Chicago White Sox Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 (edited) Right now the Yankees look like the team to beat in the AL with a 50+ projected fWAR, so I figured it would be a fun exercise to do a position by position comparison to see how we stack up against them and where we must improve to narrow the gap. Note, this won’t be an OD roster comparison, but rather a potential end of season view to account for key call-ups or guys returning from injury. Lineup: 1B: Abreu vs. Voit | EVEN 2B: Madrigal vs. LeMahieu | NYY++ SS: Anderson vs. Torres | EVEN 3B: Moncada vs. Urshela | CWS+ LF: Jimenez vs. Frazier | CWS+ CF: Robert vs. Hicks | CWS+ RF: Eaton vs. Judge | NYY+++ DH: Vaugh vs. Stanton | NYY++ CA: Grandal vs. Sanchez | CWS++ Bench: IF: Mendick vs. Wade | EVEN OF: Engel vs. Tauchman | NYY+ UT: Garcia vs. Ford | EVEN BC: Collins vs. Higashioka | NYY+ Rotation: SP1: Giolito vs. Cole | EVEN SP2: Lynn vs. Severino | EVEN SP3: Keuchel vs. Kluber | CWS+ SP4: Cease vs. Taillon | NYY+ SP5: Kopech vs. Montgomery | NYY+ SP6: Lopez vs. German | NYY+ SP7: Stiever vs. Garcia | NYY+ Bullpen: CL: Hendriks vs. Chapman | EVEN SU: Bummer vs. Britton | CWS+ SU: Crochet vs. Green | EVEN SU: Heuer vs. Ottavino | EVEN MR: Marshall vs. Cessa | CWS+ MR: Foster vs. Loaisiga | CWS+ MR: Fry vs. Nelson| CWS+ Edited January 24, 2021 by Chicago White Sox 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Can you even count Stanton to be in their lineup anymore 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black jack Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Right now the Yankees look like the team to beat in the AL with a 50+ projected fWAR, so I figured it would be a fun exercise to do a position by position comparison to see how we stack up against them and where we must improve to narrow the gap. Note, this won’t be an OD roster comparison, but rather a potential end of season view to account for key call-ups or guys returning from injury. Lineup: 1B: Abreu vs. Voit | EVEN 2B: Madrigal vs. LeMahieu | NYY++ SS: Anderson vs. Torres | EVEN 3B: Moncada vs. Urshela | CWS+ LF: Jimenez vs. Frazier | CWS+ CF: Robert vs. Hicks | CWS+ RF: Eaton vs. Judge | NYY+++ DH: Vaugh vs. Stanton | NYY++ CA: Grandal vs. Sanchez | CWS++ Bench: IF: Mendick vs. Wade | EVEN OF: Engel vs. Tauchman | NYY+ UT: Garcia vs. Ford | EVEN BC: Collins vs. Higashioka | NYY+ Rotation: SP1: Giolito vs. Cole | EVEN SP2: Lynn vs. Severino | EVEN SP3: Keuchel vs. Kluber | CWS+ SP4: Cease vs. Montgomery | NYY+ SP5: Kopech vs. German | NYY+ SP6: Stiever vs. Garcia | NYY+ Bullpen: CL: Hendriks vs. Chapman | EVEN SU: Bummer vs. Britton | CWS+ SU: Crochet vs. Green | EVEN SU: Heuer vs. Ottavino | EVEN MR: Marshall vs. Cessa | CWS+ MR: Foster vs. Loaisiga | CWS+ MR: Fry vs. Nelson| CWS+ LR: Lopez vs. Abreu | CWS+ Maybe I'm biased, but I'd give us the edge at short. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear_brian Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Good idea. I might disagree with Abreu vs VVoit, since Jose is MVP, RBI leader, etc. He might regress, but Voit is not in that arena. Likewise Timmy vs Torres. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwill Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 I thought this was pretty well put together and things can change during the season. Like Could I see Frazier struggling and Eloy becoming a MVP canidate- definitely. I think he has that kind of bat but in general only a slight difference in opinions. Honestly, I didn't think the Yankees were this good until I saw this breakdown. The Yankees are a hard team to judge because their star players seem to be constantly on the DL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth05 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Gleyber over Timmy being NYY++ just don’t look right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 Couple key takeaways: The Yankees have the better offense, but we have more youth in ours and therefore could see higher variances work out in our favor. Moncada, Robert, & Eloy all have a chance to take a step forward and further separate from their Yankee peers. If Vaughn clicks right away then he could narrow the gap at DH, especially when you consider Stanton’s injury history, but that’s probably an unfair ask. Unfortunately, the gap at 2B likely is what it is as Madrigal simply doesn’t have the ceiling to move the needle much against a player as talented as LeMahieu. There aren’t many ways for us to catch-up with the Yankees on the position player front in terms of external additions. RF is without question the biggest gap and IMO we botched it by adding such a low ceiling player in Eaton. The only other spot that we could see an outside addition at is DH and Nelson Cruz is the only guy who I’d consider a massive upgrade over Vaughn. However, signing someone like La Stella would also be helpful from a depth perspective as we don’t have a Tauchman player on our bench. While