Student Loan Debt

[southsideirish71]

27 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

20 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The idea that we are trusting 17-18 year old kids to be able to see the future and project which jobs and careers will be around in 10/20/30 years to a degree of certainty that many are going to carry six figures (or more) of debt in making that bet is absurd.   These are the same kids we don't trust to drink or drive a rental car, but are fully putting a hundred thousand dollars worth of debt and their careers in the same hands.

The best economists out there struggled to see the changes in the world during my lifetime.  The fact that we are having kids bet their careers and financial futures on it is laughable.  

There has to be a better way to do this.

A lot of kids should be looking at community college to start.  Dropping 50k on a school just to get away from home to figure things out is a very costly experiment.  The other thing is people should be reviewing what their degree is and what school really makes sense for it.   You need to get a return on investment.   

One class that should be made mandatory is a basic finance class in high school.  This is how credit card debt works, this is how checking works, this is how to save.  We send kids out into the world and they have zero idea on how any of this works.    

Edited January 19, 2021 by southsideirish71

[southsider2k5]

12 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

A lot of kids should be looking at community college to start.  Dropping 50k on a school just to get away from home to figure things out is a very costly experiment.  The other thing is people should be reviewing what their degree is and what school really makes sense for it.   You need to get a return on investment.   

One class that should be made mandatory is a basic finance class in high school.  This is how credit card debt works, this is how checking works, this is how to save.  We send kids out into the world and they have zero idea on how any of this works.    

It sounds great in principal, but those are things they should be getting at home. 

[pettie4sox]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

It sounds great in principal, but those are things they should be getting at home. 

What if your parents are inept?

[Texsox]

2 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Disagreed.

 

If a student is a dependent, it is the parent's income that appears on the FAFSA form.

Info about FAFSA

That's for student financial aid which is money they do not have to pay back. The student loan (emphasis student) is on the student to pay. I do this all day long as a high school teacher. These kids receive guaranteed loans in their name that they have to repay. That is different than loans that their parents may take out or Pell Grants and other aid they may receive.  There are limits on how much in loans that the government will guarantee. After that students and parents take out private loans to cover the gap. 

There are two main types of government loans that kids take. Direct subsidized loans where the government will pay the interest while you are in school and for six months after graduation. There are some restrictions based on family income,  but the student, not the parents, are responsible for repayment and no co signer is required. 

The second is direct unsubsidized and interest is added the entire time the student is in school. Their parents income is not considered in awarding these loans. Again,  the student is 100% responsible for repayment. 

Both of these options come at single digit interest rates and no cosigner. The entire risk for the lender is on the student.

After that we get into private, non guaranteed loans which those lenders will look at everything and possible have the parents cosign. 

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

That's for student financial aid which is money they do not have to pay back. The student loan (emphasis student) is on the student to pay. I do this all day long as a high school teacher. These kids receive guaranteed loans in their name that they have to repay. 

Dude, this isn't so hard to look up:

 

How to apply for Student loans

From that link: ..."To apply for a federal student loan, first complete and submit the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA^®) form. Based on the results of the FAFSA form, your college or career school will send you a financial aid offer, which may include a federal student loan(s). Your school will explain how to accept all, or a part of the aid offered."

And yes: Whose Income Goes On FAFSA

From that link: 

"What kind of information must my parents provide for the FAFSA^® form?

For each parent, you’ll report similar information to that you report for yourself: basic information about your parent’s identity (e.g., name, date of birth, and Social Security number—if he or she has one); living situation (e.g., marital status, state of residence, household size); and financial circumstances (e.g., tax information, certain assets, certain untaxed income."

 

So yes, you're correct that the student has to pay the loans. But based on these links I've provided from the Federal student aid website, I'm correct that the basis for loan eligibility is based on the FAFSA, which in turn is based on the parents' income.

 

[The Beast]

5 hours ago, Texsox said:

Actually,  the first set of student loans are not tied to the parent's income. They are on the students,  which is why the kids have the debt, not the parents. Parents may also take out private loans and those are based on income. 

