Garrett Richards to Boston, 1 year $10 million.

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Did anybody answer this question?

Kopech did not reveal his personal decisionmaking process in the announcement. Pursuant to the modified rules for the 2020 season, players have the exclusive right to opt out without penalty. Those that have a particular medical basis for the decision can retain their salary and service time; others sacrifice those things.

It’s not clear in this case whether Kopech will continue to accrue service time in the 2020 season. If not, the 24-year-old will begin the 2021 campaign with just over one full season of MLB service.

 

that’s all i could find at mlbtraderumors.com

[Balta1701]

10 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Did anybody answer this question?

Kopech has 1.041 years of service time. That means he has 41 days of big league service time. A full year for salary purposes includes 172 days of service time, and right now an MLB season is 187 days long. That means Kopech needs to stay at AAA for 56 days this year to get that year of service time back. That puts his callup date at or near May 26, give or take whatever weird rules I don’t know. Keep him at AAA until May 27, give or take a couple days at most due to those legal errors I don’t know, and you get that year of control back.

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Kopech has 1.041 years of service time. That means he has 41 days of big league service time. A full year for salary purposes includes 172 days of service time, and right now an MLB season is 187 days long. That means Kopech needs to stay at AAA for 56 days this year to get that year of service time back. That puts his Gallup date at or near May 26, give or take whatever weird rules I don’t know. Keep him at AAA until May 27, give or take a couple days at most due to those legal errors I don’t know, and you get that year of control back.

I think he gets called up sometime in the first 10 days of June. 

Edited January 24, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, RagahRagah said:

You're still not getting the point.

Trading control of a quality player for one year of someone is a win now move. Listing other players has nothing to do with this. And the Sox aren't even going to compliment that move with any other starters? So who are we kidding?

Has it also occurred to you that when Lynn is long gone that if Dunning has blossomed and we now have him in addition to those other names? That is how you build a roster and a farm system and make moves like the ones the Padres have made. And guess what? They still have a plentiful farm system. And they made numerous moves to make a push. That is not what we are apparently doing when it's what we need to do, and apparently the narrative the Sox are trying to sell us (If we make further impact moves I will apologize to you).

I get where you are coming from, I really do. But it's shortsighted.

I actually mentioned that when the trade took place.  Then again I didn't call it an all in trade, and then try to reframe the argument when it blew up.

[RagahRagah]

9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I actually mentioned that when the trade took place.  Then again I didn't call it an all in trade, and then try to reframe the argument when it blew up.

I don't see that I reframed anything. Perhaps is wasn't the best way to word it. But the move is definitely indicative of going for it this year. But if they can't (won't) make any additional significant upgrades then obviously they aren't. In that case we should have just got someone with more control than 1 year.

Edited January 24, 2021 by RagahRagah

[RagahRagah]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

If the White Sox were also adding everything they needed in addition to Lynn, no one would say it made no sense. Hendricks was absolutely ideal. But we’ve seen Quintana and Richards both sign elsewhere in the last 2 days when you could make a case for either of them as a solid fit for this franchise at a reasonable cost, and they definitely still need a pitcher out of a winnowing field. Sign Bauer and that becomes no issue, but if they let him go, we’re getting down to scraps left over.

You have a point. But when things happen in a way that constantly make us look foolish, there has to be blame. Again, at least trade for someone with some control. OR make a trade like this AFTER solidifying the adding of a new long term complimentary asset.

If so many of us can figure some of this stuff out, why can't they?

[VAfan]

2 hours ago, RagahRagah said:

You're still not getting the point.

Trading control of a quality player for one year of someone is a win now move. Listing other players has nothing to do with this. And the Sox aren't even going to compliment that move with any other starters? So who are we kidding?

Has it also occurred to you that when Lynn is long gone that if Dunning has blossomed and we now have him in addition to those other names? That is how you build a roster and a farm system and make moves like the ones the Padres have made. And guess what? They still have a plentiful farm system. And they made numerous moves to make a push. That is not what we are apparently doing when it's what we need to do, and apparently the narrative the Sox are trying to sell us (If we make further impact moves I will apologize to you).

