Jerry Reinsdorf is cheap

[RagahRagah]

24 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

This.  I'm as puzzled as anybody by the unwillingness (so far) to fill the final holes on this team when it seems so easy to do so, and am not a big fan of Jerry.  But this is also a great roster that's the talk of baseball, and like it or not, that's also been built under this FO and ownership.  Some of you should try taking a breath and moderating your views a little bit.  This is a roster most fanbases would kill for.  If your fandom and well being rises and falls on the presence or absence of Garrett Richards or James Paxton at the back end of the rotation you've officially lost the forest.

When you can't even get depth to help with backup then there is far beyond just cause to be angry and pessimistic. 

[iWiN4PreP]

Just now, Kyyle23 said:

Your act is tired

Nah, Jack is one of the post posters on this site IMO. Makes good posts backed up with facts and when he is wrong he openly admits it. Maybe a bit on the pessimistic side, but he's on my top list of posters. 

[iWiN4PreP]

2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

you should write him a strongly worded letter.

Yeah, because we all know that's going to do something. 

This is a serious problem in baseball, not just the white sox. This issue isn't going away. Try to mature up about it or let others vent their frustrations here. 

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

5 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

Dude, Jerry doesn't need to answer to anyone.

You have a choice, there's the door. 

I would ask if Jerry pays you to defend him, but it’s clear that he doesn’t. Why white knight for a billionaire?

[RagahRagah]

3 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Nah, Jack is one of the post posters on this site IMO. Makes good posts backed up with facts and when he is wrong he openly admits it. Maybe a bit on the pessimistic side, but he's on my top list of posters. 

We need a clan, lol

[bmags]

I continue to maintain that the bigger issue isn't Jerry's spending limits, it's that Kenny and Rick continue to act surprised by them. This is a team that has a lot of cheap talent. Thankfully, Hahn was able to lock them up so they can grow for years. But, all eyes for them need to be on drafting, INTL and development. I love having hendriks, but if you were to tell me the sox were going to roll with a 120 mill budget this year but they plan to take advantage of other teams cutting back in intl and going big with scouts and upgrading DR facilities, I'd say that's a good use of money.

Sox with their farm have to get lucky. No regression from the guys that look like they'll be great, Vaughn and Kopech need to hit, and we need our young prospects to show a lot of promise this year to help us load up on ml cheap talent, if not use them.

[iWiN4PreP]

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

I continue to maintain that the bigger issue isn't Jerry's spending limits, it's that Kenny and Rick continue to act surprised by them. This is a team that has a lot of cheap talent. Thankfully, Hahn was able to lock them up so they can grow for years. But, all eyes for them need to be on drafting, INTL and development. I love having hendriks, but if you were to tell me the sox were going to roll with a 120 mill budget this year but they plan to take advantage of other teams cutting back in intl and going big with scouts and upgrading DR facilities, I'd say that's a good use of money.

Sox with their farm have to get lucky. No regression from the guys that look like they'll be great, Vaughn and Kopech need to hit, and we need our young prospects to show a lot of promise this year to help us load up on ml cheap talent, if not use them.

I think you are on to something here. The White Sox almost give off or pose as a team that is willing to spend big. We saw in and around 2005 some top level budgets, but it would be A LOT easier to take in these arbitrary budget constraints if we knew of them well a head of time.

The biggest issue I have and I think many fans have, is that we got constant reminders of how the money will be spent, and how that when the rebuild is ready they were going to go for it, and instead, we have some weird 120 mill constraint these past two years. 

If I were a Rays fan, I'd know to look at prospects and expect my guys to be traded. I wouldn't be happy, but I wouldn't be ready to flame JR on every forum/social media account I have. 

[daggins]

You guys are gonna look real foolish when Financial Flexibility wins the AL MVP.

[Balta1701]

15 minutes ago, bmags said:

I continue to maintain that the bigger issue isn't Jerry's spending limits, it's that Kenny and Rick continue to act surprised by them. This is a team that has a lot of cheap talent. Thankfully, Hahn was able to lock them up so they can grow for years. But, all eyes for them need to be on drafting, INTL and development. I love having hendriks, but if you were to tell me the sox were going to roll with a 120 mill budget this year but they plan to take advantage of other teams cutting back in intl and going big with scouts and upgrading DR facilities, I'd say that's a good use of money.

Sox with their farm have to get lucky. No regression from the guys that look like they'll be great, Vaughn and Kopech need to hit, and we need our young prospects to show a lot of promise this year to help us load up on ml cheap talent, if not use them.