But you're correct, college should be about making yourself more valuable for an employer. Develop some skills that others can use to make themselves more money. Our society just can't support arts and humanities anymore. You don't need a college degree to get a million views. 

It should be about that, but some kids take classes to get by or pick an easy major. The career centers don’t necessarily help guiding in a way where they can help students with figuring out how to be off valuable to an employer. 

Liberal arts have a role in general education but as college degree programs, they can be nixed, just like Illinois Wesleyan did recently with some of their programs, recognizing enrollment was declining and they needed to shore up their more technical programs to gain more students and really provide them with more value.

5 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The idea that we are trusting 17-18 year old kids to be able to see the future and project which jobs and careers will be around in 10/20/30 years to a degree of certainty that many are going to carry six figures (or more) of debt in making that bet is absurd.   These are the same kids we don't trust to drink or drive a rental car, but are fully putting a hundred thousand dollars worth of debt and their careers in the same hands.

The best economists out there struggled to see the changes in the world during my lifetime.  The fact that we are having kids bet their careers and financial futures on it is laughable.  

There has to be a better way to do this.

Yes, there has to be a better way. I’ll use myself as an example even if some of you are tired of it:

I was an average student in high school, who despite being in a DuPage County school district was misplaced in science and math courses, forcing me into a two year algebra course where I also was on a lower level track for science too. As a result I was achieving well in my math courses and took classes in both science and math with kids who either failed the year before, didn’t give a shit about their academics or just had learning disabilities and couldn’t focus. This misplacement mattered because it led me to an average ACT score. 

My strength was writing in high school, so I focused on mostly English courses. I didn’t care much for reading literature but I loved (and still love) the newspaper so I was drawn to journalism and thought I would pursue it. I worked on the school paper and school radio station and continued that into college. When I got on campus I had a few things going on - a long distance relationship, not being sure if I wanted to be an English major (secondary education), in marketing or in journalism. Everyone I heard from said that journalism wasn’t a good career financially and in terms of job prospects.

Eventually I lost passion for sports reporting and saw how competitive broadcasting was and found out I didn’t want to teach literature so I transferred schools and majored in business while I got a scholarship to work in the sports information department. Since graduating, I interned at a professional sports organization, a startup and PR firm, worked for a startup, FMLA administrator and an insurer for the last six years. During the last six years I got a data science degree to be more marketable and have focused more on getting a sales analytics job even though it’s been a challenge getting projects to get experience on the technical nature of that work.

However, I have also thought about job satisfaction and pay for different jobs. I see how jobs like nursing and PT help people and provide a great income and how data analysis and web development could have great incomes and could work in a team setting doing potentially interesting work. I guess my overall point is, yes, you learn over time about what your likes and dislikes are, but damn, if you don’t know what you want after high school, there should really be a way in high school to focus on strengthening a weakness  (taking an additional math or science class) instead of wasting time in a foreign language class you’ll forget over time or there needs to be more real talk about careers throughout high school. Or, colleges need to focus more on their students in advising them better. If that’s just no possible and it’s on the student, then fuck, just stay home, work and go to a community college and hope you eventually find what you want and finish your undergraduate degree and go to work or go into a graduate program so you can begin another career.

Otherwise, the same issue is there where people work for just a living while thinking of other careers, hating or feeling indifferent about what they do and feel stuck with their careers or trying to change them. There has to be a better way.

5 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

True that our education system has failed in this regard. That said, I don't know that we "have to" force people to take majors that will lead to a job. I also recognize that the humanities, the liberal arts, etc... can be crucial to rounding out an education.

 

What is problematic, and creates a moral hazard is when a student chooses some stoopid major that has no prayer of providing the student with a livable wage, then the schools charge them the same as a REAL major. OR, when the lenders allow an oboe major to borrow the same as a finance major.

