Trade Whispers - Starting Pitchers

[EloyJenkins]

2 minutes ago, Rey21 said:

I wouldn’t say the Yankees haven’t improved, if healthy Taillon and Kluber could be really big additions - those are big ifs but what if Lynn/Kuechel/Abreu regress, Moncada is 2018 Moncada, Robert goes through a sophomore slump, Eloy is hurt and out for a bit, Cease and or Kopech don’t turn a corner, Eaton doesn’t provide anything,  Crochett or Bummer get hurt again (Regardless of how either is feeling now, a nerve issue for Bummer and forearm issue for Crochett is troubling) the Sox aren’t prepared for any of that. We were told the money would be spent to solidify this thing, they have an opportunity to shut us up and step on the gas pedal but instead they’re tapping on it. 

Kluber replaces tanaka (I'd rather have tanaka given kluber's injury) and talilon is coming off a 2nd TJ. They are flat ...and according to resident negative Nancy...you regress automatically if you are over 30.. and yankees have many over 30.

[RagahRagah]

4 minutes ago, Rey21 said:

I wouldn’t say the Yankees haven’t improved, if healthy Taillon and Kluber could be really big additions - those are big ifs but what if Lynn/Kuechel/Abreu regress, Moncada is 2018 Moncada, Robert goes through a sophomore slump, Eloy is hurt and out for a bit, Cease and or Kopech don’t turn a corner, Eaton doesn’t provide anything,  Crochett or Bummer get hurt again (Regardless of how either is feeling now, a nerve issue for Bummer and forearm issue for Crochett is troubling) the Sox aren’t prepared for any of that. We were told the money would be spent to solidify this thing, they have an opportunity to shut us up and step on the gas pedal but instead they’re tapping on it. 

There is SO much that can easily go wrong and people just don't want to accept how likely they are to. 

Sox fans of all people should have enough wisdom to curb their expectations. A lot will have to go right this year to meet these (possibly fantastical) expectations. 

Edited January 26, 2021 by RagahRagah

[Rey21]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So you’re question is what if everything possible goes wrong?

No, if any of the above play out they’re not prepared

[RagahRagah]

7 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

Kluber replaces tanaka (I'd rather have tanaka given kluber's injury) and talilon is coming off a 2nd TJ. They are flat ...and according to resident negative Nancy...you regress automatically if you are over 30.. and yankees have many over 30.

I never said this. This is why some of you are so tiresome. You aren't listening to what I'm actually saying, resort to strawman, don't even try to actually understand the actual points or outright ignore them.

Find where I said being over 30 automatically equals regression. You extrapolating bullshit arguments and not actually imploring me for my point of view just proves my point further. Lynn being 34 doesn't help but there's a lot more to it, and I even underlined one such reason for Dallas.

If you don't know what someone's actual argument is, try asking them. Or just paying attention.

Instead of wanting to just be right and get points, try actually understanding what you're actually responding to.

Edited January 26, 2021 by RagahRagah

[EloyJenkins]

Just now, RagahRagah said:

I never said this. This is why some of you are so tiresome. You aren't listening to what I'm actually saying, resort to strawman, don't even try to actually understand the actual points of outright ignore them.

Find where the fuck I said being over 30 automatically equals regression. You extrapolating bullshit arguments just proves my point further. 

If you don't know what someone's actual argument is, try asking them. Or just paying attention.

Instead of wanting to just be right and get points, try actually understanding what you're actually responding to.

You said Lynn and Keuchel are both due for regression without giving any reason why. Post one positive thing you've said this off-season. One.

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, Rey21 said:

No, if any of the above play out they’re not prepared

Come on man, you’re suggesting we can’t survive even one road block?  Our depth isn’t good, but let’s not act like everything went right last year.  The offense can endure some setbacks, so can the bullpen.  The rotation is the most concerning area and it better be addressed.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

14 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

It's just that some people refuse to acknowledge what goes on and go overboard with with expectations despite so many obvious reasons they shouldn't. 

Expecting this to automatically be a division winner, 95+ wins and deep playoff run team is a little overconfident and I explained the reasons why. As expected, the guilty parties don't even want to actually explore or even read those reasons.

Being confident is fine. But based on what we saw last year, there are a lot of things that are gonna have to go right this year. The idea Lance Lynn will make this a 95 win team, ignoring all the other questionable factors, is pretty laughable.

