Joc to Cubs

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Jerksticks said:

I don’t really see why it should be such a dramatic drop off for him- gonna have to wait to see how he plays to get a feel for this

He destroyed one of his legs.

[Dick Allen]

25 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Thanks for posting but wow is that terrifying.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

15 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

 

Excellent point.

[Eminor3rd]

1 hour ago, Jose Abreu said:

Eaton's defense is very overrated because of how good he was in 2016. He hasn't been close to that guy ever since leaving the Sox

To the person who tweeted: what's "overtly dumb" is using a 300 inning sample of DRS to try to prove ANYTHING. That's not even REMOTELY close to a predictive sample for DRS. It may as well be no info at all.

However, you're right about Eaton. Remember, everyone, how much of Eaton's elite RF defense with us had to do with his arm score. We talked at the time about how arm-driven performance were often not sustainable -- not because the arm is worse or the performance wasn't "real," but because good chances for putouts on OF throws are vey random, somewhat rare, and once guys get a reputation for having a good arm, coaches tend to stop sending runners. So in terms of his measurable defensive value, it was always a bit of a mirage to project it going forward anyway, and it was one of the things that turned into a good "selling high" point for Hahn back when he originally traded him.

So yeah, given that his actual range was never his strong suit anyway, and given that he's continued accumulate injuries, and given he is now past his physical prime, it would be quite a stretch to expect him to provide any significant defensive value.

 

[maloney.adam]

Hey Joc, you were offered 3 million dollars more to play in the same city but instead you got played because you wanted more money. 

Edited January 30, 2021 by maloney.adam

[GradMc]

17 hours ago, fathom said:

Signed for same as Eaton. Hahn messed up badly.

What a surprise

 

[Angel Hernandez]

Joc is good pickup. I am kind of scratching my head at the Cubbies, sure it was a shortened season, but they were often pretty good last year before losing a 2of3 series with the Marlins (which happens in baseball). They do need to retool the lineup but I have no clue why they traded Darvish, didn't get much from it and he was very good last year. Cubs were better than they believed they were.

Now time for me to take a shit on them for gigs.

Ive enjoyed reading Tom Verducci's book "The Cubs Way" because it stresses how brilliant the Cubs were: Ricketts, Theo-Jed, Maddons genius mind?, young future superstars, how they draft/sign/trade, skys the limit/dynasty blah blah blah.

And simply put, I knew the ceiling of there young players, pitching staff was getting old aside from KH, and Arrieta was the X factor for them in 2015-2016 and his decline/demand was imminent. 

Here they are in 2021, but hey its baseball who the fuk knows what will happen next season. 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Angel Hernandez

[maloney.adam]

55 minutes ago, GradMc said:

What a surprise

 

Hahn didn’t mess up. We offered Joc 1yr/$10 mil but he wanted more money. Keep reading posts above.

[Dominikk85]

I would Like to see more but the team is fine as long they add at least a decent innings eater to the back of the rotation to account for kopech innings limit and possible inconsistency

[A-Train to 35th]

17 hours ago, SoCalChiSox said:

LMAO....April Fool's Day isn't for a couple months, you're a little early there bro.

Adam Eaton .282 Career Batting Average

Joe Pederson .230 Career Batting Average

Pretty sure who the fool is.

[southsider2k5]

46 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

Adam Eaton .282 Career Batting Average

Joe Pederson .230 Career Batting Average

Pretty sure who the fool is.

If someone is only using batting average for player comps in 2021, I definitely know who the fool is.

[Kyyle23]

8 hours ago, GradMc said:

What a surprise

 

He signed for 3 million less than the Sox offered.  You must be stunned 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, A-Train to 35th said:

Adam Eaton .282 Career Batting Average

Joe Pederson .230 Career Batting Average

Pretty sure who the fool is.

It’s 2021 and there are people still using batting average as the primary metric to evaluate the effectiveness of hitters...wow

[Chicago White Sox]

46 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If someone is only using batting average for player comps in 2021, I definitely know who the fool is.

