Did We Go Cheap Not Signing Another Bat?

[Wisebri224]

6 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

I feel the exact opposite. I feel okay about our DH situation, but feel confident that, no matter who it is, we'll be much less bad than last year with EE. 

My optimism is with the back end of our starting rotation. All four guys there have pretty big upsides. I would say that Cease and Kopech have huge upsides (TOR stuff), and Rodan and Lopez have very good upsides (Let's say solid 3- starter upside). Now, I admit that these percentages are totally off my head, but I think there's some validity there somewhere, and I think I might be being a little conservative in my expectation here, but here goes: 

I think Cease has a 30% chance of approaching his huge upside in 2021. 

With Kopech, for the 2nd half of the season when he comes up, I would say he has a 25% chance of approaching his huge upside. 

I would say with Rodon, due to fear of injuries, he has a 20% chance of being a good 3-level pitcher for our World Series contender. 

With Lopez, I'll say a 10% chance of becoming a solid 3rd starter on a contending team.

Now, add all those up: (and to a simplistic degree odds do work like this), with four options with strong upsides and the odds come to 85% likely that the Sox have, at least, one good pitcher from that group of four.  I think there's a chance that the Sox are very strong with their 4th starter, strong to the point where if Keuchel takes a little step back from last year, the Sox will still be very strong in, at least, their 1st four starters. 

To be honest (and I am an optimistic fan), I think I devalued the odds for Cease, Rodon, and Lopez, but I think I overrated Kopech a little. But that is my weird logic about why I feel good about the back end of our starting rotation. 

 

That isn’t how odds work.  That would be saying 4 guys at 25% chance of being good would guarantee 100% a good starter.  

[Sambuca]

This move makes a lot of sense if he’s cheap, which I’m assuming is the only reason the Sox are checking in.  

[SoxBlanco]

6 minutes ago, Wisebri224 said:

That isn’t how odds work.  That would be saying 4 guys at 25% chance of being good would guarantee 100% a good starter.  

Yeah, with the percentages he presented, there would be a 62.2% chance that at least one of them hits. 

[vilehoopster]

1 hour ago, Wisebri224 said:

That isn’t how odds work.  That would be saying 4 guys at 25% chance of being good would guarantee 100% a good starter.  

Of course 4 at 25% doesn’t mean a guaranteed 100%, but if you do a 25% chance and do it twice, you have a 50% chance of success. So there is something to my logic.

[SoxBlanco]

22 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

Of course 4 at 25% doesn’t mean a guaranteed 100%, but if you do a 25% chance and do it twice, you have a 50% chance of success. So there is something to my logic.

If you do something twice that has a 25% chance of success, you have only a 43.75% of succeeding at least once. Not quite 50%. 

[Ozzie’s Cuban Cigar]

1 minute ago, SoxBlanco said:

If you do something twice that has a 25% chance of success, you have only a 43.75% of succeeding at least once. Not quite 50%. 

No you still have a 25% chance no matter how many times you do it.  Just like rolling a dice is a 16.7% chance every time

[southsider2k5]

35 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

Of course 4 at 25% doesn’t mean a guaranteed 100%, but if you do a 25% chance and do it twice, you have a 50% chance of success. So there is something to my logic.

That's not how this works.

That's not how any of this works.

[SoxBlanco]

9 minutes ago, Ozzie’s Cuban Cigar said:

No you still have a 25% chance no matter how many times you do it.  Just like rolling a dice is a 16.7% chance every time

Of course each individual try is still 25% no matter how many times you do it. But if you do it twice, you have a 43.75% of succeeding on at least one of the two independent tries. 

[Sambuca]

I hate this argument.  

[caulfield12]

Guess some of us need to watch “21” again but ignore the presence of Kevin Spacey...

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Which is a SLIGHT problem when it’s looking more and more probable Giolito will be gone after 2023.  That said, he’s the main loss until Anderson after the following year.

However you look at, doing much beyond 2024 is going to be highly uncertain for the two looming super teams in Chicago and San Diego.  Of course, you’re always going to have the Dodgers, Yankees and likely the Braves or Blue Jays to contend with over these must-be-competitive seasons.

