Madrigal could be ready for opening day

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, poppysox said:

That would require patience which is in very short supply on Soxtalk.

The person you are replying to has been registered here since 2004, and is posting here after a 10 year playoff drought and having the worst overall record in baseball from 2013-2018.

[Capital G]

It's like some want him to fail. He gets on base and doesn't K.

He does need to improve his D and base running which i think he will based in his previous play. 

[Chicago White Sox]

19 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think this is counting the chickens before they hatch. If he maintains a 112 OPS it helps, but you are saying it’s pretty much guaranteed he’s a top ten 2b.

I’m not saying it’s guaranteed, but he’s got elite bat to ball skills and that showed in the majors last year.  Even with BABIP regression I expect him to be an above league average hitter and I expect the defense & base-running to play closer to expectations.  If so, that provides a pretty nice floor despite a lack of ceiling.  And this isn’t just my view, projections are also optimistic on him as Steamer & Zips have him at 2.6 & 2.2 fWAR respectively.  Obviously we need to see him do it over the course of a full season, but there is reason to believe he can be an above-average 2B as soon as next year and that’s valuable.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, fathom said:

Runs into outs you mean

but seriously, how about he shows he can field and run effectively before we say they’re strengths

So they were strengths when they drafted him and in the minors but now they aren't ? Maybe we should pay more attention to that rather than the handful of games he played before and after the injury occurred.. He was injured in only his 5th game of the season. So instead of being heralded for a fine season played in pain we focus on his shortcomings that may have been caused by that pain ?

[chitownsportsfan]

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The person you are replying to has been registered here since 2004, and is posting here after a 10 year playoff drought and having the worst overall record in baseball from 2013-2018.

lol, well damn.  it's a good time to be a sox fan honestly.  we're b****ing about shit that we haven't b****ed about in a decade.

[fathom]

6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

So they were strengths when they drafted him and in the minors but now they aren't ? Maybe we should pay more attention to that rather than the handful of games he played before and after the injury occurred.. He was injured in only his 5th game of the season. So instead of being heralded for a fine season played in pain we focus on his shortcomings that may have been caused by that pain ?

He had similar base running issues in the minors as well. Also I noticed today that he seemed to say he struggled playing deep due to the shift. As we saw, he acted like he never saw a ball hit the lip before.  Hopefully he takes hundreds of ground balls this offseason as if he’s back in the shift for a lefty.  We should see huge improvements there.

Edited January 6, 2021 by fathom

[Jerksticks]

If he hits a ball in the air above 25-30 degrees he should be punched in the face immediately upon returning to the dugout.  So hard he never does it again. His balls above 30 degrees for the year should equal his strikeouts for the year.  

[Stinky Stanky]

18 minutes ago, tray said:

Madrigal is a perfect compliment to this White Sox line-up.  He waits for strikes, then invariably puts the ball in play instead of whiffing.  Then the power hitters come up and drive him in - classic bloop and a blast baseball where Madrigal is the bloop.

Nelson Fox who had a lifetime .288 batting average and averaged 2HR per year. I think Madrigal can become what Nellie was in all aspects of the game. Madrigal is a keeper. There is zero chance that he gets traded any time soon. 

The 2021 W Sox have a beautiful mix  of power, speed,  and smart contact hitting salted with  a bit of of bravado. Madrigal is part of a core that will make a run for the championship  for the next few seasons.

 

If one is to believe this site, he's been dangled in a trade offer.  I'm with you, but not 100%.  We have until the trade deadline to see what he is and if we need to move him to get some help elsewhere.

[Vulture]

51 minutes ago, NotHahn said:

Madrigal hit .340 and had a OBP of .376 in his rookie year. Eckstein never came close to those numbers in his whole career. Not sure why you would bring him up.

I’m sure there were numerous instances of him putting up those numbers in a hundred at bats. I remember Ozzie Guillen hitting .370 going into June one year.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, Stinky Stanky said:

If one is to believe this site, he's been dangled in a trade offer.  I'm with you, but not 100%.  We have until the trade deadline to see what he is and if we need to move him to get some help elsewhere.

I'm sure they've talked about him, because they've probably at least talked about everyone. That doesn't mean it would be a smart move for them, with their salary limits. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

He had similar base running issues in the minors as well. Also I noticed today that he seemed to say he struggled playing deep due to the shift. As we saw, he acted like he never saw a ball hit the lip before.  Hopefully he takes hundreds of ground balls this offseason as if he’s back in the shift for a lefty.  We should see huge improvements there.

I know he didn't steal bases as well as expected in the minors so I don't consider that a big deal since he probably wouldn't be ahead of guys who can really run like Anderson and Robert. Moncada was supposed to have blazing speed but he couldn't steal bases very well either once got got up here.

If you are referring specifically to outs going from 1st to 3rd or 2nd to home he might be a bit aggressive but also wasn't playing at 100% for all but 4 games. I also think when you don't like someone his mistakes stand out.

And I am disappointed in you. I used "heralded" and "shortcomings" as a lure to you and Harold . Peace , you know you're one of my favorites.

[Vulture]

Eckstien April 3-May 10, 2001. First 31 games of career:

116 PA, .337 BA, .419 OBp

Madrigal

109 PA, .340, .376

Looks like Eckstein not only came close to, but surpassed them to me.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Vulture

[Buehrle>Wood]

2 minutes ago, Vulture said:

Eckstien April 3-May 10, 2001. First 31 games of career:

116 PA, .337. .419 OBp

Madrigal

109 PA, .340, .370

Looks like Eckstein not only came close to, but surpassed them to me.