The cost to a student should be tied to the value of the degree. The ability to borrow should be tied to the ability to repay. Set as a percentage of likely earnings, the amount a student can borrow should be set in such a way that we aren't creating piles of perma-poor Americans.

Would be curious to see what you think about what I wrote above. I am not the only one who has this kind of experience, there are Reddit threads all about career changers and people who feel lost throughout their college education and careers. It’s not so much about me (at least in this thread) as much as it is about this all to common scenario not being fixed or considered.

[southsider2k5]

4 hours ago, pettie4sox said:

What if your parents are inept?

How much should schools be responsible for, and when do we start paying teachers to be experts in them?

[Chisoxfn]

34 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

How much should schools be responsible for, and when do we start paying teachers to be experts in them?

Isn't this approach just going to magnify the have's and the havenots?  I get what you are saying - but just making everything the parents responsibility probably isn't fair (at least not to the child who doesn't get to pick his parents).  This is an area of passion for me - one that I have and can do more on than I have, but for the past 10 years I have done various financial advocacy volunteer work at schools as well as basic financial education (none enough as I selfishly prioritize myself, my family and my career more and wish I put more time into this).

So much so that when I think about life after retirement (yes - totally delusional since I got at least 25 more years of being a working stiff) - I think about what % of my time I want to carve out to this dedicated of an initiative (whether my own start-up or joining an existing function). I also talk about potentially going into teaching late in my career as well (as an alternative) - not ready to do today - still too much to give in the private sector and what I do today (and I'm greedy - and prefer my paycheck in private sector vs. what I'd get teaching).  But at some point - as simple as it is - want to make sure not only am I filling my kids bucket - better yet I want to ensure I'm instilling values in other and in something i'm passionate and educated about.  For me - Financial wellness and basic financial seems as good as anything - including potentially just generic counseling and mentoring advice - especially for people who don't know what to do and may have interest in getting into the Corporate world.  

I feel like I have a playbook that can be rinsed and repeated. To what success - depends on the individual - but in general - I'd put a pretty high degree of probability on someone following said playbook into a middle class life (with some upside). But this playbook is a bit more narrow - and industry siloed and does assume some basic construct of understanding key concepts needed to baseline succeed in that profession.  

Sorry - long rant.  

[Texsox]

10 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Dude, this isn't so hard to look up:

 

How to apply for Student loans

From that link: ..."To apply for a federal student loan, first complete and submit the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA^®) form. Based on the results of the FAFSA form, your college or career school will send you a financial aid offer, which may include a federal student loan(s). Your school will explain how to accept all, or a part of the aid offered."

And yes: Whose Income Goes On FAFSA

From that link: 

"What kind of information must my parents provide for the FAFSA^® form?

For each parent, you’ll report similar information to that you report for yourself: basic information about your parent’s identity (e.g., name, date of birth, and Social Security number—if he or she has one); living situation (e.g., marital status, state of residence, household size); and financial circumstances (e.g., tax information, certain assets, certain untaxed income."

 

So yes, you're correct that the student has to pay the loans. But based on these links I've provided from the Federal student aid website, I'm correct that the basis for loan eligibility is based on the FAFSA, which in turn is based on the parents' income.

 

Dude,  I literally do this for a living. We're looking at two different things here. Parent's income determines family contribution. This is after all of the aid is subtracted (which is based on family income) As the link you quoted states,  loans may be offered to fill that gap. 

For subsidized government guaranteed loans there are limits based on parents income but parents do not cosign and parents are not responsible to pay it back,  the kids are.  If you are making the loan the kids ability to pay is the risk. After that the next layer of loans are unsubsidized government guaranteed loans where interest begins with the first disbursement. The parents income has zero bearing on that. And again parents do not cosign. If the kid defaults the lenders do not go after the parents. 

In the past three months I have reviewed over two dozen aid and student loan packets with kids from all income levels. How many have you done? 

