'21 rules discussions

[southsider2k5]

 

[Buehrle>Wood]

Awful

[Bob Sacamano]

The DH should have been sorted out months ago.

[ptatc]

13 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

The DH should have been sorted out months ago.

This won't be because it is a decidedly an advantage for the union. The ones in the article above benefit both sides.

[flavum]

38 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

The DH should have been sorted out months ago.

Manfred says prepare for 162 and spring training starting on time, but no clarity on the DH five weeks away from spring training...that's MLB in a nutshell.

They both want the DH, but the owners want to hold out for leverage to get something else.

7-inning doubleheaders...never liked them, but understood why they did it last year. if they do it again, I hope it's for the same reason and when the pandemic is over they go back to 9-inning games, because that's what major league players play. 

Runner on 2nd in extras...ridiculously stupid, but again, understand why they did things to shorten the amount of time at the park.  My compromise...play real baseball in the 10th and 11th inning, and start the man on 2nd in the 12th inning,  Better yet, only play real baseball, but have ties after 12 innings in the regular season. Half point in each of the win and loss columns.

Expanded postseason-- understand why they did it last year, but 162 is the test, and the postseason should be for the teams that excelled over six months. I think 5 out of 15 in Baseball is perfect. I could live with 6 in each league, but wouldn't like it.  Anything more than 6 is really bad. 

 

Edited January 16, 2021 by flavum

[ptatc]

2 minutes ago, flavum said:

Manfred says prepare for 162 and spring training starting on time, but no clarity on the DH five weeks away from spring training...that's MLB in a nutshell.

They both want the DH, but the owners want to hold out for leverage to get something else.

7-inning doubleheaders...never liked them, but understood why they did it last year. if they do it again, I hope it's for the same reason and when the pandemic is over they go back to 9-inning games, because that's what major league players play. 

Runner on 2nd in extras...ridiculously stupid, but again, understand why they did things to shorten the amount of time at the park.  My compromise...play real baseball in the 10th and 11th inning, and start the man on 2nd in the 11th inning,  Better yet, only play real baseball, but have ties after 12 innings in the regular season. Half point in each of the win and loss columns.

Expanded postseason-- understand why they did it last year, but 162 is the test, and the postseason should be for the teams that excelled over six months. I think 5 out of 15 in Baseball is perfect. I could live with 6 in each league, but wouldn't like it.  Anything more than 6 is really bad. 

 

What would be the advantage for the owners to have a universal DH? It would raise players salaries and extend the career of hitters from the union side.

[Dick Allen]

49 minutes ago, ptatc said:

What would be the advantage for the owners to have a universal DH? It would raise players salaries and extend the career of hitters from the union side.

Extends careers of better players,some who will be chasing historic numbers. Offense sells. It makes the game more attractive.  Bullpens will be run far more easily.  Its time.

Just from a White Sox fan prospective look at how much better our baseball watching experience has been because of the DH. Luzinski, Baines, Thomas and Thome.  Luzinski and Thome would have never been White Sox. Baines and Thomas would have had far shorter non HOF careers.

Oscar Gamble in 1977 is another .

As far as money goes, 26 man roster will add something but minimal.  If  team adds a$10 DH, they will not have a $5 million set up guy and utility  infielder. The cash will be taken from another area of the team

.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Dick Allen

[TheCommish]

I actually liked the 7 inning double headers, that is a double header that most baseball fans would attend and actually stay for both games. Even if it's a split double header with separate gates, one game is usually so under attended, it doesn't make sense to do it. The same can be said for true double headers. 7 inning double headers, why not stay for both games!

 

I'm not a huge fan of the runner on 2nd, I'd prefer that maybe they do that in the 11th inning. Give each team 2 innings to win, and then go to the quicker ending. If they did that, it probably wouldn't affect more than 10 games a  year. 

 

DH seems like a foregone conclusion eventually, just make it happen. 

 

I liked the expanded playoffs, more teams, means more fun for the fans. This is entertainment, right? 

[flavum]

Want to add one thing about 7-inning doubleheaders...it needs to be fair.  If they're going to do it, it needs to be because they're trying to shorten the season by playing an equal amount of scheduled doubleheaders for each team.  If a game gets rained out, the make up game still needs to be 9 innings. It can't just be "all doubleheaders are 7 innings". Yes, they did what they had to do in 2020, but it isn't what I would want going forward. 

