RTC Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 On 2/7/2021 at 5:26 PM, GreenSox said: Even if Lucroy can catch decently (which is not a certainty), the Sox really can't afford his dead bat in the lineup. If you can’t afford a weak bat from a position that is 1/9 of your lineup and primarily defensive (and often better D than the starter) then the correct answer is : “we didn’t build or roster correctly” 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTC Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 6 hours ago, MiddleCoastBias said: To extend that metaphor, you don't give the keys to a Lamborghini to an inexperienced driver like Collins without expecting an accident or two. And you don’t trust the guy that wants to run a Chevy dealership when he tells you he’s offering a Lambo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 I actually think the Sox are saying Collins is not very good and we need a back to the back up. I don’t think they trust Collins at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 47 minutes ago, quickman said: I actually think the Sox are saying Collins is not very good and we need a back to the back up. I don’t think they trust Collins at all. I think they're saying that if either Collins or Grandal get hurt they need to have someone actually able to catch at a big league level, and I'd expect that to almost certainly happen at some point. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rounding_Third Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 7 hours ago, ScooterMcGee said: Hopefully! Maybe James McCann-esque? Wouldn't that be fun? Hopefully he can find his game again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 9 hours ago, RTC said: If you can’t afford a weak bat from a position that is 1/9 of your lineup and primarily defensive (and often better D than the starter) then the correct answer is : “we didn’t build or roster correctly” Yeah, i think with grandal likely catching 120+ games and a strong lineup the bat of the backup catcher doesn't matter much at all. Also Lucroy is not even guaranteed to be the backup catcher, I think he is more an insurance if Collins doesn't improve enough to be at least playable as a backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Lucroy has a composite 0.1 fWAR the last 4 seasons. If you think his neck surgery is going to return him to his former self at age 34, I love your optimism, but don't share it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 12 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Lucroy has a composite 0.1 fWAR the last 4 seasons. If you think his neck surgery is going to return him to his former self at age 34, I love your optimism, but don't share it. yup. I am glad to have a veteran though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 It also is a minors deal so it doesn't mean he is the primary backup but more minor league depth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said: It also is a minors deal so it doesn't mean he is the primary backup but more minor league depth As of now, yes. But keep in mind these kind of deals can also include opt out dates by which if the Sox don't promote him, they have to offer to release him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: As of now, yes. But keep in mind these kind of deals can also include opt out dates by which if the Sox don't promote him, they have to offer to release him. Don’t those clauses usually get reported when a guy signs? Lucroy has a couple obvious paths to the majors with this team, and if he’s ever called up he’ll have to pass through waivers to go back down. I don’t even know if one would be necessary for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Don’t those clauses usually get reported when a guy signs? Lucroy has a couple obvious paths to the majors with this team, and if he’s ever called up he’ll have to pass through waivers to go back down. I don’t even know if one would be necessary for him. Sometimes, but we also know how willing the Sox media is to report something that the team didn't tell them to report Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 On 2/7/2021 at 6:26 PM, GreenSox said: Even if Lucroy can catch decently (which is not a certainty), the Sox really can't afford his dead bat in the lineup. No team can “afford” it’s third-string catcher getting too many ABs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomPickle Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) I think the most likely outcome is that Lucroy spends the year on the taxi squad and filling in when needed. He's a guy that can at the very least come in and competently catch a game here and there without getting regular playing time as a backup or in AAA. Edited February 12, 2021 by TomPickle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 56 minutes ago, TomPickle said: I think the most likely outcome is that Lucroy spends the year on the taxi squad and filling in when needed. He's a guy that can at the very least come in and competently catch a game here and there without getting regular playing time as a backup or in AAA. Yup, and we saw last year he was fine in a minors/alt site role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rounding_Third Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 hour ago, TomPickle said: I think the most likely outcome is that Lucroy spends the year on the taxi squad and filling in when needed. He's a guy that can at the very least come in and competently catch a game here and there without getting regular playing time as a backup or in AAA. I don't know a darn thing abut herniated neck disks or their surgery, recovery, and effect on performance. But if his doc assured him that its okay to play hard, ie swing a bat full speed, the rigors of the position including throwing hard to all bases without consequences, I think TLR gives him every chance to be the BUC on opening day. Collins isn't getting the position handed to him. He's gonna have to prove that a sea change has occurred. My