I get where you are coming from, I really do. But it's shortsighted.

I have a few problems with your argument.

1. Why is this in a Garrett Richards thread? If Garrett Richards the "all in" move you are advocating? The Sox may need more pitching depth, but Garrett Richards is not a serious difference maker for an "all in" strategy. He pitched 51 innings last year with a 4.03 ERA. Not that exciting. Before that, he hasn't pitched more than 76 innings in any season back to 2015. That's 4 years of nothing. 

2. As you have admitted, Lynn is not a trash move if the Sox extend him. So you are making a big deal about something in the future which may or may not happen. Obviously the Sox would be in no position to extend Lynn if they hadn't traded for him, so they have at least taken that first step.

3. You miss the point that without Lynn the Sox would be in much worse shape. Lynn has been a solid 200 IP pitcher lately, and could be expected to post those innings again this year. Dunning would have been a 5th starter at best, and if the Sox made another move to acquire a pitcher like Lynn, could well have been pushed back to AAA in reserve. Like many of the people who opposed the Lynn trade, you seem to be overvaluing Dunning. 

4. Moreover, when the Sox make the postseason, Lynn is world's better than Dunning, who wasn't trusted to pitch even a full inning last year. 

5. Name a better pitcher than Lynn who was acquired this offseason via trade or in free agency who was acquired for less than Lance Lynn. The Snell trade gave up a lot more assets. Yu Darvish was acquired for less than Snell, but his contract was nearly triple that of Lynn's -- $22M, $19M, $18M over the next 3 years. Would you have rather traded Dunning for Yu Darvish given the Sox payroll structure? To acquire Darvish, the Sox would have had to give up Dunning, and the salary cost would have meant not being able to acquire other players. The difference between Darvish and Lynn this year is MORE than Hendrik's salary, for example. 

I will agree with you to some extent. I believe the Sox need to do more this year to put themselves in the best position to win the division, pennant, and World Series.

But I don't think Garrett Richards was that move. 

I really wanted the Sox to go after Corey Kluber. He may not have signed with the Sox for the $11M the Yankees paid. Would he have signed with us for $13M? Do the Sox have $13M more to spend? I hope so, but it's not my money.

When Kluber was healthy in 2018, he was better than any pitcher the Sox have now. He has a great postseason track record. It would have weakened our chief AL rival - the Yankees. He was a consistent 200 IP pitcher until he was hurt the last 2 years. 

I'm not sure any pitcher that is left at this point moves the needle. I expect the Sox to make another Gio Gonzalez type move to add someone who can battle Lopez for the right to cover the beginning of the year while Kopech is held back to regain a year of control, and to potentially stretch him out so he could pitch in October. I don't want to trade more assets for a better starter because that just robs Peter to pay Paul. The Sox finally have a deep lineup of controlled stars. They need to keep them and win with offense. 

My overall take is that the Sox are not finished adding. We just have to wait and see who that turns out to be. 

[RagahRagah]

1 hour ago, VAfan said:

I have a few problems with your argument.

1. Why is this in a Garrett Richards thread? If Garrett Richards the "all in" move you are advocating? The Sox may need more pitching depth, but Garrett Richards is not a serious difference maker for an "all in" strategy. He pitched 51 innings last year with a 4.03 ERA. Not that exciting. Before that, he hasn't pitched more than 76 innings in any season back to 2015. That's 4 years of nothing. 

2. As you have admitted, Lynn is not a trash move if the Sox extend him. So you are making a big deal about something in the future which may or may not happen. Obviously the Sox would be in no position to extend Lynn if they hadn't traded for him, so they have at least taken that first step.

3. You miss the point that without Lynn the Sox would be in much worse shape. Lynn has been a solid 200 IP pitcher lately, and could be expected to post those innings again this year. Dunning would have been a 5th starter at best, and if the Sox made another move to acquire a pitcher like Lynn, could well have been pushed back to AAA in reserve. Like many of the people who opposed the Lynn trade, you seem to be overvaluing Dunning. 