the Yankees don’t have a Dodgers like bench, I’d put it ahead of ours at the moment. Rotation wise is where I see the biggest difference. While I feel like the top three of each rotation are relatively comparable (don’t hate me for ranking Giolito & Cole as even), it’s the back-end and depth where problems quickly reside. While Cease & Kopech have huge ceilings, both players must be discounted due to a high degree of uncertainty. We also lack other quality options beyond those two, with Lopez as the most major ready one but coming off a disastrous 2020 season and Stiever the only guy with any semblance of ceiling. The Yankees are simply deeper with more proven and/or interesting options and that makes a big difference in what should be a tough season for starting pitchers. Adding Taillon would only further the gap. Despite Fangraphs and others thinking the Yankees have the best bullpen in baseball, I’d actually give this one to the Sox. I think both clubs have great back-ends, but I’d definitely lean towards us, especially if Crochet can be Hader lite. Where I see the biggest difference in the middle relief area. Perhaps I’m just not familiar with these Yankees arms, but I liked what I saw Marshall, Foster, & Fry last year and based on primarily stats they seem to be superior to their Yankee counterparts. Ultimately this come down to depth & confidence and I feel better about our middle relief arms at the moment. The Yankees could cut the gap here though with a free agent addition and there are still plenty of arms out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said: Gleyber over Timmy being NYY++ just don’t look right You're right it doesn't look right because it's listed as even so you misread it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 17 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: Can you even count Stanton to be in their lineup anymore I tried to be conservative there. When healthy, he’s still a high-end hitter and while I’m bullish on Vaughn, asking him to be our primary DH with his limited amount of minor league development time is somewhat unprecedented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth05 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: You're right it doesn't look right because it's listed as even so you misread it. Sure did. Still think Timmy has the edge 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 19 minutes ago, black jack said: Maybe I'm biased, but I'd give us the edge at short. 17 minutes ago, bear_brian said: Good idea. I might disagree with Abreu vs VVoit, since Jose is MVP, RBI leader, etc. He might regress, but Voit is not in that arena. Likewise Timmy vs Torres. Abreu & Anderson were both better last year no doubt about it, but I’m expecting some negative regression from both and I do expect Torres to be much better in 2021. Right now I have both spots as being pretty close and didn’t want to call it either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I tried to be conservative there. When healthy, he’s still a high-end hitter and while I’m bullish on Vaughn, asking him to be our primary DH with his limited amount of minor league development time is somewhat unprecedented. I have seen arguments that will downgrade pitching because of the competition they faced in 2020 so if that is the case the Yankees played in a much stronger division. No telling how those rookie and young arms on the Sox might have fared in the better hitting East or how the Yankee pitchers would have fared in the Central. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Very good write up. Adding Cruz and Q would have made a huge difference in this comparison. The Yankees can mash and pitch, but fate is on our side as they more often than not choke in post season lately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 17 minutes ago, kwill said: I thought this was pretty well put together and things can change during the season. Like Could I see Frazier struggling and Eloy becoming a MVP canidate- definitely. I think he has that kind of bat but in general only a slight difference in opinions. Honestly, I didn't think the Yankees were this good until I saw this breakdown. The Yankees are a hard team to judge because their star players seem to be constantly on the DL. Funny you point out LF. I originally had Eloy as being ++ better, but ultimately dropped it down to just +. I think Eloy is going to have a massive 2021 season with the bat, but Frazier had a really nice 2020 season and if his defense is for real it cuts into the gap. I’m hoping his 2020 season is a bit of a mirage but given his prospect pedigree, I erred on the side of conservatism here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EloyJenkins Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 (edited) Well put together...don't sell Lynn short though. If he is what he was the last two years ..thats a plus advantage Edited January 24, 2021 by EloyJenkins 