DH Options

[Rey21]

15 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

Just have a hunch, LaRussa being old school isn't looking for a rotating DH.   Just like he got his way with a lockdown closer, he's going to get a DH. 

With each passing day, If that Nelson Cruz prize tag drops to the $10 million range for one season, you have to make a play.   The guy still posted elite numbers last season.  

I have no problem Vaughn getting a full Minor League season under his belt.  

 

Thank you, Vaughn needs time still, dude looked great facing the same pitching every day he needs to some run in the minors. I mean I hope everyone understands that this team is competing for a title Vaughn can be great but let’s get a proven hitter to fill that DH spot for now. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

26 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:

If predictions are true, La Stella at 2/14 is pretty cheap for what he can do.  In essence, 2 players for the price of 1. He's such a perfect Sox fit, can't believe its not done already. 

I think that is significant money to the Sox right now with a hole still in the rotation .

[Rounding_Third]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I think that is significant money to the Sox right now with a hole still in the rotation .

They can easily do both with the gap up to $140m,

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:

They can easily do both with the gap up to $140m,

I think as far as luxury tax purposes go they are already up to $160M according to what's posted in the Luxury Tax thread.

That's my reason for thinking the only money spent going forward is reserved for the SP the Sox trade for or trade deadline purposes.

Edited January 15, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Rounding_Third]

10 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:

They can easily do both with the gap up to $140m,

I'm looking at a site that says current Sox payroll is sitting at $121m.  Is that roughly the right number?  I don't fully understand MLB's true cap number calc.

[SonofaRoache]

22 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I think as far as luxury tax purposes go they are already up to $160M according to what's posted in the Luxury Tax thread.

That's my reason for thinking the only money spent going forward is reserved for the SP the Sox trade for or trade deadline purposes.

Isn't the tax threshold 208 million? 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

14 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:

I'm looking at a site that says current Sox payroll is sitting at $121m.  Is that roughly the right number?  I don't fully understand MLB's true cap number calc.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/a-quick-note-on-the-liam-hendriks-contract/#comments

This is the fangraphs article used in the luxury tax thread. It says payroll is it $131M (Roster Resource) but for luxury tax purposes it's at $160M.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

Isn't the tax threshold 208 million? 

Whatever it is the Sox aren't going to come close to it.

[Rounding_Third]

9 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/a-quick-note-on-the-liam-hendriks-contract/#comments

This is the fangraphs article used in the luxury tax thread. It says payroll is it $131M (Roster Resource) but for luxury tax purposes it's at $160M.

Thx a lot!  I was looking at Spotrac which appears to be terribly inaccurate.  Also just looked at Baseball-Reference.  Even they have it at $115m which includes Eaton and Lynn but not Hendriks.  

[Dominikk85]

2 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Wouldn’t be surprised if Nick Williams is an option here. Sox just signed him, he’s a lefty bat that can play the OF and is 2 years removed from double digit HR numbers. If the Sox go super cheap at DH, it wouldn’t shock me if they try to pull another Cody Asche 2.0 with this guy.

I would rather give Collins a chance until vaughn is up then using williams who has some pop but about a 5 to 1 k/bb ratio in his career. Williams has a bit of pop but his hit tool is terrible. Collins at least walks a lot even though his hit tool isn't great either.

[Rounding_Third]

15 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

I would rather give Collins a chance until vaughn is up then using williams who has some pop but about a 5 to 1 k/bb ratio in his career. Williams has a bit of pop but his hit tool is terrible. Collins at least walks a lot even though his hit tool isn't great either.

I just can't see the Sox coming this far in 5 years for this moment and not fill such a critical role with an established LH bat.   Even if they go low cost, there's still a lot to choose from.  

Edited January 15, 2021 by Rounding_Third

[SonofaRoache]

38 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Whatever it is the Sox aren't going to come close to it.

Correct, but if they have a payroll of 131 million, they can add more money or short deals. If they add another 30 million this offseason they still wouldn't come close to actually paying 208 million in real money. 

[ptatc]

17 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Correct, but if they have a payroll of 131 million, they can add more money or short deals. If they add another 30 million this offseason they still wouldn't come close to actually paying 208 million in real money. 

It's not the paying real money that matters to the luxury tax. As discussed the Sox are only paying Hendriks 13 million in real money, however it is 18 million by luxury tax standards. I haven't looked it up but someone else posted that the salary for the luxury tax is at 160 million right now.

[Wisebri224]

10 minutes ago, ptatc said:

It's not the paying real money that matters to the luxury tax. As discussed the Sox are only paying Hendriks 13 million in real money, however it is 18 million by luxury tax standards. I haven't looked it up but someone else posted that the salary for the luxury tax is at 160 million right now.

But the Sox aren't going to head toward that tax number THIS YEAR anyway.  If they sign someone for longer than that at DH it could be a problem with all of the extensions they have done the last couple of years adding more to the payroll come 2022-23 and the hopes of getting Gio an extension before this year starts.

[Balta1701]

34 minutes ago, ptatc said:

It's not the paying real money that matters to the luxury tax. As discussed the Sox are only paying Hendriks 13 million in real money, however it is 18 million by luxury tax standards. I haven't looked it up but someone else posted that the salary for the luxury tax is at 160 million right now.

The reason that the White Sox's luxury tax number is higher than their total salary is that all the luxury tax numbers are averaged. So, even though Moncada and Robert may only get small amounts this year, their luxury tax number is based on the average annual value of the contract. 

