I'm coming around to the Sox starting with the team it has now

[VAfan]

We have all -- including me -- been pining for some more additions to the Sox roster.  These positions have been at the top of most people's wish lists, in some order:

- Starting pitching

- DH

- Veteran backup catcher

As the days pass and the Sox don't sign any new players, while other teams start taking potential Sox' targets off the board, it seems more an more likely that the Sox may not do much of anything, or if they do, it will be shopping in the bargain bin for players who won't be guaranteed a major league roster spot out of spring training. 

I'm starting to come around to accepting that, and even seeing it as potentially positive.

Starting Pitching

If we add no one else, the rotation would be Giolito, Keuchel, Lynn, Cease, and then probably Lopez. Kopech would be targeted for an early summer call-up after the Sox capture a year of control.  In reserve, the Sox would have Lambert, Stiever, and possibly Crochet if the Sox try to stretch him out to start the year. 

The first three of these guys are super solid - Giolito, Keuchel, and Lynn - and all were top 10 Cy Young vote getters in 2020. As long as they stay healthy, the Sox will have a strong rotation.

The key player may be Dylan Cease. If the new pitching coach gets Cease on track to reach his potential, it won't really matter who the Sox use for the 5th starter. They could put out someone who won only 40% of their games and it wouldn't derail the season. And you don't need a 5th starter in the postseason anyway. 

I was a huge fan of signing Corey Kluber because I thought his upside was huge. At this point, I think it is fine for the Sox to bring in some emergency depth, but I don't think they are going to find someone who would be better than a combination of Lopez and Kopech, Lambert, Stiever, or Crochet when they are ready. 

That does put a lot of pressure on Cease, but Cease has been a .500 pitcher, and I see him getting better. That's all the Sox need. Anything better than what he's been will be good enough. 

DH and veteran backup catcher

These two things are intertwined. Because if the Sox hold back Andrew Vaughn to gain a year of control, they only need to straddle about a month of the season. Well, the Sox have two potential DHs who also both catch - Collins and Mercedes.  I could totally see those two guys being rotated with Abreu and Grandal to cover 1B, C, and DH at the start of the year. Collins needs more ABs to become effective as a hitter, so using him in the DH slot in addition to backup catching makes sense to me. Mercedes is there just to hold the fort and be an emergency catcher if needed. 

A veteran backup catcher would weaken our offense, and would block Collins from developing. I think that would be a mistake. Collins has great minor league numbers. The Sox should find out what they have in him. 

Now, I'm not going to complain if the Sox sign Nelson Cruz, but I don't think that is happening. I think the Sox believe in Andrew Vaughn and don't want to leave him in the minors for the year. So Vaughn is going to be the main DH and backup 1B as soon as the service time issue is covered. And I'm fine with that. 

*************

Baseball isn't necessarily won by the team who spends the most. The Rays won the most games in the AL and spent a pittance. The A's were similar. To win with those low-cost rosters, you need to draft or trade for young players and give them a chance to play.

The Sox have a bunch of those guys - Cease, Kopech, Lopez, Lambert, Stiever, Crochet as potential starters, and Collins, Mercedes as offensive role players, with Vaughn another potential stud.

Last year we got Encarnacion and held back Vaughn. Was that the right choice? Wouldn't Vaughn have likely been the better hitter by the postseason? 

So, I'm okay with where the Sox are now. They can still add, but I'm not waiting for an impact player, and ready to trash the team if it doesn't acquire one. I think we have several young players who if left unblocked by dubious veterans, could blossom into stars. 

 

[MiddleCoastBias]

And it's come to this, the inevitable final stage.

[T R U]

How is anyone not excited? We’re coming off a playoff appearance and are loaded with young locked up talent. 
 

The doom and gloom around here is baffling. 

[SonofaRoache]

42 minutes ago, VAfan said:

We have all -- including me -- been pining for some more additions to the Sox roster.  These positions have been at the top of most people's wish lists, in some order:

- Starting pitching

- DH

- Veteran backup catcher

As the days pass and the Sox don't sign any new players, while other teams start taking potential Sox' targets off the board, it seems more an more likely that the Sox may not do much of anything, or if they do, it will be shopping in the bargain bin for players who won't be guaranteed a major league roster spot out of spring training. 

I'm starting to come around to accepting that, and even seeing it as potentially positive.

Starting Pitching

If we add no one else, the rotation would be Giolito, Keuchel, Lynn, Cease, and then probably Lopez. Kopech would be targeted for an early summer call-up after the Sox capture a year of control.  In reserve, the Sox would have Lambert, Stiever, and possibly Crochet if the Sox try to stretch him out to start the year. 