Edited January 16, 2021 by flavum

[ptatc]

22 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Extends careers of better players,some who will be chasing historic numbers. Offense sells. It makes the game more attractive.  Bullpens will be run far more easily.  Its time.

Just from a White Sox fan prospective look at how much better our baseball watching experience has been because of the DH. Luzinski, Baines, Thomas and Thome.  Luzinski and Thome would have never been White Sox. Baines and Thomas would have had far shorter non HOF careers.

Oscar Gamble in 1977 is another 

I really don't see those as advantages compared to the cost to owners,

I think it hasn't happened because the owners are holding out to use it as leverage to get the players to expand the playoffs.

[Dick Allen]

13 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I really don't see those as advantages compared to the cost to owners,

I think it hasn't happened because the owners are holding out to use it as leverage to get the players to expand the playoffs.

The cost is a wash. What is spent on a DH is money not used in other areas. The AL hasn't had a $10 million per team higher payroll average than NL teams. Their budgets don't change. Their allocation  does. And if they do change, its only because they can afford it.

Teams now have 26 man rosters. That additional player when things normalize, probably averages out to less than what the Sox pay Liam Hendriks per year for 10 years if they don't want him in 2024.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Dick Allen

[ptatc]

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

The cost is a wash. What is spent on a DH is money not used in other areas. The AL hasn't had a $10 million per team higher payroll average than NL teams. Their budgets don't change. Their allocation  does. And if they do change, its only because they can afford it.

Teams now have 26 man rosters. That additional player when things normalize, probably averages out to less than what the Sox pay Liam Hendriks per year for 10 years if they don't want him in 2024.

It may do this but it keeps a higher priced player in the roster that would otherwise be filled by a utility player. It helps the union have an extra high priced player in the lineup. Also keeps players making more money in the lineup instead of not being able to play. 

[Dick Allen]

16 minutes ago, ptatc said:

It may do this but it keeps a higher priced player in the roster that would otherwise be filled by a utility player. It helps the union have an extra high priced player in the lineup. Also keeps players making more money in the lineup instead of not being able to play. 

Right but it squeezes out the higher paid utility guys, and back up catchers and middle relievers. In the end, the owners  sell it as another high priced roster spot, but the reality is they make it up somewhere else 

[Saufley]

7-inning doubleheaders.  Perfect for Kopech and Cease. Our double header duo pitching 5 each, with the bullpen closing it out.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Saufley

[Soxsi75]

I think this is terrible news. I HATE the rule changes!!! To me, they are nothing but the owners using COVID as an excuse/reason to shorten games.  You know how to shorten major league games? You can't. Because all that can be done is to tell pitchers to stop throwing so hard and the hitters that it is once again an issue or stigma if you strike out too much. And neither of those things are gonna happen!!  Also, why do they care so much about the length of games? College Football games are now lasting over 4 hours and they don't seem to care. The only thing I can think of, is baseball is trying to cater to the people who don't really understand the game who think "Baseball is too slow and boring."  If you believe that, then don't watch it. I know the rules are the same for both sides, but every time the White Sox lose a 7 inning Doubleheader game, or lose an extra inning game when their opponent pushes across that winning run from second without even pretending to have earned it with a hit, I'll want to punch a wall.

[Saufley]

13 hours ago, Soxsi75 said:

I think this is terrible news. I HATE the rule changes!!! To me, they are nothing but the owners using COVID as an excuse/reason to shorten games.  You know how to shorten major league games? You can't. Because all that can be done is to tell pitchers to stop throwing so hard and the hitters that it is once again an issue or stigma if you strike out too much. And neither of those things are gonna happen!!  Also, why do they care so much about the length of games? College Football games are now lasting over 4 hours and they don't seem to care. The only thing I can think of, is baseball is trying to cater to the people who don't really understand the game who think "Baseball is too slow and boring."  If you believe that, then don't watch it. I know the rules are the same for both sides, but every time the White Sox lose a 7 inning Doubleheader game, or lose an extra inning game when their opponent pushes across that winning run from second without even pretending to have earned it with a hit, I'll want to punch a wall.

If they really want to shorten the games bring back the pitch clock on the scoreboard counting down the 30 seconds and ENFORCE it! Bill Veeck did it, but at that time they didn't want to enforce the rule. The owners want a long game in order to sell more beer, hot dogs and souvenirs. Hypocrites!

[bmags]

I think Ptatc Is right that that is owners logic

I think DA is right in practice. Total salary wise it won’t change much. The no fielding power hitting player has not fared much better than utility guys on the market. What it does do is get veterans a better chance at a job.

it also improves the game, which ptatc is right to point out is not a concern of baseball owners. The least concerned of ruining their product of any sport.

