IlliniKrush Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 I should have written this http://premium.baseballprospectus.com/arti...?articleid=2411 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Best thing about the Cubs season Dusty overworked Wood and Prior. The toll will catch up to both of them at some point next season. Book it, Dan-no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Best thing about the Cubs season Dusty overworked Wood and Prior. The toll will catch up to both of them at some point next season. Book it, Dan-no. If he overworks them like that every year, he will cut their careers short. Dusty Ditka - long on motivation, short on gameplan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Cubs fans luv him now, but they'll hate him in a few years when Wood and Prior blow their arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 I don't think Dusty hurt either of those guys arms. Pitchers used to pitch 250-300 innings every year back in the 60's all the time. I don't recall Bob Gibson's arm blowing out, or Fergie Jenkins, etc. Of course, it did happen then as it does now. So don't throw Koufax in my face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 I should have written this http://premium.baseballprospectus.com/arti...?articleid=2411 Great article. Thanks for sharing that with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez Ghost (old) Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Wait...a rational Cubs fan? Room spinning....blacking out........THUD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossarian Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 I don't think Dusty hurt either of those guys arms. Pitchers used to pitch 250-300 innings every year back in the 60's all the time. I don't recall Bob Gibson's arm blowing out, or Fergie Jenkins, etc. Of course, it did happen then as it does now. So don't throw Koufax in my face. What about the guys at the turn of the century who often started 50 or more games and pitched 400 or more innings? Even if you concede they didn't throw as hard that is still a lot of strain on an arm. Obviously they were tougher and more durable. As recently as 20 or 25 years ago stud pitchers would work 300+ innings. What has happened? Why are todays pitchers so fragile? Prior and Pedro couldn't close out a tough 8th inning and because of it their teams are on the outside looking in. As far as Koufax goes, his arthtritis may have been genetic, or brought on by the strain of pitching or a little bit of both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 I don't think Dusty hurt either of those guys arms. Pitchers used to pitch 250-300 innings every year back in the 60's all the time. I don't recall Bob Gibson's arm blowing out, or Fergie Jenkins, etc. Of course, it did happen then as it does now. So don't throw Koufax in my face. What about the guys at the turn of the century who often started 50 or more games and pitched 400 or more innings? Even if you concede they didn't throw as hard that is still a lot of strain on an arm. Obviously they were tougher and more durable. As recently as 20 or 25 years ago stud pitchers would work 300+ innings. What has happened? Why are todays pitchers so fragile? Prior and Pedro couldn't close out a tough 8th inning and because of it their teams are on the outside looking in. As far as Koufax goes, his arthtritis may have been genetic, or brought on by the strain of pitching or a little bit of both. They didn't throw as hard, they didn't have different arm angles, and the didnt have the pitches that do the most damage to the elbow and the shoulder such as the slider, the split fingered fastball, the cutter, the screwball, etc... Pitchers also didn't throw in between starts like they do now, not to mention the fact that there are probably triple the amount of pitchers in MLB that there were at the turn of the century when there were half as many teams, and way less pitchers on a roster. Plus they didn't have the sophisticated arm surgeries that they have now, so that when a pitcher blew out his arm he was done. There was no coming back. So you didn't have injury history's the way you do now. I am sure there are pitchers like Clemens who could throw 350 innings if things were done like they were back in the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 What happened to Slingin' Sam McDowell? Hawk calls him one of the best pitchers he has seen. That is all I know of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 What happened to Slingin' Sam McDowell? Hawk calls him one of the best pitchers he has seen. That is all I know of him. Blew out his arm IIRC. It would have been "routine" shoulder surgery where he would have been out and rehabbing for about a year, then he would have been back to his old self, if he played in today's game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossarian Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Don't agree about the trick pitches and difficult arm angles. The old timers had many trick pitches including the screwball that pushes the elbow out at a hideous angle. I know in any historical argument you can come across as an old grouch. That being said I remain unimpressed with the stamina of todays pitchers. I think one problem is that young pitchers throw so hard and so many different pitches at an early age. I remember when Little League and even High School coaches would have their pitchers go slow on the curve ball and slider. The idea was to build up stamina, velocity and control. Not so today and a result I think is a lot of young pitchers are blowing out their arms. I know that time marches on and the "good old days" are as much myth as reality. I know that todays top female swimmers have shattered all of Johnny Weismullers old records. I still remain impressed by some of the accomplishments of the athletes of the first three decades of the twentieth century. The toughness is almost unreal. Boxers who fought over 300 professional fights, or lasting 40 rounds in a championship fight with a broken arm. Pitchers who'd win 40 games, most every start a complete game. College and early pro football teams playing 3 or 4 games a week. Tom Brokaw wrote about the WW2 generation calling them "the greatest generation." I think the WW1 generation was the toughest generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yossarian Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 What happened to Slingin' Sam McDowell? Hawk calls him one of the best pitchers he has seen. That is all I know of him. "Sudden" Sam McDowell was one of the most intimidating left handers in the 60's. He ranks third in K's per nine innings trailing only Ryan and Koufax IIRC. When he was on he was both awesome and intimidating. He threw as hard as anyone ever did, the radar gun wasn't used that much in the 60's, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Sam hit the occasional triple digits. Unfortunately in the words of McDowell himself "I was the biggest, most hopeless, and most violent drunk in baseball." That as much as anything else shortened his career. I think he made a second career as a motivational speaker counselor after he quit the bottle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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