MLB considering 154 game and delayed schedule

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

 

I disagree with this part. Way different sports. You can't win a title in the NBA without the best players and in the NFL in most cases, you have to have an awesome QB. Baseball isn't like that. The worst team can go on a heater for 3 weeks and win the whole thing. I understand the random variance argument. I just thin it's better for the long-term health of the sport that more teams are trying to win and expanded playoffs accomplishes that. 

If this is your goal then you need to add a salary cap and a salary floor, not more teams to the playoffs. Players need to get over the salary cap nonsense and add a revenue share  % for salaries like all other sports. Owners are just fucking them now and it's not going to get better. 

[Jack Parkman]

8 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

MLB revenue is up from 7.86 billion im 2014 to 10.37 billion 2019. This means that player salaries are down from 43.8% of the pie to 38.5% of the pie based on the numbers you're providing so @Jack Parkman is 100% correct. 

MLB players are likely getting the smallest share of revenue of the three major sports despite not having a salary cap and it's 100% due to owner collusion.

Thanks, Ray Ray. 

[Jack Parkman]

8 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

If this is your goal then you need to add a salary cap and a salary floor, not more teams to the playoffs. Players need to get over the salary cap nonsense and add a revenue share  % for salaries like all other sports. Owners are just fucking them now and it's not going to get better. 

I completely agree here. The players have to realize that even a 50-50 revenue split would be beneficial. 

Also, as I've said multiple times, the owners have the best of both worlds. A de facto cap(in the form of punitive luxury tax penalties) and no floor. Since they made the punitive tax rules, I don't think that anyone has exceeded the tax for more than 2 years because that's all that's allowed before penalties start. 

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[southsider2k5]

13 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

There's no comparison between baseball and the other leagues because of the lack of a salary floor.

Even though the luxury tax threshold isn't officially a salary cap, the penalties for repeat overages make it a de facto one. The MLB owners have the best of both worlds. They have a cap and no floor.  

To recap:

Until COVID, there were no spending cuts in baseball.

The amount of teams in the top payrolls increased

The amount of teams at middle payrolls increaesd

The amount of teams at the lowest payrolls decreased

Over the last half decade of normal baseball, payrolls increased by nearly 20%.

[southsider2k5]

8 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

MLB revenue is up from 7.86 billion im 2014 to 10.37 billion 2019. This means that player salaries are down from 43.8% of the pie to 38.5% of the pie based on the numbers you're providing so @Jack Parkman is 100% correct. 

MLB players are likely getting the smallest share of revenue of the three major sports despite not having a salary cap and it's 100% due to owner collusion.

That isn't the same thing as the massive spending cuts that he was trying to sell.

[Harry Chappas]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

To recap:

Until COVID, there were no spending cuts in baseball.

The amount of teams in the top payrolls increased

The amount of teams at middle payrolls increaesd

The amount of teams at the lowest payrolls decreased

Over the last half decade of normal baseball, payrolls increased by nearly 20%.

Did the gross revenue in baseball increase by over 20% over that same time period? 

Sorry I see now that was discussed.

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Harry Chappas

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

14 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

That isn't the same thing as the massive spending cuts that he was trying to sell.

I'd call a 5% decline in revenue share towards labor to be a massive spending cut in any industry, especially a 10+ billion dollar industry, Just my opinion. That's between a $500,000-$720,000 pay cut per player vs expected income since 2014 which is down between 12 and 16.5%. I'll let you two carry this on though.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'd call a 5% decline in revenue share towards labor to be a massive spending cut in any industry, especially a 10+ billion dollar industry, Just my opinion. That's between a $500,000-$720,000 pay cut per player vs expected income since 2014 which is down between 12 and 16.5%. I'll let you two carry this on though.

Except it isn't a spending cut at all, as top, middle, and bottom salaries are still going up.  This is more of a "fair share" kind of argument, which is entirely different.

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Except it isn't a spending cut at all, as top, middle, and bottom salaries are still going up.  This is more of a "fair share" kind of argument, which is entirely different.

Dude, if Revenue is going up at 5% a year, and all salaries are going up on average by 2% per year, everything you just said could be true, and it would still be patently unfair to the employees. (This statement, interestingly, applies to much of the economy).

[Jack Parkman]

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

That isn't the same thing as the massive spending cuts that he was trying to sell.

That is exactly what I was trying to sell. 

Total dollars is a bad measure. Percentage of revenue is a much better one. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[VAfan]

I'm of the view that expanding the playoff field is good for the White Sox because it increases our odds of making it into the postseason. For a fandom that often has had to wait long periods between playoff appearances, I would think expanding the playoffs would get wide acclaim here. 

I'm less concerned about weak teams getting on runs and winning the World Series. The 3-game first round at the higher seed's ballpark is better than the single play-in wild card game. The ability of seeds 2-4 to select their opponent is a nice idea.  I'm not concerned about a team with a poor record running away with the World Series.  Universal DH is way overdue. A single team getting a bye is also reasonable. 

If baseball players aren't maxing out their money compared to other leagues, I'm supportive of them improving their position, but not if it comes at the expense of playing 154 games this year.  The players should not overplay their hand. 

[Vulture]

What’s bad about reduced payrolls. You’re all talking about owners vs players but what about consumers? My grandma pays 100+ a month to watch Matlock and MSNBC not to pay inflated mlb contracts.

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, Vulture said:

What’s bad about reduced payrolls. You’re all talking about owners vs players but what about consumers? My grandma pays 100+ a month to watch Matlock and MSNBC not to pay inflated mlb contracts.

Too much talking about inflated payrolls and not enough talking about inflated profits. 

[southsider2k5]

 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

 

Oh goodness.. Here we go. Lame excuse imo.

