TomPickle Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 minute ago, chw42 said: Expanded playoffs would be tough to do without making getting to the playoffs seem kind of worthless. Honestly, it seemed like nobody wanted to be the 8th seed in the NL last year. If they do 8 teams, it cheapens the accomplishment of making the playoffs and it makes seeding almost seem pointless. If they do 6 or 7 teams, one or 2 teams will end up getting a bye for the first series. The problem is that long layoffs don't work well in playoff baseball so the team on the bye could actually be at a disadvantage. It also makes a team on the fringes of competing for a playoff spot more content to just go out with their current roster and not have to worry about improving to make the playoffs. I guess theoretically it also encourages teams that aren't completely awful to try to become mediocre, but I'm not sure it would actually do that given how teams tend to operate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Reading Rosenthal on this, the word from the Union to the league that they rejected the DH for Playoffs proposal came last week, which would make it more likely that Hector could have heard positive Cruz to White sox messages last week. Interesting turn. Feel bad for Cruz. If I'm Twins I think I'd rather get the 4th of Odorizzi or Tanaka, and hope that Donaldson provides the offensive production you'd want with Cruz while introducing Kiriloff/Larnach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, TomPickle said: It also makes a team on the fringes of competing for a playoff spot more content to just go out with their current roster and not have to worry about improving to make the playoffs. I guess theoretically it also encourages teams that aren't completely awful to try to become mediocre, but I'm not sure it would actually do that given how teams tend to operate. Yup, it would make mediocrity rise to the top lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPickle Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 minute ago, bmags said: If I'm Twins I think I'd rather get the 4th of Odorizzi or Tanaka, and hope that Donaldson provides the offensive production you'd want with Cruz while introducing Kiriloff/Larnach. Kirilloff is more of a Rosario replacement, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 4 minutes ago, bmags said: Reading Rosenthal on this, the word from the Union to the league that they rejected the DH for Playoffs proposal came last week, which would make it more likely that Hector could have heard positive Cruz to White sox messages last week. Interesting turn. Feel bad for Cruz. If I'm Twins I think I'd rather get the 4th of Odorizzi or Tanaka, and hope that Donaldson provides the offensive production you'd want with Cruz while introducing Kiriloff/Larnach. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 The beef is suddenly putting out semi-positive Cruz and the Sox vibes, FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 5 minutes ago, TomPickle said: Kirilloff is more of a Rosario replacement, no? yeah nevermind, still have rooker/larnach to move in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Harry Chappas said: What is pathetic about admitting to it? I'd rather he just do that. Look at Braun for instance and the others that blame GNC and what not. This always reminds me of Welington Castillo's apology. It's one of the only ones I've ever read and thought was actually not terrible. Quote "I was recently notified by Major League Baseball that I had tested positive for EPO, a substance that is prohibited under MLB's Joint Drug Agreement. The positive test resulted from an extremely poor decision that I, and I alone, made. I take full responsibility for my conduct. I have let many people down, including my family, my teammates, the White Sox organization and its fans, and from my heart, I apologize. Following my suspension, I look forward to rejoining my teammates and doing whatever I can to help the White Sox win." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 4 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said: The beef is suddenly putting out semi-positive Cruz and the Sox vibes, FWIW. Ugh, I'm getting my hopes up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPickle Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 FWIW, though at this point Cruz may just take a deal he feels is about fair instead of waiting for this to play out further. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 minute ago, TomPickle said: FWIW, though at this point Cruz may just take a deal he feels is about fair instead of waiting for this to play out further. Well if we had a terrific offer he is getting ready for his news conference. If we have offered anything its most likely so underwhelming that he will wait until all the players on the poker table will get their say. If we truly wanted him, he would be signed. This is a protypical hoping that the market around him dries up and he can buy into the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 7 minutes ago, TomPickle said: FWIW, though at this point Cruz may just take a deal he feels is about fair instead of waiting for this to play out further. If his market is low, without a doubt we are low balling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Haha, Hector Gomez retweeted this. Add him to the list of real reporters/ people with real connections that have interacted with the Beef. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Just now, Orlando said: Haha, Hector Gomez retweeted this. Add him to the list of real reporters/ people with real connections that have interacted with the Beef. After the Encarnacion debacle last year, where there were some clear warning signs of decline in the playoffs the year before and spring training with him, I'm a bit hesitant to think that Cruz will put up his usual .900+ OPS statline. He kind of struggled down the stretch (at least for his standards) and only had a .355 wOBA in the 2nd half of the season last year after he started out hot. I don't think he'll be anywhere near as bad as EE was last year, but there could be a very real decline from the .400 wOBAs he's put up the past 2 years. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Just now, chw42 said: After the Encarnacion debacle last year, where there were some clear warning signs of decline in the playoffs the year before and spring training with him, I'm a bit hesitant to think that Cruz will put up his usual .900+ OPS statline. He kind of struggled down the stretch (at least for his standards) and only had a .355 wOBA in the 2nd half of the season last year after he started out hot. I don't think he'll be anywhere near as bad as EE was last year, but there could be a very real decline from the .400 wOBAs he's put up the past 2 years. Just not having to pitch against him would be helpful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 8 minutes ago, Orlando said: Haha, Hector Gomez retweeted this. Add him to the list of real reporters/ people with real connections that have interacted with the Beef. If what Beef says is true, then we need to sign Cruz ASAP before he gets a market. He is the last player left in our thrift shopping range that can have a huge impact on us winning a title this year. Let's not just let things fall in our lap. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake Is Our Leader Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 win-win on the horizon. We either get him and Minnesota cant recover that lost WAR, or we push Minnesota to spend more to keep him and depress their ability to add pitching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 minute ago, Baron said: Just not having to pitch against him would be helpful. Yeah he's always destroyed us. Even if he declines to a .850 OPS type player, that's better on our team than on the Twins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake Is Our Leader Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: If what Beef says is true, then we need to sign Cruz ASAP before he gets a market. He is the last player left in our thrift shopping range that can have a huge impact on us winning a title this year. Let's not just let things fall in our lap. But it dragging out is actually hurting Minnesota too. They dont know how much money they have to use on Cruz to keep him, so it stalls their ability to address other needs. Quintana would have been perfect for them. But he got tired of waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOFHurt35 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 3 minutes ago, chw42 said: After the Encarnacion debacle last year, where there were some clear warning signs of decline in the playoffs the year before and spring training with him, I'm a bit hesitant to think that Cruz will put up his usual .900+ OPS statline. He kind of struggled down the stretch (at least for his standards) and only had a .355 wOBA in the 2nd half of the season last year after he started out hot. I don't think he'll be anywhere near as bad as EE was last year, but there could be a very real decline from the .400 wOBAs he's put up the past 2 years. The Cruz decline, if you want to call it that, is nowhere close to the Encarnacion warning signs. If Cruz provides a steady .850 OPS, he's worth $8-10 million for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 5 minutes ago, chw42 said: After the Encarnacion debacle last year, where there were some clear warning signs of decline in the playoffs the year before and spring training with him, I'm a bit hesitant to think that Cruz will put up his usual .900+ OPS statline. He kind of struggled down the stretch (at least for his standards) and only had a .355 wOBA in the 2nd half of the season last year after he started out hot. I don't think he'll be anywhere near as bad as EE was last year, but there could be a very real decline from the .400 wOBAs he's put up the past 2 years. If you put EE's and Cruz's seasons from 2016-2020 together and rank them, making ten seasons, the top 5 seasons likely go to Cruz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, Drake Is Our Leader said: But it dragging out is actually hurting Minnesota too. They dont know how much money they have to use on Cruz to keep him, so it stalls their ability to address other needs. Quintana would have been perfect for them. But he got tired of waiting. The Twins know where they stand. They probably have a max price for Cruz and will work around that. They may trade for another starter if they can't bring in Tanaka, and they will probably sign Rosenthal or Colome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 minute ago, HOFHurt35 said: The Cruz decline, if you want to call it that, is nowhere close to the Encarnacion warning signs. If Cruz provides a steady .850 OPS, he's worth $8-10 million for me. The thing is that he probably wants $15 million a year. I agree that .850 is probably the floor for him in 2021, whereas that was probably the ceiling for EE last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said: If you put EE's and Cruz's seasons from 2016-2020 together and rank them, making ten seasons, the top 5 seasons likely go to Cruz. There's no doubt. But I'll defend chw42 here. When you get to end of careers, players don't always gradually slow down as much as fall off a cliff. Nelson cruz was the most insane hitter in baseball last year. But his k% has gone up three straight years. He had just 6 doubles compared to his 16 home runs. I'm not going to say Cruz won't be awesome, but we saw Paul Konerko go from 30% better than average as a hitter to 20% worse once season later, and then another 20% worse the next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 4 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: If you put EE's and Cruz's seasons from 2016-2020 together and rank them, making ten seasons, the top 5 seasons likely go to Cruz. I'd argue that EE's prime and Cruz's prime are very similar numbers-wise. The problem is that EE's prime was almost 10 years ago and Cruz is putting up better numbers than he ever did in his 20s and 30s, despite being older than EE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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