The first three of these guys are super solid - Giolito, Keuchel, and Lynn - and all were top 10 Cy Young vote getters in 2020. As long as they stay healthy, the Sox will have a strong rotation.

The key player may be Dylan Cease. If the new pitching coach gets Cease on track to reach his potential, it won't really matter who the Sox use for the 5th starter. They could put out someone who won only 40% of their games and it wouldn't derail the season. And you don't need a 5th starter in the postseason anyway. 

I was a huge fan of signing Corey Kluber because I thought his upside was huge. At this point, I think it is fine for the Sox to bring in some emergency depth, but I don't think they are going to find someone who would be better than a combination of Lopez and Kopech, Lambert, Stiever, or Crochet when they are ready. 

That does put a lot of pressure on Cease, but Cease has been a .500 pitcher, and I see him getting better. That's all the Sox need. Anything better than what he's been will be good enough. 

DH and veteran backup catcher

These two things are intertwined. Because if the Sox hold back Andrew Vaughn to gain a year of control, they only need to straddle about a month of the season. Well, the Sox have two potential DHs who also both catch - Collins and Mercedes.  I could totally see those two guys being rotated with Abreu and Grandal to cover 1B, C, and DH at the start of the year. Collins needs more ABs to become effective as a hitter, so using him in the DH slot in addition to backup catching makes sense to me. Mercedes is there just to hold the fort and be an emergency catcher if needed. 

A veteran backup catcher would weaken our offense, and would block Collins from developing. I think that would be a mistake. Collins has great minor league numbers. The Sox should find out what they have in him. 

Now, I'm not going to complain if the Sox sign Nelson Cruz, but I don't think that is happening. I think the Sox believe in Andrew Vaughn and don't want to leave him in the minors for the year. So Vaughn is going to be the main DH and backup 1B as soon as the service time issue is covered. And I'm fine with that. 

*************

Baseball isn't necessarily won by the team who spends the most. The Rays won the most games in the AL and spent a pittance. The A's were similar. To win with those low-cost rosters, you need to draft or trade for young players and give them a chance to play.

The Sox have a bunch of those guys - Cease, Kopech, Lopez, Lambert, Stiever, Crochet as potential starters, and Collins, Mercedes as offensive role players, with Vaughn another potential stud.

Last year we got Encarnacion and held back Vaughn. Was that the right choice? Wouldn't Vaughn have likely been the better hitter by the postseason? 

So, I'm okay with where the Sox are now. They can still add, but I'm not waiting for an impact player, and ready to trash the team if it doesn't acquire one. I think we have several young players who if left unblocked by dubious veterans, could blossom into stars. 

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

28 minutes ago, T R U said:

How is anyone not excited? We’re coming off a playoff appearance and are loaded with young locked up talent. 
 

The doom and gloom around here is baffling. 

This - echo your sentiments. I get that people want more - but that doesn’t mean you can’t be excited with where they are. They are a better team than last year and despite the doom and gloom - if some young players take further steps forward - they might actually be a lot better than last year and they were pretty damn good than. 

[caulfield12]

15 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

This - echo your sentiments. I get that people want more - but that doesn’t mean you can’t be excited with where they are. They are a better team than last year and despite the doom and gloom - if some young players take further steps forward - they might actually be a lot better than last year and they were pretty damn good than. 

It really comes down to Robert and Moncada looking like superstars, because Abreu’s unlikely to repeat (see Keuchel as well), and we’re down a big insurance cushion in McCann as well...nevertheless, if one of Cease/Kopech can pitch to their ability, they should be fine.

Just like in 2012, a new coaching staff usually results in a positive change.

So we can feel kind of blah (grades ranging from C+ to B for this offseason), but there’s also a general wariness that comes with being a White Sox fan and expecting too much entering a season.   That said, the closest feeling is still 2006.

[RagahRagah]

This team has almost no depth and Cease and ReyLo appear to be our 4th and 5th opening day starters. Literally any injury to any major position will be a huge problem and several guys we may be counting on have to prove they will even be good this coming year.

Being positive and being disillusioned are two different things. Easily conceivable we don't even win the division. Almost everything will have to go right and that is never a rational assumption. Positivity shouldn't be based on a bunch of "ifs."

A lot of people seem to be counting on basically nothing to go wrong when there are so many volatile elements to this team right now. It's as if some people have never watched a full season of baseball before. 

