the old Corbin Burnes thread, we have a new Burnes thread

[GREEDY]

I'm still having a hard time processing why this is a thing.

The only plausible explanations:

1.  The Brewers are bearish on Burnes and are actively trying to sell high.  If so, you'd think there would be legitimate league wide rumors that he is being shopped, which as far as I can tell there are not.

2.  Burnes is attached to a salary dump?  I've speculated in the Sox buying bad contracts in exchange for value the past 3 offseasons where we seemingly had money to burn and it has never come true.  It makes me sick to think of how man more solid young players we could have accumulated if Jerry would have dumped another 20 million per year.  

3.  Someone in our front office is enamored with Burnes and if this goes down we are going to be absolutely disgusted with what we have to give up.

4.  The Brewers are going to completely tear down their team and for some reason their first move is trading an inexpensive young starter.

5.  The weirdest smokescreen in recent memory. 

[Rey21]

If TA, Eloy, Moncada, Robert, Giolito, Grandal, Abreu aren’t included in the deal does it really hurt though? Those are the best players on the team the ones we need here to truly have a shot. 
I get losing some young kids with potential would stink but man Burnes was really damn good last year could have the potential to be the 2nd best pitcher on this team - it should be a no brainer 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Rey21

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, Rey21 said:

If TA, Eloy, Moncada, Robert, Giolito, Grandal, Abreu aren’t included in the deal does it really hurt though? Those are the best players on the team the ones we need here to truly have a shot. 
I get losing some young kids with potential would stink but man Burnes was really damn good last year could have the potential to be the 2nd best pitcher on this team - it should be a no brainer 

Sounds like the same words heard about Todd Ritchie, lol...although he was supposed to be more of 3.

[southsider2k5]

10 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

I am not trying to put you down here but you keep bringing up the number of innings the number 4 and 5 guys need to pitch this season.  

The expectation has to be get 200+ innings from the big three and then cobble things together for the next year for Cease and two years for Kopech and Crochet.

Cease is the 4 this is Stiever if he is moved 

Stiever is the 5 this is Burnes if he is traded for

Neither Stiever or Burnes are expected to add to the rotation in the playoffs as there is not enough innings avail be in their arms.  This may be the same thing for Cease as well.

I agree that Richards is in the same boat.

The plan though is to get through the season with te top three and hope there is development for 2022 and beyond with the rest of this group.

I thought Quintana was a prime candidate to add but alas he is gone.

You aren't dumping the farm system for a guy like Burnes to be a mix and match guy, and if he isn't a playoff pitcher, that is a real problem with this trade.  A deal like this values him as a TOR, and it also loses the depth that would make up for him not being able to be that guy.

[Bob Sacamano]

Assuming Yelich bounces back closer to 2018 and 2019 (probably not ALL THE WAY back, but better than 2020), they have to be the favorites in that division right? Maybe dealing Burnes is a way they can retool and fill a couple areas of need. For example: say if Madrigal and Cease (or Kopech) were in the deal. They plug Burnes' spot with an MLB ready arm in Cease (extra year of control over Burnes) and add an MLB ready player to the lineup in Madrigal at 2B (likely moves Hiura somewhere else: 1B, 3B, OF, etc) plus another prospect or two.

Of course, if they are the favorites, there is also the argument that they could just keep Burnes (making his price higher).

Edited January 20, 2021 by manbearpuig

[hogan873]

No doubt Burnes will cost quite a bit to acquire, and the Sox have the players to do it.  Unless it's an absolute steal, there will be some heartache (maybe a lot) if the Sox do indeed pull off this trade.

I wonder what the consensus was of Padre fans with what they gave up so far this off season?  The best comparison would probably be the Musgrove trade, but I think Burnes will cost more.  If Kopech, Vaughn, and Crochet are truly off the table, are we okay with Madrigal plus 2 or 3 top prospects for Burnes.  I'd have to think we would be; the rotation gets so much better instantly.

[Rowand44]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Sounds like the same words heard about Todd Ritchie, lol...although he was supposed to be more of 3.

We traded for Todd Ritchie when he was 30.  Not sure how or why his name was brought up in the first place but it's a pretty awful comparison.

[turnin' two]

Burnes, for the record, was 21st in IP in the NL last year.  He would have been 3rd on the Sox (just 4 innings fewer than Keuchel) .  I think it is safe to say he was working a full time starters load last season.  

[turnin' two]

3 minutes ago, Rowand44 said:

We traded for Todd Ritchie when he was 30.  Not sure how or why his name was brought up in the first place but it's a pretty awful comparison.

And had never been good before the Sox traded for him.  Burnes was a top 10 Cy Young finisher last season.  All Todd Ritchie did was throw innings.  Not necessarily good innings.  Its a horrible comparison. 

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, Rowand44 said:

We traded for Todd Ritchie when he was 30.  Not sure how or why his name was brought up in the first place but it's a pretty awful comparison.

The crippling talent return on the Sox part that ultimately resulted in a lack of fifth starter depth...and being the piece who was supposed to put us over the top.

But no, he was never billed as a potential ace, except by KW hyperbole.

[caulfield12]

This still makes no sense for the Brewers, as they really need Vaughn, not Madrigal...

Not many would be comfortable giving up Kopech AND Vaughn, let alone Cease and Vaughn.

That doesn’t even include asking for Crochet as the third place to replace Hader as the starting point.

