the old Corbin Burnes thread, we have a new Burnes thread

[steveno89]

4 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Trying to keep up with you guys...

... Hoping that this rumor still has steam and maybe we see it happen tonight?

Anyway..

1) You do NOT trade Kopech. That's ridiculous. Someone already mentioned it, but that serves very little purpose -- acquire a SP only to trade a similar one. 

2) I have no problem trading Vaughn for a Burnes type. Gotta think the Brewers are much more interested in Vaughn than Madrigal. We have Eloy at DH for the future and Abreu at 1b for some time. Vaughn doesn't have a spot on this team. Trade him.

3) I'd keep Madrigal. Unless the Brewers are massively overvaluing Madrigal, I see no reason to trade him.

I'd do Vaughn + Stevier + lotto tickets or something?

 

I would be shocked if the Sox dealt 6+ seasons of control over Vaughn with no clear DH and Abreu not getting any younger. He could be MLB ready sometime in the second half of 2021 and be our long term answer at 1B/DH. 

Sox do not play at the top of the FA market and cannot afford to trade potential future stars like Vaughn/Kopech/Crochet

[iWiN4PreP]

Just now, steveno89 said:

I would be shocked if the Sox dealt 6+ seasons of control over Vaughn with no clear DH and Abreu not getting any younger. He could be MLB ready sometime in the second half of 2021 and be our long term answer at 1B/DH. 

Sox do not play at the top of the FA market and cannot afford to trade potential future stars like Vaughn/Kopech/Crochet

Eloy is our DH for the future.

Abreu has at least another 2 years. Very high chance Abreu has another 4 years. 

I have 100% no problem giving up Vaughn right now for a stud SP before Vaughn comes up and has the possibility of becoming Nate Lowe. 

If we can't develop another 1b in 3-5 years or sign one or trade for one if need be, then IDK... but I am not worried at all about losing Vaughn. However, I am very very much worried about our SP ability this upcoming year (and in the future). 

[maloney.adam]

7 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Twins literally just signed JA Happ. Good call out here. 

 

6 minutes ago, Blackout Friday said:

Twins probably going to sign rosenthal or some other good rp. 
 

but, really....nothing he said can’t be pieced together by anyone who follows the game closely. 

 

6 minutes ago, aeichhor said:

Well they got JA happ

 

6 minutes ago, Blackout Friday said:

Or happ lol

This happened literally right after I posted NSC’s tweet. Lmao! ?

[iWiN4PreP]

Ok uhh, does anyone know if there's been anything significant on the Corbin Burnes trade rumor front since the reddit post and twitter comments from last night?

I get that JR is probably sleeping (seems like these White Sox moves strike at night), but I want the SMOKE!

 

[steveno89]

5 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Eloy is our DH for the future.

Abreu has at least another 2 years. Very high chance Abreu has another 4 years. 

I have 100% no problem giving up Vaughn right now for a stud SP before Vaughn comes up and has the possibility of becoming Nate Lowe. 

If we can't develop another 1b in 3-5 years or sign one or trade for one if need be, then IDK... but I am not worried at all about losing Vaughn. However, I am very very much worried about our SP ability this upcoming year (and in the future). 

Moving Eloy to DH permanently just creates another hole in LF, and the organization does not have any obvious candidates to fill that spot. 

Vaughn has the upside of being a .300-30-100 middle of the order hitter who gets on base. Sox certainly want to keep him. 

[iWiN4PreP]

3 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Moving Eloy to DH permanently just creates another hole in LF, and the organization does not have any obvious candidates to fill that spot. 

Vaughn has the upside of being a .300-30-100 middle of the order hitter who gets on base. Sox certainly want to keep him. 

You don't really have a choice with Eloy.

He's unbelievably bad as a defender and if we keep trotting him out there in LF he's going to suffer injuries. Eloy is way too valuable as a hitter to keep this carousel of injuries going on. 

