Student Loan Debt

[Quin]

While I know there inherently some political aspects of this discussion (electoral effects, how certain camps are reacting), try to avoid them on SoxTalk.

[T R U]

10 hours ago, pettie4sox said:

It's kind of funny the people complaining about relief don't realize the people with the extra money now will put it right back into the economy.  Homes, cars, consumables, vacations, etc...

This is America, it’s more important to be bitter and toxic about others getting relief instead of supportive. 

[Texsox]

My job has me listening to 20 to 30 college recruiting pitches each year. I understand the additional tech and modern upgrades that cost colleges and get passed on. But what has also inflated tuition are the resort amenities that have been built to attract college students. 

Dorms are bigger and nicer. Pools are connected to lazy rivers. The health club fitness centers are state of the art. Colleges have to upgrade to compete. Combined with easy credit and many universities could keep raises rates and keep growing in enrollment.

I'm hoping Biden can get free K-14 passed. Community college cost structures aren't much different than high schools. It's just extending public education two years. Increase Pell grants to 1970 levels in regards to percentage of cost covered. And maybe we can regain world class status. 

 

[BigHurt3515]

I didn't realize I had Pell Grants. I have around $25K in student debt and now I believe I will now be down to $5k, my wife from $12K to $2K. Great news for us for our future but I am also a little worried about what effect this might have for the future with taxes and how exactly all this money will end up coming from. 

[Texsox]

@BigHurt3515 it's less than we'll send to Ukraine. Less than many business bailouts. Most of that money will be spent on taxable expenditures which will roll into businesses and eventually fund state and local governments. 

Money always flows towards money. The rich get richer and the government gets bigger. It is more efficient to just give it to the government and businesses directly, but with this the population gets to touch it for a moment. 

[greg775]

I'm happy for those who get relief as college is a lot more expensive than back in the day when my out of state tuition was 450 bucks total a semester at a large state school. Frat rent/meals also was cheap, cheap, cheap. 

I do feel for those who worked 3 jobs to pay off their loans. Since we're printing money, I wish we'd take care of those people too. it's really unfair IMO especially if taxpayers have to foot the bill. Some person who worked 3 jobs to pay off their loans now has to pay for others? Yikes. Unfair if that's the case. That was the rumor.

Finally I think college endowment funds, if they are over a billion dollars, should foot some of this bill not taxpayers. College costs are outrageous. I think any student who has a 'worthless major' should not go to college. Unless u have a certain career in mind and 'need' college and even law school, med school, just skip college. Lots of degrees mean nothing.

Peace (still seems like IT or HR is the way to go to make $$).

[BamaDoc]

I will try to avoid expressing anything controversial/political re the state of our education system.  We currently have huge shortages in truck drivers, welders, electricians, plumbers and a lot of the infrastructure type jobs that we need to rebuild our country.  I would rather we spent the money forgiving and/or incentivizing people to get trade school type training where they have a job with good pay and benefits waiting for them upon the completion of their training.  I feel this could provide a win for the people who gain the training and a win for those who will be paying that bill.

[CentralChamps21]

The high school graduation rate in the US is 86 percent, which is up from 79 percent ten years ago, but that's still 14 percent of US adults that never finished high school, and that's not even including those who die before they reach 18.

In our poorest areas, that are mostly but definitely not entirely urban, we have a cycle that needs to be broken.

Girls receive inadequate education about and access to birth control, which contributes to a high pregnancy rate among unwed/uncoupled young women.

Those women have to raise children with absent fathers, without the resources to both hold down a full time job and adequately raise children.

Pre-teen/early teen boys have no father in the home and a mother who can't stay home because public assistance is rarely adequate and even when it is she gets shamed for mooching off the government. This makes them easy targets for gangs.

Once sucked in by gangs, these kids are missing school, which is a terrible school anyway and it doesn't have the resources to try and keep them in school instead of on the streets.

Before they're old enough to drive, they're dealing drugs, stealing cars and committing gun violence, possibly in jail or dead before other kids their age are graduating from high school. Those that aren't in jail or dead are creating the next generation that will follow in their footsteps if we don't take serious action.