I agree, without internal player development and recent success the FO has had in the domestic class, this will be a short lived window. For me, the coaching hires have been more important than the limited player acquisitions this off-season. Not expecting Katz to work "miracles", but just the continued progress of shifting from 19th-20th century baseball to the current game is encouraging and long overdue. The "Cuban Connection" is the sole available option among how they obtained the current core (tanking or the Robert signing are no longer available).

3 hours ago, iWiN4PreP said:

What are they waiting for

Good question. I can understand being cautious with revenue uncertainty, but to me they jumped the gun again early the past two off seasons. This year was the most fortuitous off-season for teams looking for free agents and patience would have netted more in terms of quality and quantity with a similar or slightly higher payroll. $20M more spread over 3-4 more quality players would have gone a long way toward ensuring the younger position players and pitchers can make it through their first full season.

When you are a $128M payroll team, you can't succeed splurging $30M / year on positional luxuries (Hendriks and Grandal). I understood the Keuchel signing, but it's really going to hurt if he vests in 2023. The one type of free agent the Sox has succeed with consistently over the years have been internal players they knew best. They need to commit to Giolito and Anderson if they remain healthy and productive, or younger external free agents (28-30) to secure players that are not at higher risk of significant decline and injury. Grandal's back problems in year one and Keuchel's implosion in Oakland are concerning given the heavy payroll commitment.

[VAfan]

To answer the question - NO, we did not "go cheapnot signing another bat."  Any "bat" we signed would just take ABs away from Collins and Vaughn, who need ABs to realize their potential. We have a very deep lineup that was second in the AL last year despite getting very little from Encarnacion and Mazara, a Covid-weakened Moncada, and Luis Robert's rookie ups and downs. 

Vaughn should provide more than Encarnacion, and we have enough players to tide us over for a month before he comes up after the service time delay. 

Eaton will hit better than Mazara and platoon well with Engel. 

Moncada should rebound. Robert will hit much better in his second year. Eloy is still getting better, as is Tim Anderson. 

The Sox are going to crush the ball. And think we'll run more to put put pressure on pitchers. If the bottom of the order is Robert, Eaton/Engel and Madrigal, with Anderson the 4th guy, that's a lot of speed and the ability to hit and run. 

And, if anything happens, players can be added during the season. You aren't locked into your roster on opening day. 

For the same reason, we didn't need a Quintana or another mediocre starter who would just get in the way of the development of Cease and Kopech. Rodon may finally work out and provide decent back of the rotation production while Kopech gets ready. We've got other guys to fill in if needed, much like Dunning did last year. That's a much better approach than just buying marginal vets. We did that last year with EE and Gio and those were wastes of money. 

[caulfield12]

5 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I agree, without internal player development and recent success the FO has had in the domestic class, this will be a short lived window. For me, the coaching hires have been more important than the limited player acquisitions this off-season. Not expecting Katz to work "miracles", but just the continued progress of shifting from 19th-20th century baseball to the current game is encouraging and long overdue. The "Cuban Connection" is the sole available option among how they obtained the current core (tanking or the Robert signing are no longer available).

Good question. I can understand being cautious with revenue uncertainty, but to me they jumped the gun again early the past two off seasons. This year was the most fortuitous off-season for teams looking for free agents and patience would have netted more in terms of quality and quantity with a similar or slightly higher payroll. $20M more spread over 3-4 more quality players would have gone a long way toward ensuring the younger position players and pitchers can make it through their first full season.

When you are a $128M payroll team, you can't succeed splurging $30M / year on positional luxuries (Hendriks and Grandal). I understood the Keuchel signing, but it's really going to hurt if he vests in 2023. The one type of free agent the Sox has succeed with consistently over the years have been internal players they knew best. They need to commit to Giolito and Anderson if they remain healthy and productive, or younger external free agents (28-30) to secure players that are not at higher risk of significant decline and injury. Grandal's back problems in year one and Keuchel's implosion in Oakland are concerning given the heavy payroll commitment.

The only problem is there are usually only about 5-7 per free agent class that are in that 28-29 year age range, and many of them end up being $100+ million players in FA because of their early impacts, like Harper and Machado.  The White Sox history has been to take calculated risks on players in their early 30’s, with often disastrous consequences.