Edited January 20, 2021 by caulfield12

[Rey21]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

This still makes no sense for the Brewers, as they really need Vaughn, not Madrigal...

Not many would be comfortable giving up Kopech AND Vaughn, let alone Cease and Vaughn.

That doesn’t even include asking for Crochet as the third place to replace Hader as the starting point.

They could move Hiura to 1B with Madrigal at 2B, of course they’d want Vaughn but I also feel like the Brewers and Sox have enough of a working relationship to have ideas on other players that could make a deal work, I don’t think Vaughn has to be included - Kopech maybe 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Rey21

[turnin' two]

14 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The crippling talent return on the Sox part that ultimately resulted in a lack of fifth starter depth...and being the piece who was supposed to put us over the top.

But no, he was never billed as a potential ace, except by KW hyperbole.

Kip Wells?  Josh Fogg?  They were useful guys, and decent pitchers,  but not crippling.  

[bmags]

17 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

Kip Wells?  Josh Fogg?  They were useful guys, and decent pitchers,  but not crippling.  

I mean it probably did cripple 2003

[bmags]

Also according to fathom I’m allowed to keep drinking this rumor for another 30 hours

[steveno89]

1 hour ago, Rey21 said:

They could move Hiura to 1B with Madrigal at 2B, of course they’d want Vaughn but I also feel like the Brewers and Sox have enough of a working relationship to have ideas on other players that could make a deal work, I don’t think Vaughn has to be included - Kopech maybe 

I would be very surprised if the Sox dealt Vaughn/Kopech/Crochet this offseason. 

Burnes is interesting, but I do question why Milwaukee would be willing to move him for less than a big package. Sox farm is top heavy and not deep. 

Reading between the lines, I could see some form of a Madrigal/Heuer/Kelley package being offered

[Rey21]

1 minute ago, steveno89 said:

I would be very surprised if the Sox dealt Vaughn/Kopech/Crochet this offseason. 

Burnes is interesting, but I do question why Milwaukee would be willing to move him for less than a big package. Sox farm is top heavy and not deep. 

Reading between the lines, I could see some form of a Madrigal/Heuer/Kelley package being offered

I believe that’s probably the package plus one more and think it’s crazy that anybody saying that’s a lot for a pitcher with potential to take over the #2 spot in the rotation with contract control. 

[steveno89]

Just now, Rey21 said:

I believe that’s probably the package plus one more and think it’s crazy that anybody saying that’s a lot for a pitcher with potential to take over the #2 spot in the rotation with contract control. 

No doubt Burnes looked great in 2020, but his awful 2019, allowing 70 hits in 49 IP, does give me some concern.

It is valid to ask why Milwaukee would trade him unless they felt this was selling high? 

[RagahRagah]

3 minutes ago, Rey21 said:

I believe that’s probably the package plus one more and think it’s crazy that anybody saying that’s a lot for a pitcher with potential to take over the #2 spot in the rotation with contract control. 

I feel like while that might seem fair for both teams it feels too good to be true regardless. If we get Burnes I feel it's important to keep Kopech. If we can get this done without Kopech/Vaughn/Crochet that would have us all salivating. 

I still doubt any if this is true, though.

[RagahRagah]

1 minute ago, steveno89 said:

No doubt Burnes looked great in 2020, but his awful 2019, allowing 70 hits in 49 IP, does give me some concern.

It is valid to ask why Milwaukee would trade him unless they felt this was selling high? 

Didn't we say the same thing about Moncada?

[steveno89]

1 minute ago, RagahRagah said:

Didn't we say the same thing about Moncada?

Moncada was one of the best prospects in baseball at the time of the Sale trade. 

I like Burnes. I would be happy if the Sox acquired him. I just question why the Brewers would be willing to move him when his value could get even higher if he's actually the pitcher he was in 2020?

[RagahRagah]

2 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Moncada was one of the best prospects in baseball at the time of the Sale trade. 

I like Burnes. I would be happy if the Sox acquired him. I just question why the Brewers would be willing to move him when his value could get even higher if he's actually the pitcher he was in 2020?

Isn't that pretty much the case with Burnes as well? He has definitely shown he has what it takes to be everything he's being made out to be here.

And frankly for the return that was mentioned, I'd say that's a slam dunk yes.

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

I mean it probably did cripple 2003

Oh hell yeah. That's a team that could have won the WS with those guys at the back of their rotation. Idk if they sign Loaiza if they have Wells and Fogg though, and that would have hurt that team. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

2 hours ago, Rey21 said:

If TA, Eloy, Moncada, Robert, Giolito, Grandal, Abreu aren’t included in the deal does it really hurt though? Those are the best players on the team the ones we need here to truly have a shot. 
I get losing some young kids with potential would stink but man Burnes was really damn good last year could have the potential to be the 2nd best pitcher on this team - it should be a no brainer 

I don’t know, would losing Vaughn, Kopech, and Stiever hurt? I think so but maybe you disagree.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

You aren't dumping the farm system for a guy like Burnes to be a mix and match guy, and if he isn't a playoff pitcher, that is a real problem with this trade.  A deal like this values him as a TOR, and it also loses the depth that would make up for him not being able to be that guy.

No doubt. I was told yesterday that a Burnes trade STARTS with a Giolito type return. You know, the same dude that finished top 7 in AL Cy Young voting the last two years and still has three years of cheap control.