CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, ptatc said: Its 18 for cap purposes but in reality it's only 13 paid out. It's not an excuse not to sign Bauer. The Sox were never going to commit 5 years to a starting pitcher with the options they currently have. They wanted that proven closer at the back of the pen which is a very important piece for a winning team. Then we will see if the Sox settle with Lopez or let an arbitrator decide if he's worth $2.2M and if the Sox DFA him as an early sign that I am correct that they are tapped out and we either see a trade for another starting pitcher and dumpster diving for anything else. By that I mean any FA signed from this point forward will be $5M or less . And I agree about the closer but I also think that with Hendricks and a strong pen it lessens the dependence on stronger starting pitching. If there is one thing we know about the Sox they would rather take the cheap route to winning than the one that requires them to make a commitment to a top of the market starting pitcher. The options the Sox currently have are 3 starting pitchers, one of whom is gone in a year who people are hoping gets extended with Lynn, which is rather pitiful hoping they extend him at his age til his age 36 season. Keuchel is 33 and are hoping he is good enough to last through his age 35 season so we can pick up his option for his age 36 season ? Cease and Kopech both have to prove themselves and right now Crochet isn't even a glimmer in the eye of the starting rotation. Let's not overestimate the options we currently have. It's why the Sox are seeking a trade for a cost controlled starter more than anything else right now. It's not the options we currently have keeping the Sox from taking a shot at Bauer its money. We are still looking for our Wheeler only now the Sox can't afford him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Then we will see if the Sox settle with Lopez or let an arbitrator decide if he's worth $2.2M and if the Sox DFA him as an early sign that I am correct that they are tapped out and we either see a trade for another starting pitcher and dumpster diving for anything else. By that I mean any FA signed from this point forward will be $5M or less . And I agree about the closer but I also think that with Hendricks and a strong pen it lessens the dependence on stronger starting pitching. If there is one thing we know about the Sox they would rather take the cheap route to winning than the one that requires them to make a commitment to a top of the market starting pitcher. The options the Sox currently have are 3 starting pitchers, one of whom is gone in a year who people are hoping gets extended with Lynn, which is rather pitiful hoping they extend him at his age til his age 36 season. Keuchel is 33 and are hoping he is good enough to last through his age 35 season so we can pick up his option for his age 36 season ? Cease and Kopech both have to prove themselves and right now Crochet isn't even a glimmer in the eye of the starting rotation. Let's not overestimate the options we currently have. It's why the Sox are seeking a trade for a cost controlled starter more than anything else right now. It's not the options we currently have keeping the Sox from taking a shot at Bauer its money. We are still looking for our Wheeler only now the Sox can't afford him. The Sox dont need a Wheeler nor should they. They have their top 3, which is all a team needs in the playoffs, the #1 of which is young enough. Chasing starting pitching through the FA market is the riskiest if all positions due to the length if contracts and injury concerns. Ice never advocated for it and never will. Developing them and trading for them is the much more reasonable route. They have their top 3 this year with very talented pitchers behind them learning how to pitch in the MLB plus a good group behind them learning in the minors. I think you'll see them draft more advanced arms now to continue it. As you point out lengthening the bullpen, which is already good, will also hide any weaknesses in the rotation. They are playing to their strengths and if you are right and the budget us maxed out, it was the smart move to make because they weren't getting a high end starter for that price. A lock down pen would be more effective than a middle if the road starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagahRagah Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, ptatc said: The Sox dont need a Wheeler nor should they. They have their top 3, which is all a team needs in the playoffs, the #1 of which is young enough. Chasing starting pitching through the FA market is the riskiest if all positions due to the length if contracts and injury concerns. Ice never advocated for it and never will. Developing them and trading for them is the much more reasonable route. They have their top 3 this year with very talented pitchers behind them learning how to pitch in the MLB plus a good group behind them learning in the minors. I think you'll see them draft more advanced arms now to continue it. As you point out lengthening the bullpen, which is already good, will also hide any weaknesses in the rotation. They are playing to their strengths and if you are right and the budget us maxed out, it was the smart move to make because they weren't getting a high end starter for that price. A lock down pen would be more effective than a middle if the road starter. You're not wrong but if I'm understanding your post correctly then I might need to point out that something that seriously needs to be considered is the realistic possibility of serious regression from 2 of those top 3 you are talking about. Not to mention that improvement from Cease and Kopech breaking in will probably take time. I believe at least 1 more really solid starter is going to be necessary this year. Edited January 15, 2021 by RagahRagah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 5 minutes ago, RagahRagah said: You're not wrong but if I'm understanding your post correctly then I might need to point out that something that seriously needs to be considered is the realistic possibility of serious regression from 2 of those top 3 you are talking about. Not to mention that improvement from Cease and Kopech breaking in will probably take time. I believe at least 1 more really solid starter is going to be necessary this year. True and If ptatc already knows that we need 1 more solid starter and rather trade for it than sign a FA that somewhat negates his argument that 3 solid starters plus Cease and Kopech plus the good group in the minors because some of that will be traded for the 1 more solid starter. We aren't trading for pitching without giving up pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 15 minutes ago, RagahRagah said: You're not wrong but if I'm understanding your post correctly then I might need to point out that something that seriously needs to be considered is the realistic possibility of serious regression from 2 of those top 3 you are talking about. Not to mention that improvement from Cease and Kopech breaking in will probably take time. I believe at least 1 more really solid starter is going to be necessary this year. A solid starter is a possibility but not a high end, high priced one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: True and If ptatc already knows that we need 1 more solid starter and rather trade for it than sign a FA that somewhat negates his argument that 3 solid starters plus Cease and Kopech plus the good group in the minors because some