Garrett Richards to Boston, 1 year $10 million.

[South Side Hit Men]

18 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

Again I ask any of you challenging me... do you really think trading for 1 year of Lynn isn't a win now move? Of fucking course it is.

See it more of a placate Tony move or move dictated by Tony, like the other two moves this off-season. Adding Wainright, Molina and or Pujols would only provide further confirmation. Lynn would have made more sense last year entering the playoffs. Hoping one of the two one year deals pans out better than Parrot/Mazara. I definitely do not want to extend Lynn unless they plan on significantly bumping payroll. They already have too much $ commited to mid 30s + players the next two years (Grandal, Keuchel), and the focus should be locking up Lucas and Tim.

[CentralChamps21]

What other unemployed starters can we help get signed by another team by starting a thread about them here?

[RagahRagah]

5 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Why can’t it just be that Lynn improves our team this year, and we feel that Dunning is replaceable in the rotation because of our other young arms?

Because that's not smart.

[RagahRagah]

3 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

See it more of a placate Tony move or move dictated by Tony, like the other two moves this off-season. Adding Wainright, Molina and or Pujols would only provide further confirmation. Lynn would have made more sense last year entering the playoffs. Hoping one of the two one year deals pans out better than Parrot/Mazara. I definitely do not want to extend Lynn unless they plan on significantly bumping payroll. They already have too much $ commited to mid 30s + players the next two years (Grandal, Keuchel), and the focus should be locking up Lucas and Tim.

If they sign him to an extension I'll gladly rescind. He is super solid. But he isn't going to be enough. If it's just merely "he improves our rotation" I would have rather continued developing Dunning. 

[bmags]

4 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

What other unemployed starters can we help get signed by another team by starting a thread about them here?

Tanaka deserves a job. We should help him.

[SoxBlanco]

3 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

Because that's not smart.

If they truly believe Dunning won’t be in the rotation from 2022 and on, then it’s not dumb to improve your chances at winning the World Series this year. 

[RagahRagah]

3 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

If they truly believe Dunning won’t be in the rotation from 2022 and on, then it’s not dumb to improve your chances at winning the World Series this year. 

If they won't pay money to acquire a quality arm now, why wouldn't they give him the opportunity? Who is gonna take Lynn's spot in 2022? He was quality from the get-go and seemed likely to get better.

Notice that what this all winds around to is the Sox being cheap.

[Jerksticks]

1 minute ago, RagahRagah said:

If they won't pay money to acquire a quality arm now, why wouldn't they give him the opportunity? Who is gonna take Lynn's spot in 2022? He was quality from the get-go and seemed likely to get better.

Notice that what this all winds around to is the Sox being cheap.

Dude.  They don’t want to rebuild this year and let Dunning throw 100 innings of unknown quality.  That doesn’t help the White Sox this year.  Lynn is going to probably throw 200+ Badass innings.  
 

You’re trying to argue that they gave up 6 years of good pitching for 1 year of good pitching.  That’s simply not true. 

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Dude.  They don’t want to rebuild this year and let Dunning throw 100 innings of unknown quality.  That doesn’t help the White Sox this year.  Lynn is going to probably throw 200+ Badass innings.  
 

You’re trying to argue that they gave up 6 years of good pitching for 1 year of good pitching.  That’s simply not true. 

We will be lucky if anyone pitches 100 innings at the rate things are going...

[South Side Hit Men]

10 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

If they sign him to an extension I'll gladly rescind. He is super solid. But he isn't going to be enough. If it's just merely "he improves our rotation" I would have rather continued developing Dunning. 

Where is the money going to come from? Would you sign him and let Lucas and or Anderson walk? If Lynn is "super solid", or even just solid, he will get a significant bump in salary ($15M +,) at age 35. May also take 2-3 years as well.

if Keuchel doesn't vest for 2023 (needs to reach 160 IP each of the next two seasons), it might work. I'm hoping Keuchel is down several weeks at some point to avoid vesting. If Keuchel vests, the Sox are near $60M in 2023 for mid 30s plus Grandal, Keuchel and Lynn alone, nearly half the current payroll. And the core (Eloy, Tim, Lucas. Luis, Yoan), the reason the team is actually considered a contender at this point, will be paid much more.

The math doesn't work, just like the math never made sense to pursue Machado, Springer, Bauer, etc.. Unless there is a change in ownership (JR is 84, theoretically not immortal), or the Sox strike lightening like 16 years ago and win a WS and jack up subsequent ticket sales and payrolls (Sox were 5th in MLB 2006-2008), the Sox can't afford Lynn through 2023/24. It's the reason why I would have preferred they kept Dunning and signed a Quintana or other similarly priced FA. If they don't get Cease and/or Kopech to step up to be a #2 or #3, it's not likely they win a WS anyway. 