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 2 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: Very good write up. Adding Cruz and Q would have made a huge difference in this comparison. The Yankees can mash and pitch, but fate is on our side as they more often than not choke in post season lately. It shows the need to add another arm and some sort of bat, whether that be Cruz or a guy with some versatility like La Stella. While I’d love to see another impactful starting pitching, it’s adding depth that’s most critical at the moment. Our season could derial pretty quickly with the wrong set of injuries and/or under-performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 1 minute ago, EloyJenkins said: Well put together...don't sell Lynn short though. If he is what he was the last two years ..that a plus advantage I’m one of Lynn’s biggest fans on this board, but Severino was a 5+ win starter in 2018 & 2019. I expect Lynn to end up in the 4.5 to 5 win range next year, which puts him close to Severino in terms of potential impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 This honestly helped sell me on Cruz even more. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey21 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Signing Marcell Ozuna would end this argument but we don’t live in such a world where the owner cares enough so I expect La Stella to be DH and the Yankees to then curb stomp Kuechel/Cease/Reynaldo/Kopech 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: Right now the Yankees look like the team to beat in the AL with a 50+ projected fWAR, so I figured it would be a fun exercise to do a position by position comparison to see how we stack up against them and where we must improve to narrow the gap. Note, this won’t be an OD roster comparison, but rather a potential end of season view to account for key call-ups or guys returning from injury. Lineup: 1B: Abreu vs. Voit | EVEN 2B: Madrigal vs. LeMahieu | NYY++ SS: Anderson vs. Torres | EVEN 3B: Moncada vs. Urshela | CWS+ LF: Jimenez vs. Frazier | CWS+ CF: Robert vs. Hicks | CWS+ RF: Eaton vs. Judge | NYY+++ DH: Vaugh vs. Stanton | NYY++ CA: Grandal vs. Sanchez | CWS++ Bench: IF: Mendick vs. Wade | EVEN OF: Engel vs. Tauchman | NYY+ UT: Garcia vs. Ford | EVEN BC: Collins vs. Higashioka | NYY+ Rotation: SP1: Giolito vs. Cole | EVEN SP2: Lynn vs. Severino | EVEN SP3: Keuchel vs. Kluber | CWS+ SP4: Cease vs. Montgomery | NYY+ SP5: Kopech vs. German | NYY+ SP6: Stiever vs. Garcia | NYY+ Bullpen: CL: Hendriks vs. Chapman | EVEN SU: Bummer vs. Britton | CWS+ SU: Crochet vs. Green | EVEN SU: Heuer vs. Ottavino | EVEN MR: Marshall vs. Cessa | CWS+ MR: Foster vs. Loaisiga | CWS+ MR: Fry vs. Nelson| CWS+ LR: Lopez vs. Abreu | CWS+ I agree with most of this. But Anderson is significantly better than Torres. I would put that one as CWS++ 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 6 minutes ago, Sarava said: I agree with most of this. But Anderson is significantly better than Torres. I would put that one as CWS++ It all depends on which players you get. Torres just turned 24 years old and already has a 38 HR season under his belt. I expect him to be better and improve on his 2019 season. With Anderson is just comes down to defense and him being consistent over a full season. If he can do that, then I could that ++ edge you’re referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey21 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Yanks just got Taillon - if heathy I’d rather be the Yankees than the WhiteSox right now. Sox can’t sit back and sign Wainwright and La Stella gotta think bigger here 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 24, 2021 Author Share Posted January 24, 2021 1 minute ago, Rey21 said: Yanks just got Taillon - if heathy I’d rather be the Yankees than the WhiteSox right now. Sox can’t sit back and sign Wainwright and La Stella gotta think bigger here Their SP depth is way better than ours at the moment, no idea what Hahn is waiting for. If they’re banking on Katz performing miracles we’re in big trouble. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 No way Giolito = Cole. Cole is #1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YourWhatHurts Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 There's no way that Giolito and Lynn are "equal" to a healthy Cole and Severino. The Yanks have a much better rotation if they are healthy. Sox have a better IF defense. Yanks probably similar defensively in the OF because Eloy brings down the quality of the OF D so much. Offensively both lineups are deep with power and speed, and lots of tough outs. Both bullpens should be very good, but you never know how that will turn out. Overall IMO the Yankees are definitely the better team ATM. The Sox don't have the horses yet. Also when you add D TA is way better than Gleyber. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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