 

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

People also forget that Kopech went through a divorce while expecting a child. I won't pass judgement on him, as it certainly seemed like there were some person issues going on around the time the season started to ramp back up. Add that into an uncertain role and concerns with his post TJ return, I don't blame him for taking the time off. My biggest concern is the lack of track record of guys taking this much extended time off and living up to their potential. I honestly can't think of anyone in a similar past situation having success. Last thing I want is for the Sox to have their own version of Alex Reyes on the team. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

22 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

You don't really have a choice with Eloy.

He's unbelievably bad as a defender and if we keep trotting him out there in LF he's going to suffer injuries. Eloy is way too valuable as a hitter to keep this carousel of injuries going on. 

 

My guess is we will want Vaughn more than Abreu in 2 years.  In which case, if Abreu wants to keep playing, it'll have to be elsewhere.

[Sox80]

22 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

You don't really have a choice with Eloy.

He's unbelievably bad as a defender and if we keep trotting him out there in LF he's going to suffer injuries. Eloy is way too valuable as a hitter to keep this carousel of injuries going on. 

 

I agree.   My hope was Eloy to Dh and Vaughn at 1st when jose is gone.  I understand that's the consensus I'm sure lol. 

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

People also forget that Kopech went through a divorce while expecting a child. I won't pass judgement on him, as it certainly seemed like there were some person issues going on around the time the season started to ramp back up. Add that into an uncertain role and concerns with his post TJ return, I don't blame him for taking the time off. My biggest concern is the lack of track record of guys taking this much extended time off and living up to their potential. I honestly can't think of anyone in a similar past situation having success. Last thing I want is for the Sox to have their own version of Alex Reyes on the team. 

I don't have a problem with people being sensitive to Kopech's decision. I just think it's silly to call him this Alpha that will bring attitude to the team, as if there aren't a bunch of guys that hadn't fought through terrible personal situations while playing. 

[Orlando]

what does this mean?

[almagest]

Just now, Orlando said:

what does this mean?

Is that Corbin Bernsen?

[turnin' two]

2 minutes ago, Orlando said:

what does this mean?

Who knows.  Hahah.  The actors name is Corbin Bernsen though.  He was in Major League, and Psych, among other things.  

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, bmags said:

We like, literally saw 60 major league innings of Burnes dominating MLB hitters en route to a cy young finish last year.

We still don't know if Kopech can command his pitches or if his secondary stuff will locate well enough to be effective. He had like a month of showing that 2 years ago in AAA.

And the response will be "he threw 101 so he's back". 

Back to what? He was never finished. He's got a great fastball. I hope it translates. It may very well not, no matter how alpha he is.

You’re underselling him here.  Plus fastball, plus slider, and a changeup that was flashing plus before injury.  Dude was dominant in Charlotte after a rocky beginning and looked like the real in the starts I watched.  IMO, he legit has one of the highest ceilings in all of baseball.  Now, the fact he’s pitched in 2 1/2 years is a problem if you’re counting on him for innings and he still will need to go through an adjustment phase in the majors, so there is an argument for dealing him for a guy like Burnes but that is simply due to his ability to fit our window.

[smellysox]

3 minutes ago, Orlando said:

what does this mean?

I think he's undressing me with his eyes. Very awkward Corbin!

[turnin' two]

[bmags]

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You’re underselling him here.  Plus fastball, plus slider, and a changeup that was flashing plus before injury.  Dude was dominant in Charlotte after a rocky beginning and looked like the real in the starts I watched.  IMO, he legit has one of the highest ceilings in all of baseball.  Now, the fact he’s pitched in 2 1/2 years is a problem if you’re counting on him for innings and he still will need to go through an adjustment phase in the majors, so there is an argument for dealing him for a guy like Burnes but that is simply due to his ability to fit our window.

Well he ditched his changeup this year so clearly he couldn't command it. And that continues to be the point. The "but his stuff!" is not in doubt, it's whether this fastball-slider pitcher is going to be able to command his slider enough so that hitters aren't able to just time his fastball. 