It’s (age factor) another reason Pederson was coveted around here for many seasons, as well.  And he’s not THAT young, 28 turning 29 in April.

When Tatis, Jr., hits free agency in four years (more than a 50% probability unless he gets hurt again this season and goes for some security with an extension), he will be just 25, turning 26 the following January.   It’s also the massive risk that teams take when they don’t get that extra year of control by holding a player back into May...seeing how things developed and the fact that 2019 was just too early to compete for SD, it’s likely to come back and haunt them now after 2024.  

[poppysox]

On 2/7/2021 at 10:54 AM, vilehoopster said:

 

Oh my God!  How many more threads are gonna be started bitching about the organization/ owner being cheap, about how we should have done this or done that or added this for that much money. 

I like Rick Hahn's Hoosiers quote, "Our team is on the floor." And it's a damn good team, a damn good one. It is exactly what we fan wanted; it's a World Series contender, a strong World Series contender. For all the bitching on this forum, that is all a fan can ever ask for. 

In this post and so many complaining others the "there's no guarantee" or "what if so and so gets injured, there's not quality backup".  People are upset that, with this present line up (this team "on the floor") that for the White Sox to win the World Series, things really have to go right; they need to stay injury free. That complain is made over and over and over. Well . . .  No Duh!!

Every team ever is like that. If they don't have luck and stay injury free, they're not going to win the World Series. There's never a guarantee, never. Nobody in MLB has spent more money or had better personal or farms systems than the Dodgers and Yankees since the 2000s. Yet before this year, the Dodgers hadn't won a World Series before 1988 (That makes our 2005 win seem recent). The Yankees haven't won a World Series since 2009. No amount of money spent can guarantee a World Series and protect a team from injuries derailing a promising season. I got news for you guys: if Mookie Betts goes down either to injury or a bad slump and one of their top pitchers gets hurt for a long time, that $40 million on Bauer ain't gonna matter. Same thing with the Yankees or Padres, if they lose two important players, they're not making the World Series. 

So it's equally true for the White Sox. If one of our big pitchers go down and we lose one of our big bats, I got news for you, a back up LH bat and better back up catcher isn't going to matter. It ALWAYS comes down to a lot of luck and staying injury free, always. 

I'm excited to see what Vaugh can do. And I've said this before: I absolutely did not want Nelson Cruz, that steroid cheater. I don't want to cheer for a Cruz; I want a team I can be proud of.  

For all our complaining, I want to see what Collins can do, or to see a huge jump in performance from Cease. If we worked in the same office and could have a solid, hand-shake bet, I would bet that Cease has a better year than Musgrove or Taillon or whatever oft-injured pitcher somebody on here mentioned that the Sox have to have to "guarantee" success. 

To justify their complains, people on here are making statement and taking off with them like they're absolute facts. Come on, really?  Are the Sox really not going to make the World Series because Joc Pederson is soooo much better than Eaton. Yet people are having shit fits on this board because we didn't sign Pederson. Or someone bitching about this back up infielder is so necessary when the Sox have Leury Garcia. Really? Are any of the many names listed on here THAT MUCH better than Leury? Ridiculous. 

For all of the complaining on this board, in my opinion, the rebuilt has been a total success, and we have to give Hahn and management credit for it. This White Sox team is what we wanted: It is a strong World Series contender and will be for, at least, four or five years. There are no guarantees (again, ask the Yankees and Dodgers fans). 

All fans can realistically ask for is the ownership and management to give them a a strong team, a team that is a serious World Series contender. And we have that, so if only for a minute or a thread or two, just stop bitchin'!

Well written post and I am in agreement 100%.

[South Side Hit Men]

6 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

The only problem is there are usually only about 5-7 per free agent class that are in that 28-29 year age range, and many of them end up being $100+ million players in FA because of their early impacts, like Harper and Machado.  The White Sox history has been to take calculated risks on players in their early 30’s, with often disastrous consequences.

It’s (age factor) another reason Pederson was coveted around here for many seasons, as well.  And he’s not THAT young, 28 turning 29 in April.