But that's OK, no big deal. Pretty much everyone knows the facts of our owner, the pandemic, labor strife etc. There's nothing wrong with optimism, you probably live longer supporting other people dreams than you do squashing them. Baseball is the sport where hope springs eternal.

I was cautioning people about taking for granted we would automatically make the playoffs or that too many were penciling in Vaughn to be a great hitter too soon. You make your point and move on . This isn't a court of law where you are trying to convince a jury to acquit or convict . There was something that people used to say a lot on this board when people got overly serious. It was a movie quote from "Stripes".

Lighten up, Francis !

Edited January 26, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[RagahRagah]

Just now, EloyJenkins said:

You said Lynn and Keuchel are both due for regression without giving any reason why. Post one positive thing you've said this off-season. One.

You saying I gave no reason proves my point. You aren't paying attention. What I have said that is positive has 0 to do with the point. Simply saying I am negative is lazy. It is possible there is good reason for it. You're looking for an attitude that suits yours rather than substance. 

(I was happy about the acquisition of Hendriks, but anyway)

[EloyJenkins]

Just now, RagahRagah said:

You saying I gave no reason proves my point. You aren't paying attention. What I have said that is positive has 0 to do with the point. Simply saying I am negative is lazy. It is possible there is good reason for it. You're looking for an attitude that suits yours rather than substance. 

(I was happy about the acquisition of Hendriks, but anyway)

Hey, positivity! Love it. You should really try it sometime. It's nice 

[RagahRagah]

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

But that's OK, no big deal. Pretty much everyone knows the facts of our owner, the pandemic, labor strife etc. There's nothing wrong with optimism, you probably live longer supporting other people dreams than you do squashing them. Baseball is the sport where hope springs eternal.

I was cautioning people about taking for granted we would automatically make the playoffs or that too many were penciling in Vaughn to be a great hitter too soon. You make your point and move on . This isn't a court of law where you are trying to convince a jury to acquit or convict . There was something that people used to say a lot on this board when people got overly serious. It was a movie quote from "Stripes".

 

I do thank you for at least being reasonable with your responses, even when opposing my viewpoint. Not getting enough of that. 

[Rey21]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

Come on man, you’re suggesting we can’t survive even one road block?  Our depth isn’t good, but let’s not act like everything went right last year.  The offense can endure some setbacks, so can the bullpen.  The rotation is the most concerning area and it better be addressed.

I think because each of the above players I mentioned are so important and the lack of depth is so bare that yes any of the above would be a major roadblock. That’s why for me it was to load up on another elite position player/pitcher to solidify this thing and make up for the possibility of a setback. 

[Rey21]

9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Come on man, you’re suggesting we can’t survive even one road block?  Our depth isn’t good, but let’s not act like everything went right last year.  The offense can endure some setbacks, so can the bullpen.  The rotation is the most concerning area and it better be addressed.

For me Springer/Ozuna allows Abreu/Moncada/Eloy/Robert to hit a speed bump and you not falter too much or signing Bauer allows Lynn/Kuechel/Cease/Kopech the same thing. 
This goes for every team in the league but so much has to go right for the Sox this year and it very well can but me personally I think they need one more BIG addition to really lock down the AL 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

The threads from last off season is pretty much the same. The big discussions were which pitcher we would get Wheeler, Ryu, Bumgarner, Keuchel or Ryu.

I started saying we needed 2 guys and most thought I was crazy. I wasn't leaving enough room for the kids to pitch in what many thought we a development year.  I was like hey the window is open right now. Then at the end of the year everyone was pissed we didn't have another starter.

I think we all agree we need another starter. We all wish it was Bauer . The Sox will get someone . They have to. They know the risks coming into a long season from a season where pitchers didn't come close to a normal workload. There are going to be problems. They will add one more guy for the rotation and probably another one on a minor league deal. It might be the last deal we see for someone who will be on the 26 man roster but we shall see.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Feels like the longer it takes to add a starting pitcher, the more likely it will come via trade.  That is not to suggest it will be a Burnes type pitcher, but I could us acquiring a back-end piece and/or reclamation project on the cheap that they prefer over the remaining free agents.  I know Harold threw out Jon Gray and I can’t imagine he’d cost much after a disastrous 2020 and with one year remaining.  I can’t imagine people would be happy about that, but I could see him being a guy the Sox have always loved.