of that will be traded for the 1 more solid starter. We aren't trading for pitching without giving up pitching. This is correct depending on the price. I don't think they need one but of course it would help. I would have no issue if they give up one pitcher to acquire another one with at least a few years of control. I would have an issue if they give up multiple pitchers for one with only one year of control. It's all about getting as many shots at the playoffs for as many years as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 29 minutes ago, ptatc said: This is correct depending on the price. I don't think they need one but of course it would help. I would have no issue if they give up one pitcher to acquire another one with at least a few years of control. I would have an issue if they give up multiple pitchers for one with only one year of control. It's all about getting as many shots at the playoffs for as many years as possible. This is why I think Joe Musgrove is the most likely guy to be traded for. He only has 2 years of control left and anything more than that the Sox likely give up at least 2 pitchers and possibly Crochet, Kopech and another pitcher like Heuer or some from the minors like Burdi, Johnson, Kelley , Dahlquist , Thompson or Stiever. The Sox will do their damnedest to not trade one of Kopech, Crochet or Vaughn but it wouldn't surprise me if they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35thstreetswarm Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 42 minutes ago, ptatc said: A solid starter is a possibility but not a high end, high priced one. Can I interest you in a low priced, high end one? Meet my friend Corey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: This is why I think Joe Musgrove is the most likely guy to be traded for. He only has 2 years of control left and anything more than that the Sox likely give up at least 2 pitchers and possibly Crochet, Kopech and another pitcher like Heuer or some from the minors like Burdi, Johnson, Kelley , Dahlquist , Thompson or Stiever. The Sox will do their damnedest to not trade one of Kopech, Crochet or Vaughn but it wouldn't surprise me if they did. I should qualify my statement, not more than one starting pitcher. If it involves one of the starters and a reliever, I'd be ok with that. Good starting pitching is just so difficult to come by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said: Can I interest you in a low priced, high end one? Meet my friend Corey Nice to meet you Corey! Low price high end is much better than a high priced low end. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 4 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said: Can I interest you in a low priced, high end one? Meet my friend Corey What makes you think he is either one of those ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35thstreetswarm Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: What makes you think he is either one of those ? High-end: the fact that he won 2 Cy Youngs in the last 5 full seasons he pitched, and was one of the AL's top starters as recently as 2018. Low-cost: the fact that his reported asking price is 6-8 million. Edited January 15, 2021 by 35thstreetswarm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 Certain media were proclaiming the Sox as favorites after acquiring Liam whereas he is replacing Colome who was superb. Then I see an MLB poll on FB suggesting the Sox will win only eight of the next ten World Series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said: High-end: the fact that he won 2 Cy Youngs in the last 5 full seasons he pitched, and was one of the AL's top starters as recently as 2018. Low-cost: the fact that his reported asking price is 6-8 million. He last pitched in his age 32 season , his last high end season. If anyone thought he was still high end after 2 years basically not pitching entering his age 35 season he won't be had for $6-8M. Just a guess he signs for more than that. Probably get's a 2 year or 1 plus an option for 10+. If the Sox sign him I'd be surprised. Edited January 15, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 hour ago, RagahRagah said: You're not wrong but if I'm understanding your post correctly then I might need to point out that something that seriously needs to be considered is the realistic possibility of serious regression from 2 of those top 3 you are talking about. Not to mention that improvement from Cease and Kopech breaking in will probably take time. I believe at least 1 more really solid starter is going to be necessary this year. One more quality starter is a luxury...but what the heck...it would make for a fun season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 6 minutes ago, poppysox said: One more quality starter is a luxury...but what the heck...it would make for a fun season. It's definitely a need. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 minute ago, manbearpuig said: It's definitely a need. There is a school of thought that Katz can fix Cease and Lopez along with Kopech coming along in short order. Especially with the deep bullpen we now have. Five quality innings and turn it over to the pen. I like all Sox fans would prefer we sign TOR type and remove all doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 28 minutes ago, poppysox said: There is a school of thought that Katz can fix Cease and Lopez along with Kopech coming along in short order. Especially with the deep bullpen we now have. Five quality innings and turn it over to the pen. I like all Sox fans would prefer we sign TOR type and remove all doubt. I guess we will see today what Katz thinks of Lopez. If Lopez is DFA'd and a BP piece traded for a starting pitcher the BP takes a hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 7 minutes ago, aeichhor said: They second tweet below this says Now fire LaRussa. That made me laugh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 33 minutes ago, poppysox said: There is a school of thought that Katz can fix Cease and Lopez along with Kopech coming along in short order. Especially with the deep bullpen we now have. Five quality innings and turn it over to the pen. I like all Sox fans would prefer we sign TOR type and remove all doubt. This isn't MLB the Show were you can just add points to attributes to make players better. Katz may help fix Cease and Reylo, but that is not a given, and we don't know how long that would take. We need another starter and can let the cards fall where they may. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: I guess we will see today what Katz thinks of Lopez. If Lopez is DFA'd and a BP piece traded for a starting pitcher the BP takes a hit. Interested to get this resolved. I for one have an overly optimistic attitude for what Katz can do. Also, a drop-dead bullpen coupled with an explosive lineup can hide a multitude of sins.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 4 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: If Lopez is DFA'd because they couldn't settle and the estimated arb. cost of $2.2M is deemed too expensive to keep for his current role then either Katz doesn't like what he sees or Sox have run out of money and we will see trades and dumpster diving for anything else added to the 25/26. The Sox already offered tendered ReyLo. They knew within a pretty narrow range what he was going to cost. These talks aren't changing that. These are formalities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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