[southsider2k5]

4 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

That is exactly what I was trying to sell. 

Total dollars is a bad measure. Percentage of revenue is a much better one. 

It wasn't at all what you said, but after Ray bailed you out by giving you another goal post, I am not surprised you latched on to it.

[southsider2k5]

 

[Jack Parkman]

8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It wasn't at all what you said, but after Ray bailed you out by giving you another goal post, I am not surprised you latched on to it.

Ray's point was the one I was trying to make the entire time. If anyone is goalpost moving it's you. 

Anyone with a brain knows that total dollars spent in payroll have increased over the last 5 years. I argued payroll inflation a while ago. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[ScootsMcGoots]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

"Counter proposal even a question" ...what does that mean? They might not counter offer? 

[South Side Hit Men]

 

24 minutes ago, ScooterMcGee said:

"Counter proposal even a question" ...what does that mean? They might not counter offer? 

There is a CBA in place. The owners can do the right thing in the first time in forever and abide to the deal they signed. Period. 

[Texsox]

On 1/31/2021 at 4:40 PM, Jack Parkman said:

That's due to salary inflation. The best players are getting paid more, the average players are getting paid less or squeezed out. 

I've pretty much had it. We can agree to disagree here. 

In 2015 Max Scherzer got a 7 year, $214M deal. 

In 2020, Gerrit Cole got a 9 year, $336M deal. 

That's where the increase is happening. At the top. Just like everywhere else. 

Rodon just got  $3 mil. I guess that's a bad thing? Better if he could have signed for $5 mil and you would be happier? After all you want the bottom players to earn more. Salaries for entertainers in all areas are grossly over inflated. Put your salary against Rodon getting $3 mil or basically anyone on the roster and it is obscene. Families can't afford to go to games anymore. If it makes the game more affordable for fans then I wish they would also start cutting back on the best players salaries as well but starting at the bottom could work also. 

[caulfield12]

22 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Rodon just got  $3 mil. I guess that's a bad thing? Better if he could have signed for $5 mil and you would be happier? After all you want the bottom players to earn more. Salaries for entertainers in all areas are grossly over inflated. Put your salary against Rodon getting $3 mil or basically anyone on the roster and it is obscene. Families can't afford to go to games anymore. If it makes the game more affordable for fans then I wish they would also start cutting back on the best players salaries as well but starting at the bottom could work also. 

The problem during the last five years is the “veteran middle”...pretty high quality but FAs in their 30’s.  Part of it’s obviously due to shortened playing careers with less steroids in the game, theoretically.   Players are largely done at 33-34.  Obviously there have been a few notable exceptions in all sports, but not many.

[South Side Hit Men]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The problem during the last five years is the “veteran middle”...pretty high quality but FAs in their 30’s.  Part of it’s obviously due to shortened playing careers with less steroids in the game, theoretically.   Players are largely done at 33-34.  Obviously there have been a few notable exceptions in all sports, but not many.

This, that is why I am against extending Lynn, or the 4 year Grandal / Keuchel contracts. 2023 gets ugly quick if Keuchel vests and or they extend Lynn and not increase payroll accordingly.

2023 = Six Players for $90M with the top three old and likely declining, Lynn makes it over $105M for seven:

• 35 Keuchel ($20M if 160 IP 2021 & 2022)
• 35 Grandal ($18.3M)
• 34 Hendricks ($14.3M) 
• 28 Moncada ($17.8M)
• 27 Jimenez ($10.3M)
• 25 Robert ($9.5M).

[iWiN4PreP]

I'm stuck working a lot in the current days but I hope to swing back around to this topic here and have a more enlightened discussion...

As a fan...

a) I hate expanded playoffs. Waters down the product.
b) I hate the idea of starting late (because, of course,  I want my beisbol)
c) I want a salary floor on teams. Teams like the pirates/indians/rays should be forced to spend 100m or find an owner who will)
d) I think this proposal was GARBAGE and the players had every right to reject it, mainly because it gave owners/commish complete control of the season.
e) I am 100% for Universal DH.

Looking at this proposal and *trying* to be unbiased about a future deal...

a) Expanded playoffs are going to happen. It makes too much $$$. I would aim for a medium ground. Just a couple more teams or so. 
b) I would be OK with 154 games and pushing back Spring training if I were the playoffs, that's not a huge detriment. Maybe even doing 162 games with even less spring training.
c) Obviously don't allow the commish to suspend season at owners will, that's stupid.
d) Obviously take universal DH.

I mean... the proposal is so close yet so far away because we can't tell if this was just one big marketing scheme from the owners. Perhaps the owners KNEW the players would reject it due to the control of the season the proposal demanded (through the commish) and made it look like such a great deal for the players. Maybe they wanted the players union to reject this deal to make them look bad. If that was the case, then the two sides are so far a part from making a deal it's a disaster.

IF they offered this deal in good faith, then yes they'd be really close to making a win win deal here and gaining momentum towards a better baseball experience for everyone.

But I think they are negotiating in bad faith and looking to propagandize the population here. Make the players look like the assholes rejecting 'reasonable' deals. 

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

Rodon just got  $3 mil. I guess that's a bad thing? Better if he could have signed for $5 mil and you would be happier? After all you want the bottom players to earn more. Salaries for entertainers in all areas are grossly over inflated. Put your salary against Rodon getting $3 mil or basically anyone on the roster and it is obscene. Families can't afford to go to games anymore. If it makes the game more affordable for fans then I wish they would also start cutting back on the best players salaries as well but starting at the bottom could work also. 

I could open up a can of worms here but I'm not going to do it. It's already been decided that the Buster is closed for good so I'm not bringing it here. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss further.