[southsider2k5]

10 hours ago, RagahRagah said:

Not sure what any of those teams have to do with the White Sox or our regression candidates. Who are the Yankees regression candidates? They have always been a more well-rounded team than us. You're only shooting yourself in the foot by trying to compare us.

And you aside, I can see I'm already at the point where certain people won't even actually counter the points I'm making, stop responding and just click their stupid little laugh emoticons. If you can't even bother to acknowledge the points someone is making, then just don't post. It gets tiresome. Your little laugh reaction is just quiet concession because you can't actually argue the points someone is making and instead just argue completely around them. Which means you have no merit. For all the intelligence discussion here, there is also a lot of flat out laziness and lack of actually countering the actual things people are fucking saying. When you have to do that, it's a sign you might be wrong.

There are plenty of reasons to be skeptical of this team this year. Get over it.

Again, the only ones who will regress are the White Sox, right?  This is exactly the point.  Time after time, point after point, it comes down to the same boilerplate with you.

[RagahRagah]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Again, the only ones who will regress are the White Sox, right?  This is exactly the point.  Time after time, point after point, it comes down to the same boilerplate with you.

I made a few specific points regarding why they are regression candidates. 

Your response had zero premise behind it. "What if anyone regresses?" It was almost bordering on childish. You know better.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, RagahRagah said:

I made a few specific points regarding why they are regression candidates. 

Your response had zero premise behind it. "What if anyone regresses?" It was almost bordering on childish. You know better.

Yes, I should know better than to expect anything else but pessimism for the Sox.

[RagahRagah]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

Yes, I should know better than to expect anything else but pessimism for the Sox.

Here I was saying that I made specific points and again, you aren't even going to try, or inquire.

Wish I understood why this is so hard for people. Stay focused and stop avoiding the relevant points. 

I had reasons for making this claim. You didn't, you just wanted to invalidate my argument without even knowing what it was, LOL.

[iWiN4PreP]

1 minute ago, RagahRagah said:

Here I was saying that I made specific points and again, you aren't even going to try, or inquire.

Wish I understood why this is so hard for people. Stay focused and stop avoiding the relevant points. 

I had reasons for making this claim. You didn't, you just wanted to invalidate my argument without even knowing what it was, LOL.

There's a few classic posters on the site that tend to do that quite often. I have them on ignore as they rack up ton's of posts with little to no quality. 

With that being said, southsider hasn't been one of those posters yet... 

[southsider2k5]

Just now, RagahRagah said:

Here I was saying that I made specific points and again, you aren't even going to try, or inquire.

Wish I understood why this is so hard for people. Stay focused and stop avoiding the relevant points. 

I had reasons for making this claim. You didn't, you just wanted to invalidate my argument without even knowing what it was, LOL.

It is the same tired argument over and over again, we get it.  We all get it.  Everything is wrong with the Sox, nothing is wrong with anyone else.  It is so tired that even in a post that had nothing to do with you specifically, you felt called out and compelled to respond to start this side tread.  As much you keep trying to deflect this to everyone else, it isn't.  There is a reason why person after person keeps calling you on this, and even when no one is talking to you, you feel guilty enough to respond.  You keep talking about "relevant points", but that is just a code for trying to get people to ignore your biases on this topic, when they are the most relevant point.  Literally everything filters through that bias, which is why everything is pessimistic.

[RagahRagah]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

It is the same tired argument over and over again, we get it.  We all get it.  Everything is wrong with the Sox, nothing is wrong with anyone else.  It is so tired that even in a post that had nothing to do with you specifically, you felt called out and compelled to respond to start this side tread.  As much you keep trying to deflect this to everyone else, it isn't.  There is a reason why person after person keeps calling you on this, and even when no one is talking to you, you feel guilty enough to respond.  You keep talking about "relevant points", but that is just a code for trying to get people to ignore your biases on this topic, when they are the most relevant point.  Literally everything filters through that bias, which is why everything is pessimistic.

All you keep doing is lazily mischaracterizing or dismissing my arguments without actually analyzing them.

It's so easy to say "You're just negative" instead of actually listening to the reasons being given and counter them.

There is no "bias." You're just lazily deflecting everything I'm saying. I gave several bullet points on why skepticism is justified this year and those bullet points are all 100% legitimate. 