I dont think it’s necessarily true that they were surprised by the spending limits.

If nothing else major happens (still an if), then I think Rick Hahn said “there is absolutely no scenario where my team misses the playoffs, so I am going to target players that help in the playoffs.”

If you were interested in the regular season, you would have built more rotation depth, most likely by holding onto Dunning. You would have added a backup catcher. You might add someone else to the DH rotation, as insurance does people getting hurt. You might well have still traded for Lynn, but you would have used Kelley as the main piece since he’s years away. You probably don’t pay for the number one closer on the market, instead you say that Hand or Colome are good enough and might well cost you zero games.

If you are playing for the playoffs, you have Lynn able to pitch game 2 or 3, you maybe run Cease and a bullpen game in game 4, and you know that if someone gets in trouble early you have Bummer available because Hendricks can end the game. Rotation spots 4 and 5 and 6 matter less. Less need for a DH.

By doing this, if anything goes wrong or someone gets hurt, he may well have left Minnesota or BC Cleveland a way to sneak in around them. It may work, but that’s the bet.

[Rounding_Third]

7 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

I think you are on to something here. The White Sox almost give off or pose as a team that is willing to spend big. We saw in and around 2005 some top level budgets, but it would be A LOT easier to take in these arbitrary budget constraints if we knew of them well a head of time.

The biggest issue I have and I think many fans have, is that we got constant reminders of how the money will be spent, and how that when the rebuild is ready they were going to go for it, and instead, we have some weird 120 mill constraint these past two years. 

If I were a Rays fan, I'd know to look at prospects and expect my guys to be traded. I wouldn't be happy, but I wouldn't be ready to flame JR on every forum/social media account I have. 

& Bmags,  I think the payroll is ~$125m right now but points well taken.  Spotroc doesn't include all the pre arb contracts in its total.  Roster resource has it at $130.5m but over-estimates the pre arb contracts by ~ $5.5m.   

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I dont think it’s necessarily true that they were surprised by the spending limits.

If nothing else major happens (still an if), then I think Rick Hahn said “there is absolutely no scenario where my team misses the playoffs, so I am going to target players that help in the playoffs.”

If you were interested in the regular season, you would have built more rotation depth, most likely by holding onto Dunning. You would have added a backup catcher. You might add someone else to the DH rotation, as insurance does people getting hurt. You might well have still traded for Lynn, but you would have used Kelley as the main piece since he’s years away. You probably don’t pay for the number one closer on the market, instead you say that Hand or Colome are good enough and might well cost you zero games.

If you are playing for the playoffs, you have Lynn able to pitch game 2 or 3, you maybe run Cease and a bullpen game in game 4, and you know that if someone gets in trouble early you have Bummer available because Hendricks can end the game. Rotation spots 4 and 5 and 6 matter less. Less need for a DH.

By doing this, if anything goes wrong or someone gets hurt, he may well have left Minnesota or BC Cleveland a way to sneak in around them. It may work, but that’s the bet.

I am not sure why anyone would be surprised.  I spent the end of the 2020 season and the early 21 off season telling anyone who would listen that the Sox weren't going to spend.

[SHAH]

24 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Nah, Jack is one of the post posters on this site IMO. Makes good posts backed up with facts and when he is wrong he openly admits it. Maybe a bit on the pessimistic side, but he's on my top list of posters. 

 

"Maybe a bit" 

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:

& Bmags,  I think the payroll is ~$125m right now but points well taken.  Spotroc doesn't include all the pre arb contracts in its total.  Roster resource has it at $130.5m but over-estimates the pre arb contracts by ~ $5.5m.   

I took ~10 million off for hendriks so that's where 120 comes from.

[bmags]

Good god, sorry, I don't actually think they are "surprised". But the way they operate looks a lot more like a team that expects to be able to use FA as a major pipeline of talent when that is not the case. You'd thinkt heir offseason would have looked a lot more like San Francisco's than what they did.

[Jack Parkman]

Don't get me wrong, there are still plenty of reasons to be optimistic about the Sox. Moncada being healthy and good is a huge upgrade already. 

I didn't even expect them to land Hendriks, so that alone is an upgrade. I thought they'd end up with Rosenthal. 

