Trade Whispers - Starting Pitchers

[bmags]

Sounds like we’ll need SP market to sort out a bit more.

[Rounding_Third]

44 minutes ago, Rey21 said:

If you trade Vaughn for Castillo that’s telling teams to GTFO the way its the Sox championship to lose with a DH signing as well. I endorse trading Vaughn for Castillo but they won’t do it.

Yeah man, for a few years.  For me this trade would be, Cinn say yes, I say "let's do it" but when ready to push button. go ummm wait, let me think about this again but then would probably follow through.  lol 

[Dam8610]

54 minutes ago, Rey21 said:

If you trade Vaughn for Castillo that’s telling teams to GTFO the way its the Sox championship to lose with a DH signing as well. I endorse trading Vaughn for Castillo but they won’t do it.

That would be incomprehensibly stupid.

[Rounding_Third]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You took me too literally. I know in one thread I said "Our new DH ladies and gentlemen" as a joke . I had to look him up because I couldn't remember who he was. As far as liking Yermin. I just like him , his story, and I have been following him since the Sox picked him up  That doesn't mean I want him as our DH this year. He could've got a chance for the last 2 years and didn't . Him and Collins were the reason why I never wanted Encarnacion. In 2019,  the last rebuild year, him and Collins could've got more AB's but Mercedes got none as Welington Castillo and other garbage continued to get AB's.

oh, lol, yeah, I did.  Yep that was the one.

Agreed, the Sox didn't let Yermin and Collins grind it out back then.  McCann came along, too, and took off and kind of interfered with any other plans.  Speaking of which, I didn't like the Grandal signing at the time.  I like Grandal but was unnecessary.  Thought so then.  Both great catchers but could have signed McCann for 3/4 years, 6-8 AAV and saved 10-12m cap space.  Silly, stupid move.   The Sox overplay the "big splash" way too much.  KW ego gets in the way of logical thinking.       

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, Rounding_Third said:

oh, lol, yeah, I did.  Yep that was the one.

Agreed, the Sox didn't let Yermin and Collins grind it out back then.  McCann came along, too, and took off and kind of interfered with any other plans.  Speaking of which, I didn't like the Grandal signing at the time.  I like Grandal but was unnecessary.  Thought so then.  Both great catchers but could have signed McCann for 3/4 years, 6-8 AAV and saved 10-12m cap space.  Silly, stupid move.   The Sox overplay the "big splash" way too much.  KW ego gets in the way of logical thinking.       

Ah, yes. Back to the KW evil incarnate when they make moves people dont like.

[Rey21]

9 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

That would be incomprehensibly stupid.

I don’t agree though, Castillo is one of the 15 best pitchers in baseball and gives you arguably the best rotation in the game then and gives you a shot to win a World Series not only this year but for the next 3 years. Vaughn may be really damn good but he still needs some time and could end up being a bust. 

[Rounding_Third]

11 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

That would be incomprehensibly stupid.

Dad?  Is that you?

[Rey21]

28 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Id focus just on gallen, tho i would love marte... doubt they give up both

but gallen marte for kopech madrigal and much more for starters

probably need to add crochet or vaughn or something to it as well

 

gallen is top notch

 

Yeah one of the foodies or NSC said a trade for Gallen was on the table with Madrigal included but turned down, would love to see Gallen slot into the 3rd SP spot 

[SoxBlanco]

1 minute ago, Rey21 said:

I don’t agree though, Castillo is one of the 15 best pitchers in baseball and gives you arguably the best rotation in the game then and gives you a shot to win a World Series not only this year but for the next 3 years. Vaughn may be really damn good but he still needs some time and could end up being a bust. 

Can we keep Vaughn and give up Kopech, Madrigal, and Heuer instead?

[pcq]

18 minutes ago, aeichhor said:

 

U$ing the same logic with Eaton Jose should be worth about $8M but maybe they could offer two years. He is a decent bounceback if he can put the knives down. 

[Rey21]

8 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Can we keep Vaughn and give up Kopech, Madrigal, and Heuer instead?

My guess is they’re probably asking for Vaughn and Kopech which is a lot for most people but Castillo is really damn good. 

[nitetrain8601]

Just another reason why overpaying for Eaton, especially so early in FA was pure stupidity. You could've had that deal once spring training started, because no one was scrambling to go sign him. Hell at this rate, you probably could've had Joc Pederson at 6.