[RagahRagah]

9 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Dude.  They don’t want to rebuild this year and let Dunning throw 100 innings of unknown quality.  That doesn’t help the White Sox this year.  Lynn is going to probably throw 200+ Badass innings.  
 

You’re trying to argue that they gave up 6 years of good pitching for 1 year of good pitching.  That’s simply not true. 

That all remains to be seen. What is the point? Just spend some fucking money and sign Bauer. Then it makes some sense. 6 years of a ptlotential great starter for a good pitcher who will not be complimented well enough is pointless. 

Again, the point here again is cheaping out.

[RagahRagah]

1 minute ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Where is the money going to come from? Would you sign him and let Lucas and or Anderson walk? If Lynn is "super solid", or even just solid, he will get a significant bump in salary ($15M +,) at age 35. May also take 2-3 years as well.

if Keuchel doesn't vest for 2023 (needs to reach 160 IP each of the next two seasons), it might work. I'm hoping Keuchel is down several weeks at some point to avoid vesting. If Keuchel vests, the Sox are near $60M in 2023 for mid 30s plus Grandal, Keuchel and Lynn alone, nearly half the current payroll. And the core (Eloy, Tim, Lucas. Luis, Yoan), the reason the team is actually considered a contender at this point, will be paid much more.

The math doesn't work, just like the math never made sense to pursue Machado, Springer, Bauer, etc.. Unless there is a change in ownership (JR is 84, theoretically not immortal), or the Sox strike lightening like 16 years ago and win a WS and jack up subsequent ticket sales and payrolls (Sox were 5th in MLB 2006-2008), the Sox can't afford Lynn through 2023/24. It's the reason why I would have preferred they kept Dunning and signed a Quintana or other similarly priced FA. If they don't get Cease and/or Kopech to step up to be a #2 or #3, it's not likely they win a WS anyway. 

You're highlighting the entire problem: not spending money. They can spend it, they just don't want to. Which pretty much renders ALL of this pointless. 

[southsider2k5]

43 minutes ago, Vulture said:

All in means putting all your chips in. Dunning is not all the chips ffs

 

40 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

What would constitute putting all the chips in?

We traded 6 years of a young pitcher who was  owing along well and had high potential and more for 1 year. Trazing that kind of quality control for 1 year of someone is either going all in or being stupid. Pick 1.

[RagahRagah]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

I love when people need to play stupid like this. Some of you are so good at being selective and dodging.

Like I said, give me an example of what "all our chips" would be. We can't even sign a quality starter to complement Lynn. Why not just let Dunning pitch then? He would likely keep improving.

But again, this is all moot because JR just won't have any balls.

Edited January 24, 2021 by RagahRagah

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

I love when people need to play stupid like this. Some of you are so good at being selective and dodging.

Like I said, give me an example of what "all our chips" would be. We can't even sign a quality starter to complement Lynn. Why not just let Dunning pitch then? He would likely keep improving.

But again, this is all moot because JR just won't have any balls.

One not top rated prospect starter and a mediocre spending isn't "all in". Again,  for someone who talks loud about comprehension, your answer is in your own words. 

A PITCHER.

Not even close to the highest rated one we have.

Not Kopech.

Not Cease.

Not Kelley.

Not Crochet.

Not Vaughn.

But all in.  With A pitcher.

This is disingenuous at best.

[RagahRagah]

9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

One not top rated prospect starter and a mediocre spending isn't "all in". Again,  for someone who talks loud about comprehension, your answer is in your own words. 

A PITCHER.

Not even close to the highest rated one we have.

Not Kopech.

Not Cease.

Not Kelley.

Not Crochet.

Not Vaughn.

But all in.  With A pitcher.

This is disingenuous at best.

You're still not getting the point.

Trading control of a quality player for one year of someone is a win now move. Listing other players has nothing to do with this. And the Sox aren't even going to compliment that move with any other starters? So who are we kidding?

Has it also occurred to you that when Lynn is long gone that if Dunning has blossomed and we now have him in addition to those other names? That is how you build a roster and a farm system and make moves like the ones the Padres have made. And guess what? They still have a plentiful farm system. And they made numerous moves to make a push. That is not what we are apparently doing when it's what we need to do, and apparently the narrative the Sox are trying to sell us (If we make further impact moves I will apologize to you).

I get where you are coming from, I really do. But it's shortsighted.

Edited January 24, 2021 by RagahRagah

[Jerksticks]

Dunning is not a quality player.  Why don’t you get that.  Maybe he becomes one in a few years?  Anything is possible

[RagahRagah]

4 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Dunning is not a quality player.  Why don’t you get that.  Maybe he becomes one in a few years?  Anything is possible

He was a prospect. He came up and looked good and was getting plenty of love here. And was supported after the mismanagement vs. Oakland. 