I wish I saw this before posting...lol

[Kyyle23]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

It’s 2021 and there are people still using batting average as the primary metric to evaluate the effectiveness of hitters...wow

It's 2021 and yesterday you called the Sox a shit product so maybe everyone has a little bit of ....wow 

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, Kyyle23 said:

It's 2021 and yesterday you called the Sox a shit product so maybe everyone has a little bit of ....wow 

I called them a shit product?  Please share that post because I’d love to see it.  Meanwhile, just in the last hour I stated the team has a roster capable of winning a World Series ?

[Kyyle23]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I called them a shit product?  Please share that post because I’d love to see it.  Meanwhile, just in the last hour I stated the team has a roster capable of winning a World Series ?

My bad I didn't know you changed your mind today.  Can't wait to see tomorrow 

[SonofaRoache]

15 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

To the person who tweeted: what's "overtly dumb" is using a 300 inning sample of DRS to try to prove ANYTHING. That's not even REMOTELY close to a predictive sample for DRS. It may as well be no info at all.

However, you're right about Eaton. Remember, everyone, how much of Eaton's elite RF defense with us had to do with his arm score. We talked at the time about how arm-driven performance were often not sustainable -- not because the arm is worse or the performance wasn't "real," but because good chances for putouts on OF throws are vey random, somewhat rare, and once guys get a reputation for having a good arm, coaches tend to stop sending runners. So in terms of his measurable defensive value, it was always a bit of a mirage to project it going forward anyway, and it was one of the things that turned into a good "selling high" point for Hahn back when he originally traded him.

So yeah, given that his actual range was never his strong suit anyway, and given that he's continued accumulate injuries, and given he is now past his physical prime, it would be quite a stretch to expect him to provide any significant defensive value.

 

Good point about not sending runners. Not sending runners also counts as runs saved, but can't be quantified. I am hoping that Eaton gets his health and mind right and goes all out to be a 3 win guy next year. He has the potential for sure. 

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

 

Come on man, that wasn’t in relation to this year’s team.  That’s about Jerry’s general refusal to invest in his product to drive attendance and instead needing guaranteed revenue to actually spend appropriately.  That’s not how businesses typically work, but given professional sports teams are a unique beast he can get away with it. 

We are clearly one of the best teams on paper, but our depth is paper thin on the pitching side of things and all it takes is one major injury to the big three for a potential playoff spot to be in serious jeopardy.  I’m not going to sit back and be ok with that when our payroll is down YoY and a measly $8M could make a material difference.

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Come on man, that wasn’t in relation to this year’s team.  That’s about Jerry’s general refusal to invest in his product to drive attendance and instead needing guaranteed revenue to actually spend appropriately.  That’s not how businesses typically work, but given professional sports teams are a unique beast he can get away with it. 

We are clearly one of the best teams on paper, but our depth is paper thin on the pitching side of things and all it takes is one major injury to the big three for a potential playoff spot to be in serious jeopardy.  I’m not going to sit back and be ok with that when our payroll is down YoY and a measly $8M could make a material difference.

Give me a fucking break dude.  The above is a total deflection of your attitude every time a move is made.  Your metaphor of the Sox was that they are a SHIT PRODUCT.  That was the immediate thought in your mind when the Cubs signed Joc and YOU decided that not only did the Sox fail to match but they failed to even negotiate.  Then you don't say shit when you find out that the Sox offered MORE.

 I have never ever said anything other than the Sox are incomplete right now.  I absolutely want them to spend more to firm up the roster.  It's fucking January 30th and you all want to act like the offseason is over because BOB NIGHTENGALE SAID THEY DONT HAVE MONEY.

you guys are so fucking tiring 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

19 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Does he really off the better glove at this point?

Adam Eaton 2020 Sprint speed according to statcast 74th percentile  =very good, outfielder jump 86= even better

Joc Pederson 2020 Sprint speed                                    41 percentile= below average, outfielder jump 25=way below average

Strange that both have an Outs above average of right around 20 . However Joc had 2 OF assists and Eaton had none and that does affect OAA. You would think with Eaton's much better speed and jumps it would be better than Joc. Maybe Eaton's  better jumps could mean he reacts quickly but not accurately so his reads aren't as good and therefore that would affect the start of his route running which would end up being poor.

I tested this theory by looking up numbers on route running and sure enough in 2020 Eaton's routes were a -1.4 Everything else was well above average related to his jumps, reaction, burst and feet covered.