[maloney.adam]

Edited January 20, 2021 by maloney.adam

[Chicago White Sox]

11 minutes ago, bmags said:

Well he ditched his changeup this year so clearly he couldn't command it. And that continues to be the point. The "but his stuff!" is not in doubt, it's whether this fastball-slider pitcher is going to be able to command his slider enough so that hitters aren't able to just time his fastball. 

What do you mean he ditched his changeup this year?  We are talking about Kopech right?

[ron883]

6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What do you mean he ditched his changeup this year?  We are talking about Kopech right?

https://theathletic.com/2309736/2021/01/08/new-white-sox-pitching-coach-ethan-katz-is-in-constant-contact-with-his-starters/

"It was worth a chuckle when Kopech pledged that he no longer would be a power pitcher, and then promptly sat in triple digits with his fastball velocity during his sole spring training outing. But he was speaking to something real in his mentality that Katz saw in looking at his usage. It could be chalked up to a young pitcher being fired up, and also the phenomenal power of the pitch, but Katz estimated that up to the point of his injury in 2018, that Kopech was reliably throwing 88-90 percent fastballs in hitter’s counts.

“I think for his own growth — you know it is 100 mph — but being able to throw other pitches in certain counts is really important for any pitcher,” Katz said.

Part of building that out is defining what those secondaries are. Kopech has long boasted a plus slider, but to make him more viable against left-handers he could use another pitch that operates in a third velocity band and breaks less toward lefties. When he was called up in 2018, Kopech was fighting to get a feel for a changeup — often a challenge for a power pitcher — with some speculation that he could achieve those goals with just more use of his curveball.

Now, over two years later, Katz is clear: Kopech is a fastball-slider-curveball guy, with a changeup they are still developing."

 

Hopefully i didn't quote too much. Just a small excerpt of the interview with Katz.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, ron883 said:

https://theathletic.com/2309736/2021/01/08/new-white-sox-pitching-coach-ethan-katz-is-in-constant-contact-with-his-starters/

"It was worth a chuckle when Kopech pledged that he no longer would be a power pitcher, and then promptly sat in triple digits with his fastball velocity during his sole spring training outing. But he was speaking to something real in his mentality that Katz saw in looking at his usage. It could be chalked up to a young pitcher being fired up, and also the phenomenal power of the pitch, but Katz estimated that up to the point of his injury in 2018, that Kopech was reliably throwing 88-90 percent fastballs in hitter’s counts.

“I think for his own growth — you know it is 100 mph — but being able to throw other pitches in certain counts is really important for any pitcher,” Katz said.

Part of building that out is defining what those secondaries are. Kopech has long boasted a plus slider, but to make him more viable against left-handers he could use another pitch that operates in a third velocity band and breaks less toward lefties. When he was called up in 2018, Kopech was fighting to get a feel for a changeup — often a challenge for a power pitcher — with some speculation that he could achieve those goals with just more use of his curveball.

Now, over two years later, Katz is clear: Kopech is a fastball-slider-curveball guy, with a changeup they are still developing."

 

Hopefully i didn't quote too much. Just a small excerpt of the interview with Katz.

 

But that says they’re adding a curveball and still developing the change-up, unless I’m interpreting that incorrectly.

[ron883]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

But that says they’re adding a curveball and still developing the change-up, unless I’m interpreting that incorrectly.

Correct. He isn't completely ditching the changeup. I think that's what bmags was referring to, though.

[YourWhatHurts]

I guess I will say this: if the Sox make a stupid deal that bites them in the ass hard for next several years, because once again they fail to properly evaluate their own in-house talent, then I would rather they make that deal with the Brewers than any other team in baseball.  If they trade one or several of my favorite Sox prospects, it will be much more fun at least half-rooting for them in Milwaukee instead of purely lamenting their losses and hating the Sox FO more and more every time they do something really good.

[YourWhatHurts]

IMO, sign Tanaka for $15M.  Just suck it up and spend the few extra dollars.

[SoCalChiSox]

Jimmy, whats the damage? Whats the compensation going to MIL?

Is Vaughn/Kopech involved?