But suddenly he isn't quality. Lol.

And yeah. Maybe he "becomes one in a few years," in which... I covered how that obviously helps us.

What it comes down to is JR needs to allow us to get big names.

Edited January 24, 2021 by RagahRagah

[caulfield12]

48 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

That all remains to be seen. What is the point? Just spend some fucking money and sign Bauer. Then it makes some sense. 6 years of a ptlotential great starter for a good pitcher who will not be complimented well enough is pointless. 

Again, the point here again is cheaping out.

Here’s where evaluation comes into play.  God knows we’ve made plenty of mistakes (just having Bassitt and Montas could have staved off the rebuild, let alone Semien), but Dunning was never perceived to have that TOR upside of Kopech/Cease or Crochet and Jared Kelley.  Plus, his age (26) worked a bit against him as well.  A decade ago, his stuff would have played well as a starter, but not in the current game.  While some starters can still succeed at 92-93, touching 94...the odds are going against those guys unless they can pitch in short bursts at higher velocity out of the pen.   Otherwise, you’ve got to have wicked movement, difficult to pick up delivery or the type of extension Giolito gets with that massive frame and arm whip...where the ball is on you before you can react.

Edited January 24, 2021 by caulfield12

[Holes in my Sox]

6 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

It would never happen, but I did find it funny that both Flaherty and Giolito liked my friend's tweet the other day that joked about Flaherty teaming with Giolito and signing with the Sox in 2024

Yeah, I know it wouldn’t happen.  I was just thinking out loud, so to speak.  The Cards need to get younger, the Sox rotation with Flaherty would be amazing, and I don’t think Flaherty sticks with St. Louis once his opportunity to leave comes.  

[Jerksticks]

20 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Here’s where evaluation comes into play.  God knows we’ve made plenty of mistakes (just having Bassitt and Montas could have staved off the rebuild, let alone Semien), but Dunning was never perceived to have that TOR upside of Kopech/Cease or Crochet and Jared Kelley.  Plus, his age (26) worked a bit against him as well.  A decade ago, his stuff would have played well as a starter, but not in the current game.  While some starters can still succeed at 92-93, touching 94...the odds are going against those guys unless they can pitch in short bursts at higher velocity out of the pen.   Otherwise, you’ve got to have wicked movement, difficult to pick up delivery or the type of extension Giolito gets with that massive frame and arm whip...where the ball is on you before you can react.

Exactly.  Why spend the coaching resources and the rotation spot on the guy topping out at 93 when you got ACTUAL PROSPECTS banging down the door.   Sox just turned that chump, 3rd piece of a trade into Lance fucking Lynn.  What a homerun of a trade.  
 

This Dunning fluffing is getting ridiculous. 

Edited January 24, 2021 by Jerksticks

[RagahRagah]

1 minute ago, Jerksticks said:

Exactly.  Why spend the coaching resources and the rotation spot on the guy topping out at 93 when you got ACTUAL PROSPECTS banging down the door.   Sox just turned that chump, 3rd piece of a trade into Lance fucking Lynn.  What a homerun of a trade.  
 

This Dunning fluffing is getting ridiculous. 

If the Sox use him for someone with at least a 1 more of control, no one would complain. 

Pretending Dunning wasn't anything is unfair. 

And as I was saying pertaining to keeping your farm system plentiful, that is also pertinent. People don't want to think long term. 

1 year of Lynn and no additional SP upgrades is not winning us a World Series.

[Balta1701]

31 minutes ago, Holes in my Sox said:

Yeah, I know it wouldn’t happen.  I was just thinking out loud, so to speak.  The Cards need to get younger, the Sox rotation with Flaherty would be amazing, and I don’t think Flaherty sticks with St. Louis once his opportunity to leave comes.  

Someone has to win the NL central next year by default, unfortunately. Otherwise I’d be considering that concept.

[Balta1701]

13 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

If the Sox use him for someone with at least a 1 more of control, no one would complain. 

Pretending Dunning wasn't anything is unfair. 

And as I was saying pertaining to keeping your farm system plentiful, that is also pertinent. People don't want to think long term. 

1 year of Lynn and no additional SP upgrades is not winning us a World Series.

If the White Sox were also adding everything they needed in addition to Lynn, no one would say it made no sense. Hendricks was absolutely ideal. But we’ve seen Quintana and Richards both sign elsewhere in the last 2 days when you could make a case for either of them as a solid fit for this franchise at a reasonable cost, and they definitely still need a pitcher out of a winnowing field. Sign Bauer and that becomes no issue, but if they let him go, we’re getting down to scraps left over.

[SoxBlanco]

8 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

When do we regain the extra year of control with Kopech?

Did anybody answer this question?