If Madrigal can put up 9+ war in his first two seasons like Eckstein, we got something cooking.

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I know he didn't steal bases as well as expected in the minors so I don't consider that a big deal since he probably wouldn't be ahead of guys who can really run like Anderson and Robert. Moncada was supposed to have blazing speed but he couldn't steal bases very well either once got got up here.

If you are referring specifically to outs going from 1st to 3rd or 2nd to home he might be a bit aggressive but also wasn't playing at 100% for all but 4 games. I also think when you don't like someone his mistakes stand out.

And I am disappointed in you. I used "heralded" and "shortcomings" as a lure to you and Harold . Peace , you know you're one of my favorites.

Frankly, I would be somewhat disappointed if Madrigal can't steal a decent number of bases. He's going to be hitting what, 8th or 9th, so if he gets on it is literally going to be Anderson, Robert, and Moncada following him? That's going to be one of the ways he can be a more successful and valuable player. It doesn't have to be 50, but I'd really like to see 20+ at a fairly high rate. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, fathom said:

I think it’s more he’s far and away the most expendable of the major league core guys, and that someone like Wong or C. Hernandez would give you similar if not greater production.

This I can agree with since I have also said trading him isn't a terrible idea however if the Sox want to keep a young cheap core they cannot continue to keep trading that young cheap core when they also want to contend for multiple championships and at the same time limit payroll.  I think we are all terrified that the Sox will Sox away  true opportunities to win even one championship.

[poppysox]

43 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The person you are replying to has been registered here since 2004, and is posting here after a 10 year playoff drought and having the worst overall record in baseball from 2013-2018.

I agree...Hogan has shown patience as I believe my post indicated.  I have shown a fair amount of patience in my 60+year WS fandom.  My comment is aimed at those with zero patience.  The constant harping does nothing but depress the situation instead of being encouraged by the positive direction the club is obviously going in.

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

He had similar base running issues in the minors as well. Also I noticed today that he seemed to say he struggled playing deep due to the shift. As we saw, he acted like he never saw a ball hit the lip before.  Hopefully he takes hundreds of ground balls this offseason as if he’s back in the shift for a lefty.  We should see huge improvements there.

You mean players can learn from mistakes?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Frankly, I would be somewhat disappointed if Madrigal can't steal a decent number of bases. He's going to be hitting what, 8th or 9th, so if he gets on it is literally going to be Anderson, Robert, and Moncada following him? That's going to be one of the ways he can be a more successful and valuable player. It doesn't have to be 50, but I'd really like to see 20+ at a fairly high rate. 

I won't . Stealing isn't a big part of todays game. OBP and power is king. He just isn't fast enough to make a lot of attempts because he will get thrown out a lot. Leave stealing to the guys in the top 15% of sprint speed.

[Balta1701]

29 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I won't . Stealing isn't a big part of todays game. OBP and power is king. He just isn't fast enough to make a lot of attempts because he will get thrown out a lot. Leave stealing to the guys in the top 15% of sprint speed.

But since Madrigal doesn't have any power, stealing bases is a way to make up some of those missing bases. Perhaps his only way.

[RagahRagah]

I always love laughing at all the knee-jerk bad takes overreacting about Madrigal. Certainly there's no chance he will ever improve upon his rookie season.

You guys slay me.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

But since Madrigal doesn't have any power, stealing bases is a way to make up some of those missing bases. Perhaps his only way.

Maybe he hits more doubles. That's what I am hoping for anyway. But in today's games outs are too precious. It's why everyone hates sac. bunts. I can see some attempted steals by Madrigal late in games when the Sox are tied or down a run with 2 outs but that won't result in that many steal attempts. Not enough to get 20+ at a fairly high rate when in those situations Madrigal will be watched closely.

[TaylorStSox]

6 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

My favorite David Eckstein anecdote is the fact he was named to the Jewish All American Baseball team. David had to break the news he is not Jewish.

https://www.espn.com/talent/danpatrick/s/2002/0828/1424027.html

Nick Madrigal is listed as two inches taller than David.

Hahaha. That literally made me LOL. 

[poppysox]

7 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Maybe he hits more doubles. That's what I am hoping for anyway. But in today's games outs are too precious. It's why everyone hates sac. bunts. I can see some attempted steals by Madrigal late in games when the Sox are tied or down a run with 2 outs but that won't result in that many steal attempts. Not enough to get 20+ at a fairly high rate when in those situations Madrigal will be watched closely.

I agree with you about outs being precious.  Madrigal negativity confuses me because he makes fewer outs than most.

[South Side Hit Men]

28 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I agree with you about outs being precious.  Madrigal negativity confuses me because he makes fewer outs than most.

At the plate, in the small (no pun intended) sample size, you are correct. However, he cost the team by not following his coaches on multiple occasions resulting in bad outs on the basepaths, including the time he got injured running through the stop sign, getting gunned out at third by miles, and getting injured in the process.

Dumb on so many levels:  https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/nick-madrigal-exits-white-sox-game-apparent-injury-after-slide-third

[RagahRagah]

38 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Well that settles it. Players can't improve from their rookie half year.

Yeah, it is just so utterly ridiculous how quickly players get written off. It was hilarious how many people had to eat crow when Moncada finally grew into an MLB player.