 

On another note, the way you people talk here about Vaughn reminds me of how people talked about Joe Borchard, Brandon McCarthy, Ryan Sweeney, etc. Vaughn is just a prospect. The Sox have multiple prospects/young players left. If I could go Vaughn and a bunch of lower level prospects instead of getting rid of our projected starting 2B and potential ace starter, then you do it.

[Rey21]

1 minute ago, nitetrain8601 said:

Just another reason why overpaying for Eaton, especially so early in FA was pure stupidity. You could've had that deal once spring training started, because no one was scrambling to go sign him. Hell at this rate, you probably could've had Joc Pederson at 6.

 

On another note, the way you people talk here about Vaughn reminds me of how people talked about Joe Borchard, Brandon McCarthy, Ryan Sweeney, etc. Vaughn is just a prospect. The Sox have multiple prospects/young players left. If I could go Vaughn and a bunch of lower level prospects instead of getting rid of our projected starting 2B and potential ace starter, then you do it.

Exactly my thoughts although I think Vaughn is gonna take but I’d gladly take Luis Castillo over Andrew Vaughn 

[Rounding_Third]

3 minutes ago, Rey21 said:

Exactly my thoughts although I think Vaughn is gonna take but I’d gladly take Luis Castillo over Andrew Vaughn 

Yep, we know Castillo's a beast, we assume Vaughn will be.  That alone is why I would do it, too.  The 3 years of team control/arb with Castillo is a sweet bonus. 

[GREEDY]

43 minutes ago, aeichhor said:

 

 

It definitely appears that our front office wanted to strike early and get *their* guys.  We paid more than a fair price for Lynn, Eaton and Hendriks, it will be interesting to see how the remainder of the off season plays out but I don't think you could say we were value shopping with any of those moves.  

It is surprising that they don't have a strong preference for any of the remaining veteran starters where one would think a slight overpay would lock *their* guy up.  Of all spots to value shop this one makes the least sense to me.  It makes me wonder if they were in on any of the starters that signed early for good money like Morton, Minor or Smyly?  

[Rey21]

4 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:

Yep, we know Castillo's a beast, we assume Vaughn will be.  That alone is why I would do it, too.  The 3 years of team control/arb with Castillo is a sweet bonus. 

Yeah Castillo gives them the best rotation in baseball in my opinion but to beat out the Padres, Rays, Dodgers package Sox are gonna have to give up a lot but again I think it’s worth it 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, aeichhor said:

 

While I’d expect them in that range for a starter, I’m a little confused as to why they’d have a have a hard cap unless all they have left is $8M or they are already committed to a bat like La Stella.

[Orlando]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

While I’d expect them in that range for a starter, I’m a little confused as to why they’d have a have a hard cap unless all they have left is $8M or they are already committed to a bat like La Stella.

That’s what I’m thinking. Reminds me of the Eaton over Brantley stuff. They said signed Eaton to afford Hendriks. Maybe they can only spare 8mil to get that extra bat they want.

[Chicago White Sox]

32 minutes ago, nitetrain8601 said:

Just another reason why overpaying for Eaton, especially so early in FA was pure stupidity. You could've had that deal once spring training started, because no one was scrambling to go sign him. Hell at this rate, you probably could've had Joc Pederson at 6.

 

On another note, the way you people talk here about Vaughn reminds me of how people talked about Joe Borchard, Brandon McCarthy, Ryan Sweeney, etc. Vaughn is just a prospect. The Sox have multiple prospects/young players left. If I could go Vaughn and a bunch of lower level prospects instead of getting rid of our projected starting 2B and potential ace starter, then you do it.

I’m not a huge fan of the Eaton deal, but he wasn’t waiting around to spring training as he already had solid offers on the table.   And no way in hell are you getting Joc for $6M when Schwarber got $10M.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

22 minutes ago, nitetrain8601 said:

Just another reason why overpaying for Eaton, especially so early in FA was pure stupidity. You could've had that deal once spring training started, because no one was scrambling to go sign him. Hell at this rate, you probably could've had Joc Pederson at 6.

 

On another note, the way you people talk here about Vaughn reminds me of how people talked about Joe Borchard, Brandon McCarthy, Ryan Sweeney, etc. Vaughn is just a prospect. The Sox have multiple prospects/young players left. If I could go Vaughn and a bunch of lower level prospects instead of getting rid of our projected starting 2B and potential ace starter, then you do it.