Seems like people are holding out hope we get lucky like we did to win our last title because our owner won't greenlight optimization for our window. 

Edited January 30, 2021 by RagahRagah

[Eminor3rd]

Going into the season with Lopez as the fifth starter instead of signing ANY one of the LITANY of mid-to-back end veterans flying off the board for $8-10mm right now is just motherfucking batshit insane. For this front office not to have budgeted to manage even THAT is absolutely inexcusable. You can't even cry poor JR on this one -- they spent more money on stuff they didn't even need.

The team has so much young talent and upside, it certainly could go far. But it will be DESPITE what this front office has done, not because of it. This front office is actively handicapping itself at this point. I used to be a full-on Rick Hahn apologist, and he has driven me completely to the opposite side over the past few years. They just CONTINUOUSLY mis-prioritize their resources and additions every single offseason, insisting on taking two steps forward and one step back for no discernable reason.

I'm sorry, I know I'm being dramatic, but it's bonkers. There's just no explanation.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Eminor3rd

[Soxbadger]

1 hour ago, T R U said:

How is anyone not excited? We’re coming off a playoff appearance and are loaded with young locked up talent. 
 

The doom and gloom around here is baffling. 

 

33 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

This - echo your sentiments. I get that people want more - but that doesn’t mean you can’t be excited with where they are. They are a better team than last year and despite the doom and gloom - if some young players take further steps forward - they might actually be a lot better than last year and they were pretty damn good than. 

Because they werent around back in the day when we used to talk about maybe getting a guy like Ken Hill for a rebound season.

 

[RagahRagah]

7 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

Going into the season with Lopez as the fifth starter instead of signing ANY one of the LITANY of mid-to-back end veterans flying off the board for $8-10mm right now is just motherfucking batshit insane. For this front office not to have budgeted to manage even THAT is absolutely inexcusable. You can't even cry poor JR on this one -- they spent more money on stuff they didn't even need.

The team has so much young talent and upside, it certainly could go far. But it will be DESPITE what this front office has done, but because of it. This front office is actively handicapping itself at this point. I used to be a full-on Rick Hahn apologist, and he has driven me completely to the opposite side over the past few years. They just CONTINUOUSLY mis-prioritize their resources and additions every single offseason, insisting on taking two steps forward and one step back for no discernable reason.

I'm sorry, I know I'm being dramatic, but it's bonkers. There's just no explanation.

You're not being dramatic; you're 100% on point. 

[caulfield12]

The two biggest miscalculations in terms of allocating resources are Grandal (not keeping McCann at half the price, plus his chemistry with Lucas) and Hendriks, because we already had a full stable of bullpen talent with Bummer, Crochet and a few others capable of closing out games.  

By leaving two huge holes at the back end, not allowing for any falloff from Keuchel and Lynn, we’re going to destroy the bullpen by the last two months of the season.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

37 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The two biggest miscalculations in terms of allocating resources are Grandal (not keeping McCann at half the price, plus his chemistry with Lucas) and Hendriks, because we already had a full stable of bullpen talent with Bummer, Crochet and a few others capable of closing out games.  

By leaving two huge holes at the back end, not allowing for any falloff from Keuchel and Lynn, we’re going to destroy the bullpen by the last two months of the season.

Hard to see it your way about the catchers. 1st the Sox desperately needed a good LH bat and OBP  and they got both in Grandal. There was no guarantee McCann wouldn't test Free Agency especially if he put up back to back good years like he did. Saying just extend Mccann like its a given doesn't mean it would happen. If you're McCann and u sucked enough to get non tendered then this is your one big chance to shop your services to the highest bidder.

[fathom]

No offense, but this post made me feel worse about things. Just seeing names like Lambert, Stiever and Mercedes as possibly being needed in significant roles is scary.  The Padres and Dodgers are acting like teams trying to win a World Series. The Sox seem like they’re trying to win the division.

[Chicago White Sox]

18 minutes ago, fathom said:

No offense, but this post made me feel worse about things. Just seeing names like Lambert, Stiever and Mercedes as possibly being needed in significant roles is scary.  The Padres and Dodgers are acting like teams trying to win a World Series. The Sox seem like they’re trying to win the division.

