Squirmin' for Yermin Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Just now, TheBlackSox8 said: Chris Sale started in the pen...this move is fine, and Whitesox-esque. Chris Sale also pitched more than 100 innings in a season multiple times. Crochet has maxed out at 60. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: Chris Sale also pitched more than 100 innings in a season multiple times. Crochet has maxed out at 60. Chris Sale also went down with elbow soreness early in 2012 and had to turn over a table screaming at KW in order to be allowed back into the rotation after they publicly declared he would permanently be a reliever. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: That won't get him to where he needs to be though for next year and future years starting. Needs to get to 80-100 innings. Cant do that in the bullpen. This is flat-out wrong. You definitely can get to 80-100 innings while pitching out of the bullpen for a full year. You can't look at history and see how many guys around baseball hit that mark from the bullpen because those other guys aren't in the same boat. If a plan is put in place for Crochet, they will get him to that innings number. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: Chris Sale also pitched more than 100 innings in a season multiple times. Crochet has maxed out at 60. Chris Sale pitched 100 innings once in his career before becoming a mlb starter...in college. 30 + innings first year up, 70ish innings in year 2 all in bullpen. His first full year as a starter he pitched 192 innings...your argument is null Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 3 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said: This is flat-out wrong. You definitely can get to 80-100 innings while pitching out of the bullpen for a full year. You can't look at history and see how many guys around baseball hit that mark from the bullpen because those other guys aren't in the same boat. If a plan is put in place for Crochet, they will get him to that innings number. Sorry, I meant pitches. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 3 minutes ago, TheBlackSox8 said: Chris Sale started in the pen...this move is fine, and Whitesox-esque. It may be "Witesox-esque" but it isn't fine. Sale was a 5+ win player who was worth 1.7 WAR over a year and a half. The BEST reliever last year wasn't as valuable as Andrew Heaney, Spencer Turnbull or Zack Davies. The 25th best reliever (Colome) wasn't as valuable as Mike Fiers, Logan Webb or Steven Brault. You gotta be on the mound to help your team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Just now, Squirmin' for Yermin said: Sorry, I meant pitches. lol Haha, you actually DID type pitches. I thought you meant innings, so I corrected it for you. My bad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, TheBlackSox8 said: Chris Sale pitched 100 innings once in his career before becoming a mlb starter...in college. 30 + innings first year up, 70ish innings in year 2 all in bullpen. His first full year as a starter he pitched 192 innings...your argument is null So it doesn't matter Crochet has maxed out at 60 innings? Lets say he gets to 80 this year. You're ready to give him 180 innings in 2022? Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) Just now, SoxBlanco said: Haha, you actually DID type pitches. I thought you meant innings, so I corrected it for you. My bad! hahah We friends now. But i still disagree with you LOSER Edited February 3, 2021 by Squirmin' for Yermin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, TheBlackSox8 said: Chris Sale pitched 100 innings once in his career before becoming a mlb starter...in college. 30 + innings first year up, 70ish innings in year 2 all in bullpen. His first full year as a starter he pitched 192 innings...your argument is null Actually this is false, because he also pitched about 40 innings in each of 2009 and 2010 in the Cape Cod league. https://www.capecodbaseball.org/news/season/index.html?article_id=1374 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 19 minutes ago, Bad Hombre said: But stats? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Just now, Squirmin' for Yermin said: So it doesn't matter Crochet has maxed out at 60 innings? Lets say he gets to 80 this year. You're ready to give him 180 innings in 2022? Good luck. His innings amount this year will be the same this year regardless of whether he pitches them in the bullpen or in AA as a starter. It doesn't matter how he gets there, so either way, he'll be in the exact same boat come 2022. That's why I want him to work with our major league coaches out of the pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Wonder if we see a Vaughn extension before Opening Day 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Just now, Squirmin' for Yermin said: So it doesn't matter Crochet has maxed out at 60 innings? Lets say he gets to 80 this year. You're ready to give him 180 innings in 2022? Good luck. Sale spent 2 years away from his 100 inning year...but went and threw 192 innings after throwing 90+ the 2 years before that total. I'm fine with him building up through the bullpen...180 is asking a lot, but if Sale can do it he can do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) I ca 3 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said: His innings amount this year will be the same this year regardless of whether he pitches them in the bullpen or in AA as a starter. It doesn't matter how he gets there, so either way, he'll be in the exact same boat come 2022. That's why I want him to work with our major league coaches out of the pen. I care a lil less about innings and more about pitch counts (stamina). He isn't getting 80+ pitches in a bullpen role. Edited February 3, 2021 by Squirmin' for Yermin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: hahah We friends now. But i still disagree with you LOSER Haha, agree to disagree! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 8 minutes ago, TheBlackSox8 said: Sale spent 2 years away from his 100 inning year...but went and threw 192 innings after throwing 90+ the 2 years before that total. I'm fine with him building up through the bullpen...180 is asking a lot, but if Sale can do it he can do it No he didn't. In 2010 he pitched ~ 103 innings in college, then 33 for the White Sox. Then he pitched 71 innings as a reliever in 2011 - 1 season there. In 2012 he was back as a starter - and was injured within the first month. He was 1 year away from that 100 inning year, and even then it was borderline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: No he didn't. In 2010 he pitched ~ 103 innings in college, then 33 for the White Sox. Then he pitched 71 innings as a reliever in 2011 - 1 season there. In 2012 he was back as a starter - and was injured within the first month. He was 1 year away from that 100 inning year, and even then it was borderline. You're right, moving between sources fooled my thought process. I think making Crochet a starter after spending time in the pen isn't a huge problem. Maybe he's limited when first starting, but getting him to face mlb batters is the key Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, TheBlackSox8 said: You're right, moving between sources fooled my thought process. I think making Crochet a starter after spending time in the pen isn't a huge problem. Maybe he's limited when first starting, but getting him to face mlb batters is the key Personally I think it's the opposite. He'll throw something like 60 innings this year because they'll want to use him as a high leverage reliever, and if the 2021 season happens we'll be at the same spot - "He only threw 65 innings last year so he can't handle a Starter's innings, but he can make our bullpen better right now so let's keep him there". Or, worse, he'll throw 65 innings this year, then a strike will knock out half the 2022 season, and after 2023 he'll be in his arb years as a reliever having never stretched out his arm. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatBallHitDeep_WAYBack Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 A pitcher only has so many bullets until their arm wears out. Would you rather Crochet burn them in AAA in meaningless games or the MLB level in a Hader / Andrew Miller role? Imagine the whining from ST if Crochet has a forearm strain leaving the 4th inning vs. the Durham Bulls... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 minute ago, ThatBallHitDeep_WAYBack said: A pitcher only has so many bullets until their arm wears out. Would you rather Crochet burn them in AAA in meaningless games or the MLB level in a Hader / Andrew Miller role? Imagine the whining from ST if Crochet has a forearm strain leaving the 4th inning vs. the Durham Bulls... "Well, TJS was inevitable with him if he hurt himself in the minors. At least we get it out of the way without blowing a full year of control on him by having him get hurt in the big leagues this year". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxSteve Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 24 minutes ago, fathom said: Wonder if we see a Vaughn extension before Opening Day I have been been saying that for 6 months and got laughed at. I predict he will get a Robert like extension before spring training. I hope so and then madrigal after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 The key is who is making this decision. If Tony makes the call, he is a high leverage guy until Tony departs. If the FO make Tony adhere to what Getz laid out (multi-inning relief role), it could work if they stick with the plan and don't panic and shift him when the inevitable bullpen injury occurs. The bottom line is a healthy Crochet needs to be able to be slotted into a starting role in 2022 if healthy and capable, likely with inning restrictions (140-160?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 I'm not sure is so controversial about Crochet in bullpen? You have to stretch him out and you have to stretch Kopech out. Both should be either in multi inning roles or working as openers pitching 2-3 innings at a time. Over 162 games they'll get their work. Look at Ryan Yarbrough for the Rays as your example. In 2019 he pitched 140 innings. Started 14 games (mostly as opener) and pitched in relief in multi-inning roles. These guys are going to be able to get 100-120 innings no problem. 100-120 IP in the regular season + sprinkling in a few more in the postseason? I don't want anymore than that out of them and I'd rather them take all those innings at the major league level. After you have one more year under your belt of Kopech, Cease, Rodon and Crochet you can better make your decision on what to do with Lynn next offseason. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 10 minutes ago, ThatBallHitDeep_WAYBack said: A pitcher only has so many bullets until their arm wears out. Would you rather Crochet burn them in AAA in meaningless games or the MLB level in a Hader / Andrew Miller role? Imagine the whining from ST if Crochet has a forearm strain leaving the 4th inning vs. the Durham Bulls... Easy... As a starter, where he is most valuable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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