goodness, Lucroy's last 3 years playing with the bad disk (2017-19) blow away Collins! Even if Lucroy just has an average ST (for him historically), Collins will have to be way better than he has. Plus, a vet is just better suited for BUC. Don't see how a struggling Collins improves sitting on the bench 75% of the time. However, I do think that if they have similar ST's, its Collins job. But keeping it would be contingent on his performance; that he can remain somewhat effective given his limited opportunities. That's been an impossible task for him so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Rounding_Third said: I don't know a darn thing abut herniated neck disks or their surgery, recovery, and effect on performance. But if his doc assured him that its okay to play hard, ie swing a bat full speed, the rigors of the position including throwing hard to all bases without consequences, I think TLR gives him every chance to be the BUC on opening day. Collins isn't getting the position handed to him. He's gonna have to prove that a sea change has occurred. My goodness, Lucroy's last 3 years playing with the bad disk (2017-19) blow away Collins! Even if Lucroy just has an average ST (for him historically), Collins will have to be way better than he has. Plus, a vet is just better suited for BUC. Don't see how a struggling Collins improves sitting on the bench 75% of the time. However, I do think that if they have similar ST's, its Collins job. But keeping it would be contingent on his performance; that he can remain somewhat effective given his limited opportunities. That's been an impossible task for him so far. Collins improves while sitting on the bench 75% of the time because he will regularly be learning how to handle a big league staff and how to prepare as a big league catcher, including bullpen work and pre/postgame work, and at this point in his career that is a major thing he needs to learn. Perhaps the major thing that will determine if he is useful long term or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) Came across this 2017 article you may find interesting, regarding Collins' relationship with Grandal which started several years ago. Collins will have to come out strong this Spring in likely his final chance to prove he can be at minimum an adequate backup at the ML level. https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/chicago-white-sox/zack-collins-has-been-training-yasmani-grandal-high-school-and-its-paying-white-sox-prospect Quote Since he started catching, Zack Collins has always had a major league mentor he’s counted upon in Dodgers backstop Yasmani Grandal. Early in his high school career, Collins — who was promoted to Double-A Birmingham from Single-A Winston-Salem on Tuesday — knew he wanted to catch. He sought help from Grandal, who had just been drafted by the Cincinnati Reds after catching at the University of Miami, and convinced him to train together. Edited February 12, 2021 by South Side Hit Men Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 On 2/11/2021 at 7:06 PM, RTC said: If you can’t afford a weak bat from a position that is 1/9 of your lineup and primarily defensive (and often better D than the starter) then the correct answer is : “we didn’t build or roster correctly” Well, they don't have a DH (last year, they did - McCann - although they didn't use him as such with regularity) and have questions in RF and perhaps 2B. Questions at SP #4 and #5 (lots of hitting may be required in those starts). During the rebuild, the Sox auditioned a dozen or more young players who hadn't done much, and McCann was the rare find who blossomed once here. Maybe that's the comparison with Lucroy...among the seeming dozens of declining veterans that the Sox have signed over the years, maybe he'll be the rare one that reverses, instead of accelerates, the decline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rounding_Third Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 20 minutes ago, GreenSox said: Well, they don't have a DH (last year, they did - McCann - although they didn't use him as such with regularity) and have questions in RF and perhaps 2B. Questions at SP #4 and #5 (lots of hitting may be required in those starts). During the rebuild, the Sox auditioned a dozen or more young players who hadn't done much, and McCann was the rare find who blossomed once here. Maybe that's the comparison with Lucroy...among the seeming dozens of declining veterans that the Sox have signed over the years, maybe he'll be the rare one that reverses, instead of accelerates, the decline. Really looking forward to seeing Lucroy in ST. I'm anxious to see if playing after disk surgery >= playing with the herniated disk. I would be very happy with his results during those 3 years but does the surgery permanently restrict certain physical abilities and/or risk further damage more so than the herniated disk itself. If he's slowed by it, his career could be over but if he's not restricted, he could play a major role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Lucroy will be on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Just now, Y2Jimmy0 said: Lucroy will be on the team. Does that mean no Vaughn opening day or that Collins won’t be getting a job out of the gate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rounding_Third Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Lucroy will be on the team. Bold prediction not knowing if his upper body still works at a MLB level. Hope you're right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Does that mean no Vaughn opening day or that Collins won’t be getting a job out of the gate? I'd be guessing no Vaughn. Or actively trying to trade Collins. Edited February 13, 2021 by Squirmin' for Yermin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 18 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Lucroy will be on the team. I have little doubt about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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