Yup.  Teams that claim they are trying to win a championship don’t go into the season with Dylan Cease (6.36 FIP) and Lopez (7.63 FIP) as their #4 & #5 starters.  They also don’t rely on a kid who hasn’t pitched in 875 days and who is a bit of a head case to be their only major league pitching depth. I’m still optimistic about Stiever, but he has 6.1 innings above A+ and probably needs another full year in the minors.  Crochet doesn’t really factor into the rotation mix at all this year.  Lambert looks like he will be a reliever going forward.  That means we’re going to see a lot of Flores or whatever reclamation projects we sign to minor league deals (Folty) when injuries occur and that sounds fucking fantastic.

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Hard to see it your way about the catchers. 1st the Sox desperately needed a good LH bat and OBP  and they got both in Grandal. There was no guarantee McCann wouldn't test Free Agency especially if he put up back to back good years like he did. Saying just extend Mccann like its a given doesn't mean it would happen. If you're McCann and u sucked enough to get non tendered then this is your one big chance to shop your services to the highest bidder.

Then why not just go out and get a Joc Pederson or even a Steve Pearce-equivalent that specializes in crushing RHP?    I will reserve the comments on Grandal's overall defense and ability to work with Giolito for mid-season, but can't see how Collins or Mercedes would inspire much confidence there. 

[Texsox]

I'm comfortable especially if the equation involves holding back some cash for deadline moves. Taking on a bad one year contract to fill a need. 

[Texsox]

5 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Hard to see it your way about the catchers. 1st the Sox desperately needed a good LH bat and OBP  and they got both in Grandal. There was no guarantee McCann wouldn't test Free Agency especially if he put up back to back good years like he did. Saying just extend Mccann like its a given doesn't mean it would happen. If you're McCann and u sucked enough to get non tendered then this is your one big chance to shop your services to the highest bidder.

Exactly.

I think everyone dreams of turning down a starting position to be a backup on a MLB roster. Money for nothing. Who would want to play everyday and get dirty? 

[Kyyle23]

Some of you just steal oxygen in these threads, jfc

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, Texsox said:

Exactly.

I think everyone dreams of turning down a starting position to be a backup on a MLB roster. Money for nothing. Who would want to play everyday and get dirty? 

Of course, if they trusted McCann enough in the first place...

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Of course, if they trusted McCann enough in the first place...

They signed him to a prove it deal.   Nobody thought McCann would turn in to what he became for the Sox.  It's not like they signed him intending on making him a cornerstone and then whoops signed Grandal also

[Tony]

4 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Some of you just steal oxygen in these threads, jfc

I feel like I’m walking the line with both sides right now. 
 

The Sox have a very solid roster right now. They should 100% be considered the favorite in the division as it currently stands. And it’s a foundation that should continue to get better. 
 

On the other hand, as others have mentioned (or beaten to death in many threads) this team still has a few rather large concerns that can be alleviated with money. Don’t need trades, don’t need to get super creative, just need to spend some more money to really give this team some much needed depth and truly make them a World Series favorite. 
 

The offseason also isn’t over. If this is it, if the ML roster is pretty much set on January 29th...I think fans have a right to be excited about the season but frustrated at the lack of aggression shown by a FO right on the cusp of greatness.

[Kyyle23]

3 minutes ago, Tony said:

I feel like I’m walking the line with both sides right now. 
 

The Sox have a very solid roster right now. They should 100% be considered the favorite in the division as it currently stands. And it’s a foundation that should continue to get better. 
 

On the other hand, as others have mentioned (or beaten to death in many threads) this team still has a few rather large concerns that can be alleviated with money. Don’t need trades, don’t need to get super creative, just need to spend some more money to really give this team some much needed depth and truly make them a World Series favorite. 
 

The offseason also isn’t over. If this is it, if the ML roster is pretty much set on January 29th...I think fans have a right to be excited about the season but frustrated at the lack of aggression shown by a FO right on the cusp of greatness.

When the season starts, I will get mad about the roster.  It's not even February, a large amount of free agents are sitting out there jobless, and we gotta go through the daily rollercoaster of

OMG THE CUBS SIGNED JOC WHY DIDNT THE SOX OFFER MORE MONEY

oh wait they did

OH MY GOD THEY OFFERED MORE MONEY BUT WHY NOT MORE THAN EVEN THAT I CANT STAND THEM THEY ARE SO CHEAP JERRY KILLED MY PET CAT TOO

[black jack]

36 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

When the season starts, I will get mad about the roster.  It's not even February, a large amount of free agents are sitting out there jobless, and we gotta go through the daily rollercoaster of

OMG THE CUBS SIGNED JOC WHY DIDNT THE SOX OFFER MORE MONEY

oh wait they did

OH MY GOD THEY OFFERED MORE MONEY BUT WHY NOT MORE THAN EVEN THAT I CANT STAND THEM THEY ARE SO CHEAP JERRY KILLED MY PET CAT TOO

The sad part is, you aren't even exaggerating the reactions.  If anything, it's understated.  

