vilehoopster Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 Okay, my last post on this topic. I am glad the Sox signed Hendriks. I am ecstatic that the Sox are willing to spend this type of money to win. But I am a loyalty guy and I hate to see Colome go; I hate to see it. Hendriks will come in and be great. I believe Colome would have been great (as I have debated the last couple pages). My first ever post on this forum was that the Sox should pay and keep Avi Garcia. The next day he was released, rather funny and ironic. It's really tough for me to see guys whom I cheer for and have helped the team go, so I argued/ debated that we should have kept Garcia and I argue that we should have kept Colome. Again, I love that we got Hendriks. There is no doubt that the Sox are clearly going for the World Series this year. The closer king is dead, Colome; long live the new closer king Hendriks. I'm behind him 100% God, oh God, I want the season to start soon. I am so excited for what is coming. I hope it isn't delayed too much. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 Just now, vilehoopster said: Okay, my last post on this topic. I am glad the Sox signed Hendriks. I am ecstatic that the Sox are willing to spend this type of money to win. But I am a loyalty guy and I hate to see Colome go; I hate to see it. Hendriks will come in and be great. I believe Colome would have been great (as I have debated the last couple pages). My first ever post on this forum was that the Sox should pay and keep Avi Garcia. The next day he was released, rather funny and ironic. It's really tough for me to see guys whom I cheer for and have helped the team go, so I argued/ debated that we should have kept Garcia and I argue that we should have kept Colome. Again, I love that we got Hendriks. There is no doubt that the Sox are clearly going for the World Series this year. The closer king is dead, Colome; long live the new closer king Hendriks. I'm behind him 100% God, oh God, I want the season to start soon. I am so excited for what is coming. I hope it isn't delayed too much. I would have been fine with bringing Colome back, but I think the body of evidence shows clearly that Hendriks is better. Personally I would have rather gone a bit cheaper on the back end, and spent that money in the rotation, but that isn't up to me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, vilehoopster said: God, oh God, I want the season to start soon. I am so excited for what is coming. Truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 38 minutes ago, vilehoopster said: Isn't save percentage far and away a better measure of success, the most important stat to look at? With a football game on the line next year, do you want a field-goal kicker who makes 95% of his kicks over the last two years or the one who has only made 90% of his kicks the last two years? You're saying you want the one that makes 90% of his kicks because he has a better left-foot placement percentage or because he has a better spin of the ball off the holders finger rate. I'm saying those other stats don't matter. What matters is how often the ball goes through the uprights. And for a closer, babip and velocity and k-rates don't matter. What matters is who is most likely to walk off the field with a win. And Hendricks is twice as likely to not be that guy as Colome. Can Colome do this Colome isn't throwing 50 pitches or getting a 3 inning save in the playoffs. Hendriks did both during the last postseason. The answer is no and the reason when Hendricks is more valuable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 lol, was just thinking about when Ryan McGuffey tweeted that he'd rather have hendriks for 3 years 50 million than 4 years 50 million (paraphrasing) and how that, in a way, is what is happening. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vilehoopster Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 6 minutes ago, BFirebird said: I know this comment wasn't directed at me, but for the record..I personally wasn't trying to gang up on you, I just think that Blown Save is a flawed stat especially when you start to include players that are pitching not in 9th inning and like southsider2k5 mentioned, not all save oppts are the same. I would also not worry about defense with Hendriks as much as I would with Colome because Hendriks strikes out nearly 2x the number of batters. Hendriks 12.09 K/9 career (13 K/9 last year) vs Colome 8 K/9 career (6.45 K/9 last year). Colome does a lot with smoke and mirrors which is just harder to count on over a long term vs a pitcher that misses a ton more bats. Hendriks is a big risk given his age, but as long as it doesn't preclude the Sox from making additional moves this is a plus addition, not a minus. Thank you for saying this. But really, I come here for the debate, the mental gymnastics for trying to prove my point and that I'm correct. I was doing pretty well for a while, but the point about getting a loss in earlier innings but not getting a save, I had no counter for that. Plus your point about how strikes out are more important with a, let's say, less-good defense behind you; is very true, and is a strong point why Hendriks is a better fit for the Sox next year than Colome. So welcome Hendriks and come on season and get here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 22 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: The problem is, if you aren't a closer, you don't get a chance to get saves, only to blow them, which skews the stats. Yep, anytime a big time middle reliever is being debated someone will look up their stats and post that they have 3 career saves and 8 blown saves as proof they will choke in big situations ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 minute ago, bmags said: lol, was just thinking about when Ryan McGuffey tweeted that he'd rather have hendriks for 3 years 50 million than 4 years 50 million (paraphrasing) and how that, in a way, is what is happening. Its either 4/54 or 13/54. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Its either 4/54 or 13/54. yeah I mean that's technically more accurate but less funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Its either 4/54 or 13/54. They could also look at year four and rip it up and go 2/20 if he is still going well at that point and wants another year or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, bmags said: lol, was just thinking about when Ryan McGuffey tweeted that he'd rather have hendriks for 3 years 50 million than 4 years 50 million (paraphrasing) and how that, in a way, is what is happening. Whoa, good call. Wild stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 14 minutes ago, bmags said: lol, was just thinking about when Ryan McGuffey tweeted that he'd rather have hendriks for 3 years 50 million than 4 years 50 million (paraphrasing) and how that, in a way, is what is happening. Lol. This contract is so weird. Really, he would have to be completely terrible to decline the option for the deferment savings right? Even if Bummer (or someone else) has replaced him as closer, you'd think he would still have some value in the middle/late innings unless his arm falls off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 minute ago, turnin' two said: Lol. This contract is so weird. Really, he would have to be completely terrible to decline the option for the deferment savings right? Even if Bummer (or someone else) has replaced him as closer, you'd think he would still have some value in the middle/late innings unless his arm falls off. Depends, that year is when a lot of our extensions pump up. And we are still paying Konerko deferred money and we usually don't even count it since it's a million a year. Could be attractive if he's just a set-up guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 Just now, bmags said: Depends, that year is when a lot of our extensions pump up. And we are still paying Konerko deferred money and we usually don't even count it since it's a million a year. Could be attractive if he's just a set-up guy. Yeah, I suppose so, and I didn't get out the TVM calculator, but it seems like it would be silly to cut him loose and still pay him, especially because even if he is just a guy, he'd still need to be replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, turnin' two said: Yeah, I suppose so, and I didn't get out the TVM calculator, but it seems like it would be silly to cut him loose and still pay him, especially because even if he is just a guy, he'd still need to be replaced. Probably depends on if he's worse but we all still feel he's good or if he's worse but still good yet we all hate him for losing an important game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vilehoopster Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 Okay, I said I was through on this topic and I keep posting but I have a question, a question not really on this topic but on my earlier twist on the topic. Is anyone else afraid that Colome is gonna end up in Minnesota with the Twins? Because I sure am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 7 minutes ago, bmags said: Probably depends on if he's worse but we all still feel he's good or if he's worse but still good yet we all hate him for losing an important game. Hahaha. So true. Especially if it is a game in June to the Cubs in a year where the Sox win the World Series with Hendriks pitching immaculately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 1 minute ago, vilehoopster said: Okay, I said I was through on this topic and I keep posting but I have a question, a question not really on this topic but on my earlier twist on the topic. Is anyone else afraid that Colome is gonna end up in Minnesota with the Twins? Because I sure am. I don't think Colome is all that good. So not super worried about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 12 minutes ago, turnin' two said: Yeah, I suppose so, and I didn't get out the TVM calculator, but it seems like it would be silly to cut him loose and still pay him, especially because even if he is just a guy, he'd still need to be replaced. I think the only way they cut him loose if he is just god awful in Year 3 (or was to suffer some terrible injury earlier) The money is going to have to be paid. And as others have mentioned, as morbid as it is....if Hendricks sucks and the Sox decide they don't even want him on the team in Year 4.....Jerry probably isn't paying him most of the money himself....he'll be 97 I believe when the payments to Hendricks would stop... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 Just now, mqr said: I don't think Colome is all that good. So not super worried about it. I don't get this at all. He has never been anything but good in his career. Now, it is often more exciting than you'd like, and he isn't as flashy, but Colome produces. He has a sub-3 ERA in 8 seasons. The guy isn't a joke. He puts too many guys on base for comfort, but he is a good reliever and has been a good closer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, turnin' two said: I don't get this at all. He has never been anything but good in his career. Now, it is often more exciting than you'd like, and he isn't as flashy, but Colome produces. He has a sub-3 ERA in 8 seasons. The guy isn't a joke. He puts too many guys on base for comfort, but he is a good reliever and has been a good closer. I'm not saying he's bad, I'm just not going to worry about it if he signs with the twins. He's not going to get away with not giving up home runs to the sox. Edited January 12, 2021 by mqr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 24 minutes ago, bmags said: Depends, that year is when a lot of our extensions pump up. And we are still paying Konerko deferred money and we usually don't even count it since it's a million a year. Could be attractive if he's just a set-up guy. I just went back and looked it up, Paulie's final payment for deferred money was 2020. He got a million a year from 14-20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vilehoopster Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 13 minutes ago, mqr said: I don't think Colome is all that good. So not super worried about it. You just said this to get me going again on my Colome better than Hendriks argument, didn't you? Well, not taking the bait. I know, most of you are saying, "Thank God". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagahRagah Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 (edited) Weird to me that Passan is calling 1 signing a "spending spree." Does he know something we don't? Edited January 12, 2021 by RagahRagah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rounding_Third Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, mqr said: I'm not saying he's bad, I'm just not going to worry about it if he signs with the twins. He's not going to get away with not giving up home runs to the sox. There's only 2 quality closers left, right? Colome and Hand? With at least a half dozen teams looking for closers, including the friggin Dodgers, I think Colome is going to sign for just a couple $m under Hendriks. No proof just thinking logically. If true, give me Hendriks for a little more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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