4. Moreover, when the Sox make the postseason, Lynn is world's better than Dunning, who wasn't trusted to pitch even a full inning last year. 

5. Name a better pitcher than Lynn who was acquired this offseason via trade or in free agency who was acquired for less than Lance Lynn. The Snell trade gave up a lot more assets. Yu Darvish was acquired for less than Snell, but his contract was nearly triple that of Lynn's -- $22M, $19M, $18M over the next 3 years. Would you have rather traded Dunning for Yu Darvish given the Sox payroll structure? To acquire Darvish, the Sox would have had to give up Dunning, and the salary cost would have meant not being able to acquire other players. The difference between Darvish and Lynn this year is MORE than Hendrik's salary, for example. 

I will agree with you to some extent. I believe the Sox need to do more this year to put themselves in the best position to win the division, pennant, and World Series.

But I don't think Garrett Richards was that move. 

I really wanted the Sox to go after Corey Kluber. He may not have signed with the Sox for the $11M the Yankees paid. Would he have signed with us for $13M? Do the Sox have $13M more to spend? I hope so, but it's not my money.

When Kluber was healthy in 2018, he was better than any pitcher the Sox have now. He has a great postseason track record. It would have weakened our chief AL rival - the Yankees. He was a consistent 200 IP pitcher until he was hurt the last 2 years. 

I'm not sure any pitcher that is left at this point moves the needle. I expect the Sox to make another Gio Gonzalez type move to add someone who can battle Lopez for the right to cover the beginning of the year while Kopech is held back to regain a year of control, and to potentially stretch him out so he could pitch in October. I don't want to trade more assets for a better starter because that just robs Peter to pay Paul. The Sox finally have a deep lineup of controlled stars. They need to keep them and win with offense. 

My overall take is that the Sox are not finished adding. We just have to wait and see who that turns out to be. 

Somehow Lynn came into the conversation. I'm not a fan of Richards either and I agree, and that is part of my argument; Lynn needs more difference makers working with him this year. Seems likely he won't get any. I was hoping for Kluber as well. If only JR would just pull the trigger on Bauer.

I, like others, am just tired of having my intelligence insulted when I can easily see I'm being lied to.

[Chicago White Sox]

7 hours ago, RagahRagah said:

You have a point. But when things happen in a way that constantly make us look foolish, there has to be blame. Again, at least trade for someone with some control. OR make a trade like this AFTER solidifying the adding of a new long term complimentary asset.

If so many of us can figure some of this stuff out, why can't they?

An asset with controllable would have cost a lot more than Dane Dunnning.

[michelangelosmonkey]

7 hours ago, VAfan said:

I have a few problems with your argument.

1. Why is this in a Garrett Richards thread? If Garrett Richards the "all in" move you are advocating? The Sox may need more pitching depth, but Garrett Richards is not a serious difference maker for an "all in" strategy. He pitched 51 innings last year with a 4.03 ERA. Not that exciting. Before that, he hasn't pitched more than 76 innings in any season back to 2015. That's 4 years of nothing. 

2. As you have admitted, Lynn is not a trash move if the Sox extend him. So you are making a big deal about something in the future which may or may not happen. Obviously the Sox would be in no position to extend Lynn if they hadn't traded for him, so they have at least taken that first step.

3. You miss the point that without Lynn the Sox would be in much worse shape. Lynn has been a solid 200 IP pitcher lately, and could be expected to post those innings again this year. Dunning would have been a 5th starter at best, and if the Sox made another move to acquire a pitcher like Lynn, could well have been pushed back to AAA in reserve. Like many of the people who opposed the Lynn trade, you seem to be overvaluing Dunning. 

4. Moreover, when the Sox make the postseason, Lynn is world's better than Dunning, who wasn't trusted to pitch even a full inning last year. 