Parents income will determine how much,  if any, money will be owed after scholarships,  PELL grants,  and other aid. If there is a gap,  and there is almost always a gap, there will be loan offers included. Think of the aid portion (based on parent income) as the downpayment. The loan is 100% on the kid to pay for the government guaranteed direct loans. 

Again, my point walk into a mortgage company at 18 and ask to borrow $100,000 with no money down and without a cosigner. Try an auto loan for $100,000 without a cosigner. Do you think you will get a single digit interest rate? 

Bottom line parent's income is used to determine how much financial aid the student will receive and then how much in loans will be necessary.  It is used to determine how much subsidized money the student can borrow. It is not used to determine how much unsubsidized federally guaranteed money the student can borrow or to mitigate the risk to the lender by cosigning. 

And it is difficult to look up. As they say it's in the details especially if the student needs to look at private loans as well. There,  even with parents cosigning, the interest rates and higher and repayment terms not as generous. Plus any of the loan forgiveness programs do not apply to private loans, just the government direct loans. 

[Texsox]

13 hours ago, southsideirish71 said:

A lot of kids should be looking at community college to start.  Dropping 50k on a school just to get away from home to figure things out is a very costly experiment.  The other thing is people should be reviewing what their degree is and what school really makes sense for it.   You need to get a return on investment.   

One class that should be made mandatory is a basic finance class in high school.  This is how credit card debt works, this is how checking works, this is how to save.  We send kids out into the world and they have zero idea on how any of this works.    

Most of that is covered. I teach some of it actually. 

The problem is it's all theoretical at this point and when they need it,  they've forgotten it. My senior seminar class just did a unit on the relationship between time and money and the difference between spending past money (savings), current money (income), or future money (debt). They worked out scenarios involving the true cost of ownership based on what money you are spending. 

I doubt they will retain much from that class in five or ten years when they will use it. 

As taxpayers we're also spending money to teach kids how to wash their clothes, change a tire in their car, unplug a drain, grocery shop,  etc. Thank you,  I appreciate the salary and all the cool stuff taxpayers provide for me to be mom and dad to 150 kids. 

[Texsox]

Let me give an example. 

A student is going to college. He completes a FAFSA with his parent's income. He will then receive an offer letter based on his parent's income from the college which will outline what scholarships and financial aid are available to him and what is the expected family contribution. 

The first level of loan he will take is a subsidized government guaranteed loan. The maximum amount is based on his parent's income. His parents are not asked to cosign and he is solely responsible for repayment. For most students,  and most public schools, that is all they will need. 

But,  the government does set limits on how much of a subsidy the family qualifies for,  which again is based on family income. The next level is unsubsidized government guaranteed loans, and the student can borrow as much as the university allows and parent's income is not considered. Again,  the student is 100% responsible for repayment. No cosigner, no work history, no collateral, no demonstrated ability to repay. At single digit interest. 

My original point again is,  where else can an 18 year old borrow $100,000  at single digit interest rates? 

[southsider2k5]

10 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

Isn't this approach just going to magnify the have's and the havenots?  I get what you are saying - but just making everything the parents responsibility probably isn't fair (at least not to the child who doesn't get to pick his parents).  This is an area of passion for me - one that I have and can do more on than I have, but for the past 10 years I have done various financial advocacy volunteer work at schools as well as basic financial education (none enough as I selfishly prioritize myself, my family and my career more and wish I put more time into this).

So much so that when I think about life after retirement (yes - totally delusional since I got at least 25 more years of being a working stiff) - I think about what % of my time I want to carve out to this dedicated of an initiative (whether my own start-up or joining an existing function). I also talk about potentially going into teaching late in my career as well (as an alternative) - not ready to do today - still too much to give in the private sector and what I do today (and I'm greedy - and prefer my paycheck in private sector vs. what I'd get teaching).  But at some point - as simple as it is - want to make sure not only am I filling my kids bucket - better yet I want to ensure I'm instilling values in other and in something i'm passionate and educated about.  For me - Financial wellness and basic financial seems as good as anything - including potentially just generic counseling and mentoring advice - especially for people who don't know what to do and may have interest in getting into the Corporate world.  