When Tatis, Jr., hits free agency in four years (more than a 50% probability unless he gets hurt again this season and goes for some security with an extension), he will be just 25, turning 26 the following January.   It’s also the massive risk that teams take when they don’t get that extra year of control by holding a player back into May...seeing how things developed and the fact that 2019 was just too early to compete for SD, it’s likely to come back and haunt them now after 2024.  

I get what your saying, but Dye and El Duque were the only examples of it working here in 20 seasons. Fans clamor for the top of market signings, which doesn’t make sense in terms of roster construction for a team with self imposed payroll austerity. That said, it’s not wise to overpay contract length for the mid level older FAs in an attempt to lower AAV.

Also no need to win December, win the off-season. It’s as though they are timing free agent deals and trades hoping to sell more tickets for Christmas, content with overpaying for trade and free agent options up front, when a patient team is at an advantage as the season nears.

This and lack of player development, including poor domestic drafting until recently, have resulted in smarter small market teams owning the Sox since the creation of the AL Central. A well run ball club would own this division on a consistent basis, even with a JR payroll.

[Soxsi75]

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

Well written post and I am in agreement 100%.

I agree with nearly all that you said. My one objection, is what made me start this. Should we have signed Cruz and then give Vaughn 150-200 At bats? That's still giving Vaughn a chance for us to see what he can do. But with less pressure. Now he has to produce. What you are saying about Cruz being a cheater.....that's more personal and I see your point. But what I really care about is the White Sox winning. And it comes down then to a couple of very simple questions. Is our lineup better this year with Cruz in it or with Vaughn in it everyday? If Vaughn can produce exactly as much as Cruz, then I'm OK with it. And second, and probably more importantly, is Minnesota's lineup right now better than ours? If anyone answers yes, then it has to be at least partly because of Cruz being in it, and that makes my point for me. And the other part I disagree with you on is Collins. We've seen what he can do and I truly think nothing of him. The sabergeeks like him because he could draw the occasional walk in the minors, but he hasn't shown he can hit major league pitching enough to warrant playing every day. 

 

[Soxsi75]

On 2/7/2021 at 9:54 AM, vilehoopster said:

 

Oh my God!  How many more threads are gonna be started bitching about the organization/ owner being cheap, about how we should have done this or done that or added this for that much money. 

I like Rick Hahn's Hoosiers quote, "Our team is on the floor." And it's a damn good team, a damn good one. It is exactly what we fan wanted; it's a World Series contender, a strong World Series contender. For all the bitching on this forum, that is all a fan can ever ask for. 

In this post and so many complaining others the "there's no guarantee" or "what if so and so gets injured, there's not quality backup".  People are upset that, with this present line up (this team "on the floor") that for the White Sox to win the World Series, things really have to go right; they need to stay injury free. That complain is made over and over and over. Well . . .  No Duh!!

Every team ever is like that. If they don't have luck and stay injury free, they're not going to win the World Series. There's never a guarantee, never. Nobody in MLB has spent more money or had better personal or farms systems than the Dodgers and Yankees since the 2000s. Yet before this year, the Dodgers hadn't won a World Series before 1988 (That makes our 2005 win seem recent). The Yankees haven't won a World Series since 2009. No amount of money spent can guarantee a World Series and protect a team from injuries derailing a promising season. I got news for you guys: if Mookie Betts goes down either to injury or a bad slump and one of their top pitchers gets hurt for a long time, that $40 million on Bauer ain't gonna matter. Same thing with the Yankees or Padres, if they lose two important players, they're not making the World Series. 

So it's equally true for the White Sox. If one of our big pitchers go down and we lose one of our big bats, I got news for you, a back up LH bat and better back up catcher isn't going to matter. It ALWAYS comes down to a lot of luck and staying injury free, always. 

I'm excited to see what Vaugh can do. And I've said this before: I absolutely did not want Nelson Cruz, that steroid cheater. I don't want to cheer for a Cruz; I want a team I can be proud of.  

For all our complaining, I want to see what Collins can do, or to see a huge jump in performance from Cease. If we worked in the same office and could have a solid, hand-shake bet, I would bet that Cease has a better year than Musgrove or Taillon or whatever oft-injured pitcher somebody on here mentioned that the Sox have to have to "guarantee" success. 