5. Name a better pitcher than Lynn who was acquired this offseason via trade or in free agency who was acquired for less than Lance Lynn. The Snell trade gave up a lot more assets. Yu Darvish was acquired for less than Snell, but his contract was nearly triple that of Lynn's -- $22M, $19M, $18M over the next 3 years. Would you have rather traded Dunning for Yu Darvish given the Sox payroll structure? To acquire Darvish, the Sox would have had to give up Dunning, and the salary cost would have meant not being able to acquire other players. The difference between Darvish and Lynn this year is MORE than Hendrik's salary, for example. 

I will agree with you to some extent. I believe the Sox need to do more this year to put themselves in the best position to win the division, pennant, and World Series.

But I don't think Garrett Richards was that move. 

I really wanted the Sox to go after Corey Kluber. He may not have signed with the Sox for the $11M the Yankees paid. Would he have signed with us for $13M? Do the Sox have $13M more to spend? I hope so, but it's not my money.

When Kluber was healthy in 2018, he was better than any pitcher the Sox have now. He has a great postseason track record. It would have weakened our chief AL rival - the Yankees. He was a consistent 200 IP pitcher until he was hurt the last 2 years. 

I'm not sure any pitcher that is left at this point moves the needle. I expect the Sox to make another Gio Gonzalez type move to add someone who can battle Lopez for the right to cover the beginning of the year while Kopech is held back to regain a year of control, and to potentially stretch him out so he could pitch in October. I don't want to trade more assets for a better starter because that just robs Peter to pay Paul. The Sox finally have a deep lineup of controlled stars. They need to keep them and win with offense. 

My overall take is that the Sox are not finished adding. We just have to wait and see who that turns out to be. 

This was wonderfully said.  I would say that I'm not sure the Sox go after a GG type pitcher.  I would also love to see them sign Bauer but the larger point is that they need five starters.  Right now they have three chiseled in...Gio, Dallas, LL (5,6 and 7 in CY Young voting).  You have Cease etched in...for all the trash he takes he was 5-4 last year with a 4.01 ERA...and with natural improvement as he ages and a new smart guy pitching coach it sure seems like he could get much better.  So that leaves a fifth spot...do we really want to clog up that spot with a Garret Richards type...when we have Kopech ready?  OK he's not going to be a 200 innings guy but having a Tampa Bay type "starter" game with Kopech for three followed by Crochett by three...what team wants to face that?  Who wouldn't pay to watch that? And as our FIFTH starter?   As for an emergency starter...we have our own reclamation product in Reylo...he has tons of natural ability and again...new modern pitching coach.  I think they are set for war...the lineup looks great, the defense looks great, the relief staff looks great...and I kind of think the starters look great.   Save the Bauer money for extensions to Gio and Lynn and let's head to spring training.  Re-evaluate at the trade deadline.         

[Y2Jimmy0]

9 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Kopech did not reveal his personal decisionmaking process in the announcement. Pursuant to the modified rules for the 2020 season, players have the exclusive right to opt out without penalty. Those that have a particular medical basis for the decision can retain their salary and service time; others sacrifice those things.

It’s not clear in this case whether Kopech will continue to accrue service time in the 2020 season. If not, the 24-year-old will begin the 2021 campaign with just over one full season of MLB service.

 

that’s all i could find at mlbtraderumors.com

Michael Kopech gave up a year of service. He’s under team control for 5 seasons. The White Sox could manipulate that further and make it so its 2021 and 5 more seasons but it’s quite a bit of time and I don’t want to do the math. I think Kopech starts in minors but we see him pretty quickly. 

[SoxBlanco]

25 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Michael Kopech gave up a year of service. He’s under team control for 5 seasons. The White Sox could manipulate that further and make it so its 2021 and 5 more seasons but it’s quite a bit of time and I don’t want to do the math. I think Kopech starts in minors but we see him pretty quickly. 

If we do see him pretty quickly, then wouldn’t we have to shut him down at some point and lose him for the playoffs? Or will he be making 3 inning starts on the big league club when he’s first called up?

