for our next pitcher and not Quintana, who we are hoping gets us an Ivan Nova 2019 year. That's our dream big.

This. I mean, some of the moves the Padres made may be looked back as meh, but at least on the surface and in the shorter term (1-4 years) they are great. The fact they have all the ammo left that they do is crazy. 

I like Patino a bunch & I've had the guess that he'll end up being the top of Gore, Paddack, Patino trio -- but who cares when you just picked up 3? 4? years of Snell at that contract price. They also gave up some other pieces there .. but when you have Tatis, Machado, etc. it's not exactly like you need "down the road" bats, especially when you can go out and acquire decent ones at a reasonable price in the free market. 

Clevinger for Naylor, Quantrill and some younger SS, IF, arm seemed like a crazy lopsided trade. 

To pick up Darvish for a bunch of maybe nice pieces that are young? Again you get a controlled pitcher for 3 years who gives you top 10 upside at Top 30 salary. 

The only trade i didnt get from their perspective was the Austin Nola for Ty France and Trammell ... that one seemed to be in Mariners favor. 

 

I mean to me they pulled off getting Clev, Darvish, Snell for the equivalent of  (best attempt):

Darvish: Kelley, Reynaldo, Cespedes, Burger 

Snell: Kopech, Thompson, Adolfo, Lambert

Clevinger: Stiever, Rutherford, Burdi, etc.

 

A lot tougher to matchup those trades than i expected ... but still, point is they were able to get all of those guys without giving up Robert/Vaughn/Eloy/Madrigal/Crochet, etc. It's just a game changing haul while leaving a still very full cupboard of top prospects to get a meaningful bat if they want. 

[hi8is]

1 minute ago, GreenSox said:

I tell myself that that's implicit in this trade:  that the Sox think that they can hold onto Lynn for 3 years so they are giving up 6/3 not 6/1.
But I've heard that story before. 
It worked out with Freddie Garcia (although I think they pretty much knew they could sign him when they made the trade) : he pitched well and was extended.  Hopefully it happens again.

Is Lynn married to Tony LaRussa’s wife’s cousin?

[southsider2k5]

3 hours ago, Flash said:

Sox did not have comparable talent to match or exceed this package. Its possible Cease could have replaced Davies as headliner but the other 4 pieces are extremally tooled up teenagers with mature physiques (2 SS, 2CF). These kids are gonna be very good...just not for several years.

I would take Dylan Cease in 2021 over Davies, let alone past the fact that Davies will be a free agent after this year.  Sure he had a great 2020, but his career doesn't really show that is who he really is.

[shakes]

4 hours ago, bmags said:

This is actually a frustrating part of the board.

There are so many facets to roster building in baseball which is what makes it so interesting.

But when a group of posters criticizes the Sox taking off the 2018 intl period it gets pushed off as whining because Sox have had success with Cuban market. And if Sox aren’t the worst at something you can’t criticize it.

But then when a trade like this happens, it shows the downside of not getting that talent - we didn’t have a comparable talent package because we signed Yolbert Sanchez instead.

And then it’s just “well if we would have traded for Darvish we’d have whined because we gave up X”. 
 

The Sox have had a lot more success in so many avenues than where they were in 2016. The draft, player development, international - all better.

But they still hold back and it has repercussions like this - where a good player is available for a reasonable cost and they missed out on getting the pieces needed two years ago had they just spent $1 million more on a budget that should just be an automatic like item.

 

26 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Great post.  If we had signed a couple 16 year olds instead of Yogurt and then used our pool dollars we ended up trading to the Rangers to save Uncle Jerry a few bucks, we’d probably have three of the four pieces needed right there to land Darvish.  I know it’s not necessarily that simple, but the ROI is insane on these 16 year old signings and foregoing bonus pool dollars reflect an organization not optimizing its resources because of Reinsdorf’s moral compass and/or financial risk aversion.

@bmags - this is so well put. This is where I think the Reinsdorf cheap/stubborn reputation is really warranted. People are saying SD can do this because they are in the position to give up depth and lottery tickets. The Sox aren't there because they have chosen not to be, and they've shown some aptitude to identify this type of talent, they just don't do it in the volume that is needed. 

I've always thought the Sox would be great candidates to benefit from the Darvish type salary dumps at lower prospect cost, like the Astros did so well. It's just disappointing they don't seem willing to go there, particularly if they are never going to go after top free agent pitching.