I try not to get to attached to prospects. I don't think Vaughn and Crochet are untouchable even though the Sox might. Crochet is far away from becoming a starter and Vaughn might not be a good defensive 1st baseman so he COULD be viewed as 1B/DH. I know his hitting potential is elite but right now the Sox are scrambling for starting pitching. There's no guarantee Cease, or Kopech can emerge or that Lynn is being offered an extension or if he should be. Keuchel and Lynn are older and regression could happen quickly to an ERA of 4+. We shouldn't be so quick to condemn Lopez to the BP . The Sox need every one of those young starting pitchers to increase the odds that one or more of them can discover the good pitcher within.

Right now I am not at all concerned about the lineup with or without a DH or backup catcher acquisition, If anything derails the team it will be the starting pitching. Maybe not this year but it may come quicker than many anticipate. 

[ptatc]

18 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I try not to get to attached to prospects. I don't think Vaughn and Crochet are untouchable even though the Sox might. Crochet is far away from becoming a starter and Vaughn might not be a good defensive 1st baseman so he COULD be viewed as 1B/DH. I know his hitting potential is elite but right now the Sox are scrambling for starting pitching. There's no guarantee Cease, or Kopech can emerge or that Lynn is being offered an extension or if he should be. Keuchel and Lynn are older and regression could happen quickly to an ERA of 4+. We shouldn't be so quick to condemn Lopez to the BP . The Sox need every one of those young starting pitchers to increase the odds that one or more of them can discover the good pitcher within.

Right now I am not at all concerned about the lineup with or without a DH or backup catcher acquisition, If anything derails the team it will be the starting pitching. Maybe not this year but it may come quicker than many anticipate. 

Starting pitching is almost always the primary factor in determining a good season.

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

Starting pitching is almost always the primary factor in determining a good season.

Last year, 3 of the final 4 teams used their bullpen the most. But I agree with you. If they play 162, the more you get out of your starters the better you will be.

[nitetrain8601]

56 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m not a huge fan of the Eaton deal, but he wasn’t waiting around to spring training as he already had solid offers on the table.   And no way in hell are you getting Joc for $6M when Schwarber got $10M.

Teams were not going to sign Eaton before Schwarber, Pederson, Dahl, etc. Dahl at 8 million (double what he got) would've been a much better target. No one was going to sign Eaton first. 

55 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I try not to get to attached to prospects. I don't think Vaughn and Crochet are untouchable even though the Sox might. Crochet is far away from becoming a starter and Vaughn might not be a good defensive 1st baseman so he COULD be viewed as 1B/DH. I know his hitting potential is elite but right now the Sox are scrambling for starting pitching. There's no guarantee Cease, or Kopech can emerge or that Lynn is being offered an extension or if he should be. Keuchel and Lynn are older and regression could happen quickly to an ERA of 4+. We shouldn't be so quick to condemn Lopez to the BP . The Sox need every one of those young starting pitchers to increase the odds that one or more of them can discover the good pitcher within.

Right now I am not at all concerned about the lineup with or without a DH or backup catcher acquisition, If anything derails the team it will be the starting pitching. Maybe not this year but it may come quicker than many anticipate. 

100% agreed. To me, if you could get away with giving up only one top prospect as opposed to multiple top prospects for starting pitching, you do it. Like you, I fear regression for our staff. Giolito was unable to throw to Grandal last year. Keuchel had a good year last year, but that doesn't quite erase the previous few years. Kopech, whom I have high hopes for, is still a prospect first, and coming back from injury. Crochet is two years away from being a SP IMO. Cease, I hope, can turn it around. But wasn't Cease Minor League Pitcher of the Year? We saw how he has struggled. Same can happen for Vaughn hitting. 

[RagahRagah]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

While I’d expect them in that range for a starter, I’m a little confused as to why they’d have a have a hard cap unless all they have left is $8M or they are already committed to a bat like La Stella.

 I sure hope so. I think a lot of people will roll their eyes at me for saying this, but if this is all we are left with for any remaining moves, I think I have to rate this off season as a disappointment and say that we will have some major concerns going into the season unless the Sox can make multiple more thrifty trades, and hopefully some better than giving up 6 years of control of a pretty good prospect for a 34-year-old for one year.

Edited January 16, 2021 by RagahRagah

[poppysox]

3 hours ago, Rounding_Third said:

Don't think this will happen.  Payroll already too high.  Sitting at ~$131m and they've hinted at ~$140m max.  And they should spend a few mil more on DH & C.  Doubt if they go past low $140's and that's a stretch.   

Personally, can't stand Bauer.  Not enough clubhouse walls for all the mirrors he needs.  Another Brice Harper.   Hendriks at the opposite end of that spectrum; added bonus with his signing.    

I like this Hendriks observation.