That means...the difference between the 2 numbers will be the largest in the early years of those deals, and turn around the other way in the second half of their deals. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

17 minutes ago, Wisebri224 said:

But the Sox aren't going to head toward that tax number THIS YEAR anyway.  If they sign someone for longer than that at DH it could be a problem with all of the extensions they have done the last couple of years adding more to the payroll come 2022-23 and the hopes of getting Gio an extension before this year starts.

They aren't ever going to come close to that CBT because that's the reality of the White Sox and Covid. They took the tax hit with the Hendriks contract for the 1st 3 years at $18M per year to save on the back end. We are saying they are pretty well maxed out on their payroll according to the luxury tax figures to the payroll not the actual hit to the payroll except for any salary we add for the remaining SP we should acquire and that's more likely to come via trade because of our CBT payroll this year. The Sox will operate now because the payroll is $160M for luxury tax purposes not $131M.

[ptatc]

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

They aren't ever going to come close to that CBT because that's the reality of the White Sox and Covid. They took the tax hit with the Hendriks contract for the 1st 3 years at $18M per year to save on the back end. We are saying they are pretty well maxed out on their payroll according to the luxury tax figures to the payroll not the actual hit to the payroll except for any salary we add for the remaining SP we should acquire and that's more likely to come via trade because of our CBT payroll this year. The Sox will operate now because the payroll is $160M for luxury tax purposes not $131M.

I don't think this is correct. They are operating under a 131 payroll because that is what they are actually paying out. However, not knowing what their max budget is, it could be near the top.

[SonofaRoache]

41 minutes ago, ptatc said:

It's not the paying real money that matters to the luxury tax. As discussed the Sox are only paying Hendriks 13 million in real money, however it is 18 million by luxury tax standards. I haven't looked it up but someone else posted that the salary for the luxury tax is at 160 million right now.

I get this point. I'm saying in terms of dollars Jerry will actually spend, we could add more to the payroll. Our payroll is 131 million, not 160 million. So if we decide to sign a guy like Cruz and bring in Kluber, our payroll for this year is now about 156 million. In terms of luxury tax it would be 185 million, but Jerry isn't actually spending that number. Even if you factor in a Gio extension it won't reach 208. Thus we should have a decent amount of money left to spend if the deals are short. 

[ptatc]

10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The reason that the White Sox's luxury tax number is higher than their total salary is that all the luxury tax numbers are averaged. So, even though Moncada and Robert may only get small amounts this year, their luxury tax number is based on the average annual value of the contract. 

That means...the difference between the 2 numbers will be the largest in the early years of those deals, and turn around the other way in the second half of their deals. 

Correct. Jimenez is there as well. People just need to realize where the number is and how much is available under the threshold.

[ptatc]

2 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

I get this point. I'm saying in terms of dollars Jerry will actually spend, we could add more to the payroll. Our payroll is 131 million, not 160 million. So if we decide to sign a guy like Cruz and bring in Kluber, our payroll for this year is now about 156 million. In terms of luxury tax it would be 185 million, but Jerry isn't actually spending that number. Even if you factor in a Gio extension it won't reach 208. Thus we should have a decent amount of money left to spend if the deals are short. 

true, however in your scenario they are getting close to the first threshold which could limit any acquisition in the future. 

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

Correct. Jimenez is there as well. People just need to realize where the number is and how much is available under the threshold.

If the White Sox spend $45 million signing Bauer and Cruz, I will be quite stunned,  and they will still be under the tax. 

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

If the White Sox spend $45 million signing Bauer and Cruz, I will be quite stunned,  and they will still be under the tax. 

Just barely under the luxury tax, but damn that would be sick.

[ptatc]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If the White Sox spend $45 million signing Bauer and Cruz, I will be quite stunned,  and they will still be under the tax. 

True. I don't see them even looking at Cruz as they plan to have vaughn this year. However, in your scenario the 45 million brings them to 205 million luxury tax wise. This would preclude any substantial extension for giolito and little room to acquire anyone at the deadline. 48 million is not that much to work with if they sign giolito and another high priced pitcher. Which is why I don't see any high priced FA pitcher.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

True. I don't see them even looking at Cruz as they plan to have vaughn this year. However, in your scenario the 45 million brings them to 205 million luxury tax wise. This would preclude any substantial extension for giolito and little room to acquire anyone at the deadline. 48 million is not that much to work with if they sign giolito and another high priced pitcher. Which is why I don't see any high priced FA pitcher.

I don't see any high priced FA pitcher because I don't see the White Sox signing Bauer, that's really simple. But they have room to extend Giolito, sign Bauer, and still have room at the trade deadline without any tax issues.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

I get this point. I'm saying in terms of dollars Jerry will actually spend, we could add more to the payroll. Our payroll is 131 million, not 160 million. So if we decide to sign a guy like Cruz and bring in Kluber, our payroll for this year is now about 156 million. In terms of luxury tax it would be 185 million, but Jerry isn't actually spending that number. Even if you factor in a Gio extension it won't reach 208. Thus we should have a decent amount of money left to spend if the deals are short. 

This is just where we have a difference of opinion. I think anyone expecting 2  1 years contracts or 1  2 year contract for anything over $10M more is fooling themselves. But I will be more than happy to be wrong. Whoever the Sox add to the rotation for example Joe Musgrove we will add his est. $4.4M salary which might leave room for Mitch Moreland for around the same salary depending on any salary traded away.