I feel like I have a playbook that can be rinsed and repeated. To what success - depends on the individual - but in general - I'd put a pretty high degree of probability on someone following said playbook into a middle class life (with some upside). But this playbook is a bit more narrow - and industry siloed and does assume some basic construct of understanding key concepts needed to baseline succeed in that profession.  

Sorry - long rant.  

I mean, I get it, for sure.  The problem is there are  LOT of things kids need to learn that they aren't going to learn at home.  Schools are already straining to teach what they have to teach.  There are a ton of 21st century skills out there that this generation of kids will absolutely have to have to be successful, and our education system is largely based on 19th century values.

The first and most obvious problem here is that you'd have to have someone to teach the classes and fund the needs that go with it.  We all know what is happening to educational budgets these days, and more unfunded mandates aren't going to help that.

[southsideirish71]

I have had two family members go through this fun.   One started picking schools based on football teams from what I could tell.  He visited LSU, Alabama, Clemson.  His grades in HS were mediocre at best.  So he winds up at ISU. Very upset about the fact their football team sucks.  He wanted to be a nurse anesthesiologist.  Well after Sem 1 of this year, that dream is dashed.  The classes are a bit harder than he thought.  So now he wants to be an engineer so he wants to go to Clemson.  He is transferring for 2021/2022.  I asked him why are you dropping your major.  The classes are hard he says.  And you think engineering classes are going to be easier.  Well, he doesn't like math.  Well at least he wont encounter math in engineering, wait a second.  So tune in next year when we are revisiting his major again.  I turned to his father, you know the local community college would have been a great place for him to make this decision.  My nephew.  Well, I am not going to a loser school.  They have no parties.  Only losers go to CC.  I see this as a 5 to 6-year adventure for him.  

The next one picked a 50k a year college and is her major is nursing that a lot of state schools or cheaper schools could have supplied. She has always wanted to be a nurse.  Her mom is a nurse.  The major selection is fine.  I asked her why she picked the school.  It looked like Hogwarts was her comment.  Now she was a straight-A student, had an average ACT, and did receive some scholarship money.  She turned down 3 near full rides because she didn't like the schools look, not Hogwartzy enough I guess.  She is going to pay about 40k a year hereafter her small scholarship.

I want to hear no complaints from either family member about what they are accruing for their student loans.  One had 3 near full rides.  And chose this school based on a nonsense category.  The other has random selections of majors based on what he thinks the job can pay but don't have either the tools or the discipline to push through that.  I truly expect my nephew to decide he is pre-med after the engineering debacle.  Because Drs make a lot of money.  

In the end, some of these kids are their own worst enemy.  I was the first generation to go to college in my family.  It was a big deal.   It's more of an expected outcome now.  I find it ironic that only losers go to CC.  Their parents all used CC as well as I did to afford college. My father couldn't afford to send us to school.  Their parents are all doing very well for themselves.  And their degrees make no mention of the fact that they went to CC.  The perception of Community College is funny and is based on the fact that you must go away for school.  If you don't go away then you cant have the college experience.

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by southsideirish71

[bigruss]

Well I do think there is a thing to the whole not living at home and finding yourself, but it's not necessarily something you have to do right at that time.  For me in high school, community college was looked at as "you couldn't get in anything better", and that mentality needs to change.  I definitely try to sell folks on CC + finish at a 4 year school route when discussing options, but the perception really matters in HS, and that's not just with other high schoolers, but with school teachers and admins that are expecting folks to go to 4 year programs as a success benchmark.  

Also, I was taught a bit about personal finance, but not a single teacher, admin, counselor, etc talked about the expense of school and how to approach it.  The only thing I ever heard was when my civics teacher broke down his budget and his loans were part of the conversation.