But yeah, let's prioritize forgiving college debt and making college more affordable, when making a difference in the poorest areas and having the next generation of kids graduating high school, holding jobs and paying taxes instead of taxing the criminal justice system.

I'm sure the fact that one party's largest voter base is people who graduated from college within the last 10 years is purely coincidental to why this got done.

[The Beast]

44 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

The high school graduation rate in the US is 86 percent, which is up from 79 percent ten years ago, but that's still 14 percent of US adults that never finished high school, and that's not even including those who die before they reach 18.

In our poorest areas, that are mostly but definitely not entirely urban, we have a cycle that needs to be broken.

Girls receive inadequate education about and access to birth control, which contributes to a high pregnancy rate among unwed/uncoupled young women.

Those women have to raise children with absent fathers, without the resources to both hold down a full time job and adequately raise children.

Pre-teen/early teen boys have no father in the home and a mother who can't stay home because public assistance is rarely adequate and even when it is she gets shamed for mooching off the government. This makes them easy targets for gangs.

Once sucked in by gangs, these kids are missing school, which is a terrible school anyway and it doesn't have the resources to try and keep them in school instead of on the streets.

Before they're old enough to drive, they're dealing drugs, stealing cars and committing gun violence, possibly in jail or dead before other kids their age are graduating from high school. Those that aren't in jail or dead are creating the next generation that will follow in their footsteps if we don't take serious action.

But yeah, let's prioritize forgiving college debt and making college more affordable, when making a difference in the poorest areas and having the next generation of kids graduating high school, holding jobs and paying taxes instead of taxing the criminal justice system.

I'm sure the fact that one party's largest voter base is people who graduated from college within the last 10 years is purely coincidental to why this got done.

Okay, how would congress or the private sector help these kids?

1 hour ago, BamaDoc said:

I will try to avoid expressing anything controversial/political re the state of our education system.  We currently have huge shortages in truck drivers, welders, electricians, plumbers and a lot of the infrastructure type jobs that we need to rebuild our country.  I would rather we spent the money forgiving and/or incentivizing people to get trade school type training where they have a job with good pay and benefits waiting for them upon the completion of their training.  I feel this could provide a win for the people who gain the training and a win for those who will be paying that bill.

It seems like there is the desire to do something about incentivizing those types of programs when it came to initiatives at community colleges, but there’s probably not agreement in congress to do anything significant about it.

[CentralChamps21]

5 minutes ago, The Beast said:

Okay, how would congress or the private sector help these kids?

For the 100 neighborhoods with the highest poverty rates:

Start with a massive investment in PreK-12 infrastructure so that every school is as nice as New Trier HS, including money to attract quality teachers and also for paraprofessionals to provide child care/academic help 6am-9pm 7 days a week outside school hours. This includes teams who specifically go after truant students and mentor them.

Neighborhood women's health clinics where girls as young as 13 can get education about and access to birth control.

Tax incentives to businesses who hire, train and provide living wages to parents with school age children, and also after school and summer jobs to HS students. Better public transit so those parents have more options for getting to jobs.

Drug education and treatment clinics to help reduce the demand for drugs.

Yes, this will cost trillions. It will pay for itself, but not for 20+ years when today's 3 year olds are taxpaying adults contributing to the economy instead of drug addicts and criminals draining it.

[Texsox]

It's less than we'll send to Ukraine. Call it a university bailout. 

Arguably Tesla is the most successful automobile manufacturer over the last ten years. So why are we paying millionaires a  $7,500 tax credit to buy a Tesla? 

 

 

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

I'm not against ensuring a living wage, but my plan has nothing to do with getting more people to college. It has to do with getting more people through high school, and leaving high school with the knowledge and life skills to live independently. I would imagine that trade/technical education would be a big part of it, but I just didn't go to that level of detail.

Part of it is hope. When you have little hope for a better life, what's the point?  

Edited August 28, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[CentralChamps21]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

Part of it is hope. When you have little hope for a better life, what's the point?  

Finishing high school is hope for a better life, whether that be via college or otherwise. There's not a lot of hope in the poorest areas right now.