Joc gets bad jumps so his reaction time and his burst are bad but his route was 0.0 so better routes than Eaton but the lack of speed still hurts and and he doesn't cover as much ground as Eaton. Eaton was 11th in all of baseball so despite the bad routes he still covers a lot of ground.

As another example we can use Eloy. Big dude slow to react, ultra slow burst  but decent speed once he gets those long legs moving. Once he does react his routes are pretty good but the Burst is so slow he doesn't cover a lot of ground, less than Pederson.

So by all this research I'd have to say Eaton is the better fielder. Of course I use 2020 and that's a short season. 2019 might be a better way to judge .

You can use this link for the Jump leaderboard https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/outfield_jump?year=2020&min=q&sort=10&sortDir=desc

This link for outs above average , just remember this stat isn't the end all be all of OF's because it's greatly affected by OF assists so in 2016 Eaton was 3rd in all of baseball in OAA while Joc's best ever ranking was 39th in 2019 when he had 5 OF assists and Eaton had 3 .

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/adam-eaton-594809

Edited January 30, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[RagahRagah]

On 1/30/2021 at 10:54 AM, Kyyle23 said:

Give me a fucking break dude.  The above is a total deflection of your attitude every time a move is made.  Your metaphor of the Sox was that they are a SHIT PRODUCT.  That was the immediate thought in your mind when the Cubs signed Joc and YOU decided that not only did the Sox fail to match but they failed to even negotiate.  Then you don't say shit when you find out that the Sox offered MORE.

 I have never ever said anything other than the Sox are incomplete right now.  I absolutely want them to spend more to firm up the roster.  It's fucking January 30th and you all want to act like the offseason is over because BOB NIGHTENGALE SAID THEY DONT HAVE MONEY.

you guys are so fucking tiring 

But that does appear to be the case; it isn't all just based on Bob, lol. And as aggressively as you are taking this position, you're just making the crow you will likely have to eat that much bigger. 

I've tried to convince myself the same thing you are but I've just been fooled too many times to be that naive. 

[SoCalChiSox]

On 1/30/2021 at 7:42 AM, southsider2k5 said:

If someone is only using batting average for player comps in 2021, I definitely know who the fool is.

This. 

[Kyyle23]

1 hour ago, RagahRagah said:

But that does appear to be the case; it isn't all just based on Bob, lol. And as aggressively as you are taking this position, you're just making the crow you will likely have to eat that much bigger. 

I've tried to convince myself the same thing you are but I've just been fooled too many times to be that naive. 

Please, shut the fuck up already.  I honestly don't care what you think

[Chicago White Sox]

On 1/30/2021 at 10:54 AM, Kyyle23 said:

Give me a fucking break dude.  The above is a total deflection of your attitude every time a move is made.  Your metaphor of the Sox was that they are a SHIT PRODUCT.  That was the immediate thought in your mind when the Cubs signed Joc and YOU decided that not only did the Sox fail to match but they failed to even negotiate.  Then you don't say shit when you find out that the Sox offered MORE.

 I have never ever said anything other than the Sox are incomplete right now.  I absolutely want them to spend more to firm up the roster.  It's fucking January 30th and you all want to act like the offseason is over because BOB NIGHTENGALE SAID THEY DONT HAVE MONEY.

you guys are so fucking tiring 

Lol...never once have I called the 2021 team a shit product.  I love this group of players and think we are a legit World Series threat, but am also scared shitless of a complete lack of depth.  And the frustrating part is our lack of depth is an unnecessary risk that could easily be overcome with a tiny amount of spending.  Unfortunately, the owner you’re defending from being called cheap appears to be rocking a YoY decrease in payroll.  How the fuck can anyone argue that is acceptable?

And I was a fan of both the Lynn & Hendriks signings, so which ones am I hating on?  The Eaton signing which I admittedly didn’t like?  What else have we done?  I actually was one of the more positive posters in the Rodon thread now that it’s clear we’re tapped out financially and dumpster diving would be our only option for the 5th spot.  As for Joc, you’re right on that and I was wrong to blast the front office without more information.  Happy to own up to that.

And yes, the roster appears to be more or less set now, so does that change your opinion of things?