[southsideirish71]

2 minutes ago, bigruss said:

Well I do think there is a thing to the whole not living at home and finding yourself, but it's not necessarily something you have to do right at that time.  For me in high school, community college was looked at as "you couldn't get in anything better", and that mentality needs to change.  I definitely try to sell folks on CC + finish at a 4 year school route when discussing options, but the perception really matters in HS, and that's not just with other high schoolers, but with school teachers and admins that are expecting folks to go to 4 year programs as a success benchmark.  

 Also, I was taught a bit about personal finance, but not a single teacher, admin, counselor, etc talked about the expense of school and how to approach it.  The only thing I ever heard was when my civics teacher broke down his budget and his loans were part of the conversation.

The perception was there back when I went to college about community college.  I had someone ride me very hard about being poor.  The ironic thing is that this same person was there in the spring semester because he flunked out of the fall semester.  Karma you sweet b****.  

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, bigruss said:

Well I do think there is a thing to the whole not living at home and finding yourself, but it's not necessarily something you have to do right at that time.  For me in high school, community college was looked at as "you couldn't get in anything better", and that mentality needs to change.  I definitely try to sell folks on CC + finish at a 4 year school route when discussing options, but the perception really matters in HS, and that's not just with other high schoolers, but with school teachers and admins that are expecting folks to go to 4 year programs as a success benchmark.  

Also, I was taught a bit about personal finance, but not a single teacher, admin, counselor, etc talked about the expense of school and how to approach it.  The only thing I ever heard was when my civics teacher broke down his budget and his loans were part of the conversation.

I am President of a local scholarship found with about a million dollar endowment fund.  I have done this for nearly 10 years in a few different terms.  Most of the people who serve on the Board are teachers.  There are none of them I would allow to teach my cat about personal finance.  These people are incredibly smart in their fields of specialty, but that field does not include finance.

[bigruss]

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am President of a local scholarship found with about a million dollar endowment fund.  I have done this for nearly 10 years in a few different terms.  Most of the people who serve on the Board are teachers.  There are none of them I would allow to teach my cat about personal finance.  These people are incredibly smart in their fields of specialty, but that field does not include finance.

Totally fair, and I wouldn't necessarily ask them to do it but someone should be.

[southsider2k5]

11 minutes ago, bigruss said:

Totally fair, and I wouldn't necessarily ask them to do it but someone should be.

It would take a new national initiative to be able to create a program that provides funding for training, as well as fits all applicable SEC, Fedl and FINRA rules and regulations on the topics.  These field has tons of rules and regulations about what can be taught, how it can be taught, and who can teach it.

[Harry Chappas]

I have a kid in college I am a CPA so I think I have some ability to exist in society as an adult.  As a one income home I make a nice living but will not able to send my three kids to college without some loans/assistance.  My wife is gaining traction in the working world as my kids are older so by kiddo number three it may be easier.

The FAFSA process ends up working but as a platform you need to work to figure it out and from Tex v Two Gun Pete you can see there are different ways that this appears until Tex gets us straightened out from a trailer on campground somewhere in west Texas (just kidding ya Tex your summation is spot on).

My son's private school got his $54K tuition with room and board down to $20K via scholarships.  My son via FAFSA has unsubsidized loans of $6,400 annually.  I paid off year one by beg, borrowing and stealing but with new COVID things (low rates) I took out $14K in PLUS loans.  After this year he will be on his own and graduate with about $50K in debt.  That is not crippling but also puts some steak in the game.

I have kid number two coming up in a couple years.  He is a better student and wants to go to the same school so he may end in the same place.  $50K in debt. 

If both kids get jobs around Chicago and want to live at home for a couple of years they can do that rent free.  I will also help them with their debt after graduating college. 

My third child is much younger so I have time on that one.

I became an accountant because I was decent at it and it got me job and has kept me employed.  Do I like it ....sometimes...but I cannot complain.  That's the reality of the world sometimes when it comes to a career. 