[Jack Parkman]

8 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Finishing high school is hope for a better life, whether that be via college or otherwise. There's not a lot of hope in the poorest areas right now.

The bolded is my point exactly. 

The quality of education you get should not depend on your zip code. 
And while we're at it, make post-secondary education free as well, whether that be traditional college or trade school. 

Something that isn't talked about is the teacher-student ratio. We also need more schools in populated areas. Somewhere around 15-20 to 1 is ideal and most densely populated areas have 35+ to 1. It is unrealistic to meet each student's educational needs if there are 45 kids in one classroom. 

Edited August 28, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[CentralChamps21]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

The quality of education you get should not depend on your zip code. 

That was the entire point of my original plan. Did you read it before interjecting yourself into the middle of the conversation?

[Jack Parkman]

14 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

That was the entire point of my original plan. Did you read it before interjecting yourself into the middle of the conversation?

Yes, I know. I was expanding on that about teacher-student ratio. 

My mom was a teacher in a lower middle class/working poor area and we'd have discussions about what stuff she'd get and the rich kids in the district would get. I'm well aware. The rich kids got tablets and such, the other kids got outdated biology textbooks that had a very early grasp of HIV, for example.

When I was in HS 20 years ago, in the poorer schools they were still using textbooks from the early 80s.  
When my mom retired in 2014, they were using textbooks from the mid-90s.

I don't have firsthand experience anymore but it seems like the kids from the lower class schools get the rich school's hand-me-downs. 

Also, besides the info, wealthier areas would have 20 kids in a class, while others would get 40+. 

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[Quin]

Keep this thread civil.

[pettie4sox]

Just applied for debt relief, and requested a refund for payments made during COVID.  It will be a nice influx of cash coming!

[The Beast]

On 10/18/2022 at 3:13 PM, pettie4sox said:

Just applied for debt relief, and requested a refund for payments made during COVID.  It will be a nice influx of cash coming!

Hopefully you get it before any court decision blocks any of the EO. Let us know how it goes!

[pettie4sox]

2 hours ago, The Beast said:

Hopefully you get it before any court decision blocks any of the EO. Let us know how it goes!

If they do that, you'll have riots.  1000%  

[Texsox]

My hunch is many people will swap that debt for other debt. House. Car. More education. Financed furniture. Vacations. Home repairs. Life. 

But some will invest. Save. I know one family that is moving that money to their kid's education fund so he won't have the same issues they had. I really liked hearing that. Using the solution to avoid the same problem later. 

I was chatting with a couple who is inclined to be anti relief. I pointed out it was less than the government incentives that were given to them to buy two EVs from "the most successful car maker in history". They {quietly} drove off. 

Everyone loves to receive. 

[Texsox]

I know one thing. You give money to people that already have a debt free existence without worrying about their subsidence and they may spend it or they may save it. It may move to the middle and lower incomes. 

Give money to the middle and lower incomes and it will get spent quickly and head up to the upper income folks. So let's allow the 95% to touch it for a moment. 

[Balta1701]

3 hours ago, Texsox said:

My hunch is many people will swap that debt for other debt. House. Car. More education. Financed furniture. Vacations. Home repairs. Life. 

But some will invest. Save. I know one family that is moving that money to their kid's education fund so he won't have the same issues they had. I really liked hearing that. Using the solution to avoid the same problem later. 

I was chatting with a couple who is inclined to be anti relief. I pointed out it was less than the government incentives that were given to them to buy two EVs from "the most successful car maker in history". They {quietly} drove off. 

Everyone loves to receive. 

How exactly does "Swapping student debt for a house purchase" get stated to not be an investment? 

[Texsox]

18 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

How exactly does "Swapping student debt for a house purchase" get stated to not be an investment? 

It's also an investment of course. Thank you for pointing it out. 

 

[RTC]

On 8/28/2022 at 7:32 AM, Texsox said:

It's less than we'll send to Ukraine. Call it a university bailout. 

Arguably Tesla is the most successful automobile manufacturer over the last ten years. So why are we paying millionaires a  $7,500 tax credit to buy a Tesla? 

 

 

For the record, Teslas don’t qualify because they exceed the production volume quota.  That said, I get your point 100%