[CentralChamps21]

14 hours ago, Soxsi75 said:

I think this is terrible news. I HATE the rule changes!!! To me, they are nothing but the owners using COVID as an excuse/reason to shorten games.  You know how to shorten major league games? You can't. Because all that can be done is to tell pitchers to stop throwing so hard and the hitters that it is once again an issue or stigma if you strike out too much. And neither of those things are gonna happen!!  Also, why do they care so much about the length of games? College Football games are now lasting over 4 hours and they don't seem to care. The only thing I can think of, is baseball is trying to cater to the people who don't really understand the game who think "Baseball is too slow and boring."  If you believe that, then don't watch it. I know the rules are the same for both sides, but every time the White Sox lose a 7 inning Doubleheader game, or lose an extra inning game when their opponent pushes across that winning run from second without even pretending to have earned it with a hit, I'll want to punch a wall.

They care about the length of the game because the people who think it isn't too slow and boring are older. Younger people aren't watching baseball nearly as much. If I didn't have a dad that was a huge Sox fan, I doubt I would have ever started watching baseball. Even when I do, I'm on my phone texting friends, checking Facebook, etc., during the game in a way that I don't do watching football. Also, I'll watch several college and NFL football games in a weekend that don't involve my favorite teams. Outside of the World Series, I've never watched a game that didn't involve the Sox.

That said, I don't know how to shorten games without doing weird stuff, like shortening games to 8 innings, making foul balls strike three, or limiting the number of times a pitcher can throw to first.

[iWiN4PreP]

1. 7 inning double headers isn't a bad idea with Covid. Even without it, I'd consider it OK.

2. Guy on 2nd in extra innings is terrible. However, im more open to it now than I was one year ago. 

3. They have to shorten the game. Best way to do this is the pitch clock 30 seconds. 

4. Universal DH is a must

 

[South Side Hit Men]

A few of the key pitchers injured while batting:

• Max Scherzer - Thumb
• Randy Johnson - Shoulder Strain
• Pedro Martinez - Neck
• Adam Wainwright - Achilles Tendon
• Josh Beckett - Back

Losing tens of millions in pitcher salaries due to hitting / base running injuries. "Brilliant"

We need more offense, let's keep .069 pitchers hitting in all National League Home Games, including the World Series. "Brilliant"

RM: You trying to win the piece of metal this season Jerry?

JR: Child, please. Want a carrot?

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by South Side Hit Men

[ron883]

Pitch clock is the most obvious choice. Implement it and enforce it. It's that easy. 

If they want to reduce the 3 outcome aspect of the game, deadening the ball and eliminating the shift could work. The idea of banning how your defense can position itself kind of sucks, but it would work. The NBA has illegal defense rules, and those didn't ruin the game. 

Edited January 17, 2021 by ron883

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

14 hours ago, ron883 said:

Pitch clock is the most obvious choice. Implement it and enforce it. It's that easy. 

If they want to reduce the 3 outcome aspect of the game, deadening the ball and eliminating the shift could work. The idea of banning how your defense can position itself kind of sucks, but it would work. The NBA has illegal defense rules, and those didn't ruin the game. 

 It's a big field and fielders played where they did in the past to equally space guys out to cover the most ground possible . Now if in the age of data we know certain hitters hit the ball in a certain place more often then they space the fielders to cover the ground where a guy hits it. To me it's the same. Just because you hit the ball hard has never guaranteed a hit . Baseball has always been a game of hit it where they aint'. They aint in the stands and they aint playin' a pull hitter the opposite way .So either hit it over the fence or put the ball in play where there are no fielders. Adapt to your environment or perish.

[Dominikk85]

On 1/16/2021 at 6:26 PM, ptatc said:

This won't be because it is a decidedly an advantage for the union. The ones in the article above benefit both sides.

The DH is a bargaining chip, mlb doesn't want to give them the DH for free but they want the union to give something to get the DH.

[RagahRagah]

I believe someone here once suggested limiting of times catcher can appeal a home plate no-call. I say yes please to that.

[Dick Allen]

12 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

I believe someone here once suggested limiting of times catcher can appeal a home plate no-call. I say yes please to that.

How about just making the appeal automatic? I have never understood why the 3rd and 1st base umpire can’t immediately overrule a no swing call, without an appeal. If it is all about getting it right, why does the catcher even have to appeal?