It's just beyond aggravating that they're relying on Reynaldo Lopez, who has proven he sucks repeatedly, yet again for 5th starter innings. 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[Jack Parkman]

23 minutes ago, bmags said:

Good god, sorry, I don't actually think they are "surprised". But the way they operate looks a lot more like a team that expects to be able to use FA as a major pipeline of talent when that is not the case. You'd thinkt heir offseason would have looked a lot more like San Francisco's than what they did.

This is a really good point. 

All we're asking is for the Sox to level with the fans about spending. We're stuck in a no-man's land where they operate somewhere in between the Rays and Cardinals. If they're going to go full Rays, fine.....but they better invest in international players and analytics. Nobody knows what to expect in a given offseason, because they're wildly unpredictable. They should just pick an organizational lane and if that lane is the Rays but with $100-120M payrolls that's fine. But you better be willing to not let anyone leave for free, and quit trading Dane Dunning type prospects for one year of Lance Lynn. 

 

I love that they extend their own guys, and if they get Giolito extended, that's great and probably worth being stingy on the rotation. I just hope that Cease can figure out how to find the strike zone because if he doesn't the 5th starter will be a black hole. I expect Kopech to at the very least be ok(like 4.00-4.25 ERA) when he comes up. 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[Rounding_Third]

9 minutes ago, bmags said:

I took ~10 million off for hendriks so that's where 120 comes from.

Oh I see, thx  Still, I believe that $130 at RR is overstated by $5m.

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:

Oh I see, thx  Still, I believe that $130 at RR is overstated by $5m.

After Giolito and Lopez beat my estimate for arb I took the high end for the rest of they guys but we will see.

[Rounding_Third]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

After Giolito and Lopez beat my estimate for arb I took the high end for the rest of they guys but we will see.

Have you looked there recently?  Those new arb#'s are accounted for and factored in the total.  Now just 5 pre arb dudes estimated at $9m.  I est about $3.5m for them leaving $5.5m overstated. Make sense or did I miss something?

[HOFHurt35]

54 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

This HOFHurt35 guy is Jerry's PR Agent?

Off to the ignore list you go, weirdo. 

Says this weirdo :

1 hour ago, iWiN4PreP said:

^^^^. 

Really, most ownership groups in baseball falls under this BS. So it's not just Jerry, but they deserve to be burned at the stake.

 

[Snopek]

Crossing fingers while settling for “good enough”: It’s the White Sox way

[HOFHurt35]

53 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

I would ask if Jerry pays you to defend him, but it’s clear that he doesn’t. Why white knight for a billionaire?

Read through the posts, I'm not defending the cheap ass owner.   I'm calling out you and all the other crybabies who can't get off your dumb ass crusade against the owner as if it has ever mattered for the 40 yeas he's owned the team.  

This is as tiresome as discussing why the ballpark has such a high upper deck, or why it's not facing the loop, or the million other excuses on why fans don't show up to games. 

The White Sox will be a very damn good baseball team in 2021 and perhaps the next 5 years.   ENJOY IT! 

[35thstreetswarm]

Just now, HOFHurt35 said:

Read through the posts, I'm not defending the cheap ass owner.   I'm calling out you and all the other crybabies who can't get off your dumb ass crusade against the owner as if it has ever mattered for the 40 yeas he's owned the team.  

This is as tiresome as discussing why the ballpark has such a high upper deck, or why it's not facing the loop, or the million other excuses on why fans don't show up to games. 

The White Sox will be a very damn good baseball team in 2021 and perhaps the next 5 years.   ENJOY IT! 

Now you've done it, upper-deck apologist.  Why don't you just marry your beloved upper deck.  Maybe it's not high enough for you

[Snopek]

1 minute ago, HOFHurt35 said:

Read through the posts, I'm not defending the cheap ass owner.   I'm calling out you and all the other crybabies who can't get off your dumb ass crusade against the owner as if it has ever mattered for the 40 yeas he's owned the team.  

This is as tiresome as discussing why the ballpark has such a high upper deck, or why it's not facing the loop, or the million other excuses on why fans don't show up to games. 

The White Sox will be a very damn good baseball team in 2021 and perhaps the next 5 years.   ENJOY IT! 

One can enjoy the team while still being upset at their refusal to go from a “very damn good” baseball team to a great one, especially when presented with countless opportunities to do so. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

[Rounding_Third]

1 minute ago, Snopek said:

Crossing fingers while settling for “good enough”: It’s the White Sox way

Yeah, I think the fact that, as of this moment, the division is weaker than they originally expected has changed their spending expectations.  So now just coast into playoffs, get the added revenue of a couple of home playoff games, then fingers crossed for more easy money.