If you can't actually individually address my points then why are you even responding? You completely ignored what I said about Dallas and Lynn. You don't even know what my argument IS and yet are trying to say it is unfounded. That's so ridiculous. 

 

*EDIT* Notice another laugh emoji without a response. Shit is rich.

Edited January 26, 2021 by RagahRagah

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, RagahRagah said:

All you keep doing is lazily mischaracterizing or dismissing my arguments without actually analyzing them.

It's so easy to say "You're just negative" instead of actually listening to the reasons being given and counter them.

There is no "bias." You're just lazily deflecting everything I'm saying. I gave several bullet points on why skepticism is justified this year and those bullet points are all 100% legitimate. 

If you can't actually individually address my points then why are you even responding? You completely ignored what I said about Dallas and Lynn. You don't even know what my argument IS and yet are trying to say it is unfounded. That's so ridiculous. 

 

*EDIT* Notice another laugh emoji without a response. Shit is rich.

So much time has been wasted on these "arguments", which is why we are at this stage.  You bring up Dallas and Lynn, like this are the only two players on the team, which again goes to the pessimism bias.  This roster is deeper and better than last year.  This is a young roster with star and superstar potential all over it.  There are WAY more players poised for breakouts and gains, combined with the HUGE fall back by Cleveland and Minnesota's slide in talent, at least to this point, yet Lynn and Dallas are all you want to talk about.  Even in Lynn's case he doesn't have to be peak Lynn to still enact a HUGE gain over what  we had in his slot in 2020 and years prior.  But all we hear about is regression over last year.  It is bias and pessimism.  It is only telling the bad side of the story and the worst case scenarios, and then trying to sell them as "realism" when realism is a 50th percentile occurrence, and not an outlier wing.  If someone where hear trying to talk about the Sox winning 115 games and the World Series, they could make "realistic" points about all of the things that could go right this season, but when you add up all of the chances of those individual points happening, it isn't "realism".

It's crazy, I pretty much HATED this off-season what the opportunity cost of what we left behind in terms of pushing ourselves to the top tier teams, but the unvarnished pessimism here is just uncalled for.  You can continue to think it is everyone else who has the problem, or you can see that when you are outnumbered to this extent to where you end up in these same arguments with a different person every day, you can reflect on it.

[ron883]

13 hours ago, RagahRagah said:

Not sure what any of those teams have to do with the White Sox or our regression candidates. Who are the Yankees regression candidates? They have always been a more well-rounded team than us. You're only shooting yourself in the foot by trying to compare us.

And you aside, I can see I'm already at the point where certain people won't even actually counter the points I'm making, stop responding and just click their stupid little laugh emoticons. If you can't even bother to acknowledge the points someone is making, then just don't post. It gets tiresome. Your little laugh reaction is just quiet concession because you can't actually argue the points someone is making and instead just argue completely around them. Which means you have no merit. For all the intelligence discussion here, there is also a lot of flat out laziness and lack of actually countering the actual things people are fucking saying. When you have to do that, it's a sign you might be wrong.

There are plenty of reasons to be skeptical of this team this year. Get over it.

I'm going out on a big time limb here, but I THINK people would stop laughing at your posts if you:

1. Stopped the constant complaining about people laughing at your posts. Obviously this will result in more people doing it...

2. Stopped acting like such a condescending douche in most of your posts.

*Eagerly waiting for a response about how I inaccurately used "constant" and "most" in my response*

Edited January 26, 2021 by ron883

[iWiN4PreP]

I don't know why this forum has anonymous likes/laughs/etc. Most forums I go to tell the users WHO liked/laughed at the post.

That would be a good forum upgrade IMO.

A lot of times I'm arguing/debating someone and they bring up a good point so I "like" their post and they might not know that I liked their post.

[RagahRagah]

31 minutes ago, ron883 said:

I'm going out on a big time limb here, but I THINK people would stop laughing at your posts if you:

1. Stopped the constant complaining about people laughing at your posts. Obviously this will result in more people doing it...

2. Stopped acting like such a condescending douche in most of your posts.

*Eagerly waiting for a response about how I inaccurately used "constant" and "most" in my response*

1. Let them continue making asses of themselves. That's fine. I will not stop pointing out how much it makes them look like one.

2. Simply stating that someone is entirely ignoring an argument they choose to respond to is not condescending. The vitriol coming back is worse.

*ironic thing said in asterisks after criticizing one for being "condescending"*