To justify their complains, people on here are making statement and taking off with them like they're absolute facts. Come on, really?  Are the Sox really not going to make the World Series because Joc Pederson is soooo much better than Eaton. Yet people are having shit fits on this board because we didn't sign Pederson. Or someone bitching about this back up infielder is so necessary when the Sox have Leury Garcia. Really? Are any of the many names listed on here THAT MUCH better than Leury? Ridiculous. 

For all of the complaining on this board, in my opinion, the rebuilt has been a total success, and we have to give Hahn and management credit for it. This White Sox team is what we wanted: It is a strong World Series contender and will be for, at least, four or five years. There are no guarantees (again, ask the Yankees and Dodgers fans). 

All fans can realistically ask for is the ownership and management to give them a a strong team, a team that is a serious World Series contender. And we have that, so if only for a minute or a thread or two, just stop bitchin'!

I agree with nearly all that you said. My one objection, is what made me start this. Should we have signed Cruz and then give Vaughn 150-200 At bats? That's still giving Vaughn a chance for us to see what he can do. But with less pressure. Now he has to produce. What you are saying about Cruz being a cheater.....that's more personal and I see your point. But what I really care about is the White Sox winning. And it comes down then to a couple of very simple questions. Is our lineup better this year with Cruz in it or with Vaughn in it everyday? If Vaughn can produce exactly as much as Cruz, then I'm OK with it. And second, and probably more importantly, is Minnesota's lineup right now better than ours? If anyone answers yes, then it has to be at least partly because of Cruz being in it, and that makes my point for me. And the other part I disagree with you on is Collins. We've seen what he can do and I truly think nothing of him. The sabergeeks like him because he could draw the occasional walk in the minors, but he hasn't shown he can hit major league pitching enough to warrant playing every day. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

On 2/7/2021 at 9:54 AM, vilehoopster said:

 

Oh my God!  How many more threads are gonna be started bitching about the organization/ owner being cheap, about how we should have done this or done that or added this for that much money. 

I like Rick Hahn's Hoosiers quote, "Our team is on the floor." And it's a damn good team, a damn good one. It is exactly what we fan wanted; it's a World Series contender, a strong World Series contender. For all the bitching on this forum, that is all a fan can ever ask for. 

In this post and so many complaining others the "there's no guarantee" or "what if so and so gets injured, there's not quality backup".  People are upset that, with this present line up (this team "on the floor") that for the White Sox to win the World Series, things really have to go right; they need to stay injury free. That complain is made over and over and over. Well . . .  No Duh!!

Every team ever is like that. If they don't have luck and stay injury free, they're not going to win the World Series. There's never a guarantee, never. Nobody in MLB has spent more money or had better personal or farms systems than the Dodgers and Yankees since the 2000s. Yet before this year, the Dodgers hadn't won a World Series before 1988 (That makes our 2005 win seem recent). The Yankees haven't won a World Series since 2009. No amount of money spent can guarantee a World Series and protect a team from injuries derailing a promising season. I got news for you guys: if Mookie Betts goes down either to injury or a bad slump and one of their top pitchers gets hurt for a long time, that $40 million on Bauer ain't gonna matter. Same thing with the Yankees or Padres, if they lose two important players, they're not making the World Series. 

So it's equally true for the White Sox. If one of our big pitchers go down and we lose one of our big bats, I got news for you, a back up LH bat and better back up catcher isn't going to matter. It ALWAYS comes down to a lot of luck and staying injury free, always. 

I'm excited to see what Vaugh can do. And I've said this before: I absolutely did not want Nelson Cruz, that steroid cheater. I don't want to cheer for a Cruz; I want a team I can be proud of.  

For all our complaining, I want to see what Collins can do, or to see a huge jump in performance from Cease. If we worked in the same office and could have a solid, hand-shake bet, I would bet that Cease has a better year than Musgrove or Taillon or whatever oft-injured pitcher somebody on here mentioned that the Sox have to have to "guarantee" success. 