[Balta1701]

10 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Kopech has 1.041 years of service time. That means he has 41 days of big league service time. A full year for salary purposes includes 172 days of service time, and right now an MLB season is 187 days long. That means Kopech needs to stay at AAA for 56 days this year to get that year of service time back. That puts his callup date at or near May 26, give or take whatever weird rules I don’t know. Keep him at AAA until May 27, give or take a couple days at most due to those legal errors I don’t know, and you get that year of control back.

 

34 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Michael Kopech gave up a year of service. He’s under team control for 5 seasons. The White Sox could manipulate that further and make it so its 2021 and 5 more seasons but it’s quite a bit of time and I don’t want to do the math. I think Kopech starts in minors but we see him pretty quickly. 

Math was a few posts ago

[SonofaRoache]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

 

Math was a few posts ago

The Sox should just call him up June 1st. Nice easy date and sounds very justifiable as well. Still need to not look completely like a time manipulation and innings limit, even if it is. 

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Michael Kopech gave up a year of service. He’s under team control for 5 seasons. The White Sox could manipulate that further and make it so its 2021 and 5 more seasons but it’s quite a bit of time and I don’t want to do the math. I think Kopech starts in minors but we see him pretty quickly. 

How many innings do you think we can expect out of him next year?

[Bob Sacamano]

2 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Michael Kopech gave up a year of service. He’s under team control for 5 seasons. The White Sox could manipulate that further and make it so its 2021 and 5 more seasons but it’s quite a bit of time and I don’t want to do the math. I think Kopech starts in minors but we see him pretty quickly.

This means we probably sign someone who isn't doing well then. The current options are making it seem like this is likely (barring trade).

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, SoxBlanco said:

If we do see him pretty quickly, then wouldn’t we have to shut him down at some point and lose him for the playoffs? Or will he be making 3 inning starts on the big league club when he’s first called up?

That’s what I’m worried about.  Typically minor league seasons start a little bit after the majors (Charlotte started a week after the Sox in 2019), so that helps to some extent, although probably more on the service side of things if Kopech ends up being the Knights’ #1 starter.  Let’s assume we keep him down until June 1st to regain that extra year of service time, that means he’d likely make ~10 starts for Charlotte and then ~20 starts for the Sox.  His career high in innings is 140 in 2018, but that seems aggressive for a guy who hasn’t pitched in two years.  Can he potentially do 120 next year?  If so, you’re looking at roughly 4 IP per start across both the minors & majors.  To me, you have to find a way to start him off real slow at Charlotte so that when he comes up he can go 5 IP per start with the Sox.  That’s going to be a challenge, but the more time he spends down in the Charlotte the easier it will be to pull off.

[RagahRagah]

5 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

An asset with controllable would have cost a lot more than Dane Dunnning.

I understand that, and that is fine.

[poppysox]

12 hours ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

This was wonderfully said.  I would say that I'm not sure the Sox go after a GG type pitcher.  I would also love to see them sign Bauer but the larger point is that they need five starters.  Right now they have three chiseled in...Gio, Dallas, LL (5,6 and 7 in CY Young voting).  You have Cease etched in...for all the trash he takes he was 5-4 last year with a 4.01 ERA...and with natural improvement as he ages and a new smart guy pitching coach it sure seems like he could get much better.  So that leaves a fifth spot...do we really want to clog up that scpot with a Garret Richards type...when we have Kopech ready?  OK he's not going to be a 200 innings guy but having a Tampa Bay type "starter" game with Kopech for threefollowed by Crochett by three...what team wants to face that?  Who wouldn't pay to watch that? And as our FIFTH starter?   As for an emergency starter...we have our own reclamation product in Reylo...he has tons of natural ability and again...new modern pitching coach.  I think they are set for war...the lineup looks great, the defense looks great, the relief staff looks great...and I kind of think the starters look great.   Save the Bauer money for extensions to Gio and Lynn and let's head to spring training.  Re-evaluate at the trade deadline.         

Need to settle the DH and catcher issues but I think this is the correct take on where we are today.