I do think that going away to college is important as it is a controlled environment in which you learn to somewhat live on your own and manage yourself socially, professionally and financially.  Some kids can do this without going away but some need this.

The largest issue currently though is that an individual cannot support himself/herself and put themselves through college as easily as it was in my day (late 80's).  I had some help from my family and I worked to make the rest meet.  I made decent money on and around campus to pay my room and board and my family paid the tuition.  

I spent 4 years on campus at a state school with zero aid (except parents help), got a job out of college, and became a CPA.

Fiscally my life is fine.  My wife stayed at home for 8 years and with no college degree will make ok money moving forward but not enough to get us past  middle/middle class.  

 

[Ducksnort]

6 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am President of a local scholarship found with about a million dollar endowment fund.  I have done this for nearly 10 years in a few different terms.  Most of the people who serve on the Board are teachers.  There are none of them I would allow to teach my cat about personal finance.  These people are incredibly smart in their fields of specialty, but that field does not include finance.

Probably because the same education system they graduated from is the same education system that hasn't changed much...that doesn't teach personal finance. Budgeting is such a simple concept...however it is not a "common sense" one. It does need to be taught. Apparently the handling of money is less important than Algebra 2 or Dante's Inferno...

When I graduated in December 2016, I had about 40 k to pay off. My wife had about 50 k when she graduated in December 2014. Neither one of us knew much about personal finance, but we knew we wanted to get our ducks in a row. We heard about Dave Ramsey just before we got married in May of 2015, signed up for his class, and have lived by his principles since. With the help of those basic ideas (and living at her parents for a year and 3 months with them graciously charging rent at only $200 a month), we have all her loans paid off and mine will be paid off next month. We haven't been paying mine since they did the Student loan payment and interest pause back in March 2019 due to covid, and we won't pay it because there are lots of rumors that Biden might forgive some of it...he's already going to executive order to student loan payment pause to September.

But we would not be where we are right now had we not sought out some wisdom. It was all too clear to me that personal finance should be taught in school, and it baffled me as to why it's not.

Edited January 20, 2021 by ScooterMcGee

[CentralChamps21]

I will agree that basic finance isn't taught at school and should be, but it should also be taught at home. From my early teens, my parents started explaining to me how our household budget works. I knew how much they made, what percentage of that got deducted for taxes, insurance, etc. I knew how much our house was worth, what the mortgage payments were, and what was budgeted monthly for food, gas, car payments, utilities, church, etc. I naively assumed most parents did this. Then I noticed one of my friends whose parents were both attorneys and lived in the nicest part of town would often complain about how he was treated by "spoiled rich kids living in million dollar homes". He literally had no clue how much his parents made or how much their house was worth (turned out to be $925K). I came to learn that very few parents tell their kids things as basic as how much they make or how much their house is worth.

I may or may not end up with student loans at some point, but if I do I'll know exactly what I'm getting into.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I think I'm down to around $1000 left. I don't really care if they wipe mine out or not, but I absolutely support it going forward.

[Texsox]

At least in the two school districts I've worked in here in Texas Financial Literacy is taught as an elective. But it's not very popular. Playing the stock market game is fun for a week or two. 

[Texsox]

8 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am President of a local scholarship found with about a million dollar endowment fund.  I have done this for nearly 10 years in a few different terms.  Most of the people who serve on the Board are teachers.  There are none of them I would allow to teach my cat about personal finance.  These people are incredibly smart in their fields of specialty, but that field does not include finance.

Give any competent teacher a good curriculum and it could be taught at the high school level. I don't have one tenth of your knowledge of economics but I can teach how credit cards work, mortgages, how interest rates are based on risk,  etc. 

[Texsox]

1 hour ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

 

I may or may not end up with student loans at some point, but if I do I'll know exactly what I'm getting into.

Which is another problem with the system. There are counseling questions that borrows have to answer but most just click through as fast as possible. One kid told me he thought it was like a software agreement that you just agree without reading. He's probably the majority.