Getting tough to sift through the swollen kitties. 

[poppysox]

8 hours ago, VAfan said:

We have all -- including me -- been pining for some more additions to the Sox roster.  These positions have been at the top of most people's wish lists, in some order:

- Starting pitching

- DH

- Veteran backup catcher

As the days pass and the Sox don't sign any new players, while other teams start taking potential Sox' targets off the board, it seems more an more likely that the Sox may not do much of anything, or if they do, it will be shopping in the bargain bin for players who won't be guaranteed a major league roster spot out of spring training. 

I'm starting to come around to accepting that, and even seeing it as potentially positive.

Starting Pitching

If we add no one else, the rotation would be Giolito, Keuchel, Lynn, Cease, and then probably Lopez. Kopech would be targeted for an early summer call-up after the Sox capture a year of control.  In reserve, the Sox would have Lambert, Stiever, and possibly Crochet if the Sox try to stretch him out to start the year. 

The first three of these guys are super solid - Giolito, Keuchel, and Lynn - and all were top 10 Cy Young vote getters in 2020. As long as they stay healthy, the Sox will have a strong rotation.

The key player may be Dylan Cease. If the new pitching coach gets Cease on track to reach his potential, it won't really matter who the Sox use for the 5th starter. They could put out someone who won only 40% of their games and it wouldn't derail the season. And you don't need a 5th starter in the postseason anyway. 

I was a huge fan of signing Corey Kluber because I thought his upside was huge. At this point, I think it is fine for the Sox to bring in some emergency depth, but I don't think they are going to find someone who would be better than a combination of Lopez and Kopech, Lambert, Stiever, or Crochet when they are ready. 

That does put a lot of pressure on Cease, but Cease has been a .500 pitcher, and I see him getting better. That's all the Sox need. Anything better than what he's been will be good enough. 

DH and veteran backup catcher

These two things are intertwined. Because if the Sox hold back Andrew Vaughn to gain a year of control, they only need to straddle about a month of the season. Well, the Sox have two potential DHs who also both catch - Collins and Mercedes.  I could totally see those two guys being rotated with Abreu and Grandal to cover 1B, C, and DH at the start of the year. Collins needs more ABs to become effective as a hitter, so using him in the DH slot in addition to backup catching makes sense to me. Mercedes is there just to hold the fort and be an emergency catcher if needed. 

A veteran backup catcher would weaken our offense, and would block Collins from developing. I think that would be a mistake. Collins has great minor league numbers. The Sox should find out what they have in him. 

Now, I'm not going to complain if the Sox sign Nelson Cruz, but I don't think that is happening. I think the Sox believe in Andrew Vaughn and don't want to leave him in the minors for the year. So Vaughn is going to be the main DH and backup 1B as soon as the service time issue is covered. And I'm fine with that. 

*************

Baseball isn't necessarily won by the team who spends the most. The Rays won the most games in the AL and spent a pittance. The A's were similar. To win with those low-cost rosters, you need to draft or trade for young players and give them a chance to play.

The Sox have a bunch of those guys - Cease, Kopech, Lopez, Lambert, Stiever, Crochet as potential starters, and Collins, Mercedes as offensive role players, with Vaughn another potential stud.

Last year we got Encarnacion and held back Vaughn. Was that the right choice? Wouldn't Vaughn have likely been the better hitter by the postseason? 

So, I'm okay with where the Sox are now. They can still add, but I'm not waiting for an impact player, and ready to trash the team if it doesn't acquire one. I think we have several young players who if left unblocked by dubious veterans, could blossom into stars. 

 

Thanks for a well thought out post.

[scs787]

How many teams really have good depth beyond there starting 5? The front 4 is a lock, and I don't see why Kopech shouldn't be the 5th starter very early on. I haven't looked at the schedule but typically the 5th spot in the rotation can be "Skipped" early on if they wanna hold Kopech down in the minors to get the extra year of service time....adding a high end SP this year never made sense to me. 

We don't know the plans they have for Vaughn so DH might not make that much sense either. 

 

Flowers still out there? He to me makes the most sense for backup catcher. 

 

There's always the trade deadline if a starter goes down for the year and guys like Lopez, Steiver(Who I thought this board liked) and Lambert dont step up and there's no plan for Crochet as a starter this year.