To justify their complains, people on here are making statement and taking off with them like they're absolute facts. Come on, really?  Are the Sox really not going to make the World Series because Joc Pederson is soooo much better than Eaton. Yet people are having shit fits on this board because we didn't sign Pederson. Or someone bitching about this back up infielder is so necessary when the Sox have Leury Garcia. Really? Are any of the many names listed on here THAT MUCH better than Leury? Ridiculous. 

For all of the complaining on this board, in my opinion, the rebuilt has been a total success, and we have to give Hahn and management credit for it. This White Sox team is what we wanted: It is a strong World Series contender and will be for, at least, four or five years. There are no guarantees (again, ask the Yankees and Dodgers fans). 

All fans can realistically ask for is the ownership and management to give them a a strong team, a team that is a serious World Series contender. And we have that, so if only for a minute or a thread or two, just stop bitchin'!

Since 2006, the Yankees have made the playoffs 11 times.

Since 2006, the Dodgers have made the playoffs 11 times.

Since 1906 the Chicago White Sox have made the playoffs 11 times. 

Practically the same thing, no idea why Sox fans would be upset that when one of those 11 times, after years and years of tanking and failure, the Sox wouldn't actually support the rare opportunity they have had to make the playoffs twice in a row... for the first time in team history. 

Between you, Poppy and VA fan you guys could supply the entire town of Flint with the fresh water that you carry for this organization.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

22 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

I feel the exact opposite. I feel okay about our DH situation, but feel confident that, no matter who it is, we'll be much less bad than last year with EE. 

My optimism is with the back end of our starting rotation. All four guys there have pretty big upsides. I would say that Cease and Kopech have huge upsides (TOR stuff), and Rodan and Lopez have very good upsides (Let's say solid 3- starter upside). Now, I admit that these percentages are totally off my head, but I think there's some validity there somewhere, and I think I might be being a little conservative in my expectation here, but here goes: 

I think Cease has a 30% chance of approaching his huge upside in 2021. 

With Kopech, for the 2nd half of the season when he comes up, I would say he has a 25% chance of approaching his huge upside. 

I would say with Rodon, due to fear of injuries, he has a 20% chance of being a good 3-level pitcher for our World Series contender. 

With Lopez, I'll say a 10% chance of becoming a solid 3rd starter on a contending team.

Now, add all those up: (and to a simplistic degree odds do work like this), with four options with strong upsides and the odds come to 85% likely that the Sox have, at least, one good pitcher from that group of four.  I think there's a chance that the Sox are very strong with their 4th starter, strong to the point where if Keuchel takes a little step back from last year, the Sox will still be very strong in, at least, their 1st four starters. 

To be honest (and I am an optimistic fan), I think I devalued the odds for Cease, Rodon, and Lopez, but I think I overrated Kopech a little. But that is my weird logic about why I feel good about the back end of our starting rotation. 

 

This is amazing.

To keep this as simple as possible, the probability of both Cease and Kopech being good based on the percentages you provided is 7.5%. 

Based on the percentages you provided, the probability of ONE of those pitchers being good is 62.2%. The probability of two of those pitchers being good is 38.4%. I won't even get into how the Lopez and Rodon odds are way too high, or the fact that these aren't independent events and they are very much reliant on each other, but based on the numbers you provided the Sox have a 38.4% chance of succeeding with their currently constructed rotation in a vacuum where none of the one set of outcomes predicts the other.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[NCsoxfan]

Who is the best FA available that would reasonably fit into our lineup/bench that would also fit payroll?

[michelangelosmonkey]

3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Since 2006, the Yankees have made the playoffs 11 times.

Since 2006, the Dodgers have made the playoffs 11 times.

Since 1906 the Chicago White Sox have made the playoffs 11 times. 

Practically the same thing, no idea why Sox fans would be upset that when one of those 11 times, after years and years of tanking and failure, the Sox wouldn't actually support the rare opportunity they have had to make the playoffs twice in a row... for the first time in team history. 

Between you, Poppy and VA fan you guys could supply the entire town of Flint with the fresh water that you carry for this organization.

Oh I see what you did there...from 1920-1982 the White Sox went to the playoffs once and you can make the optimists look stupid for supporting a team that hasn't made the playoffs very often going back to 1906...hahaha.   It hasn't been a legendary franchise...but it's our team so I'm not sure WTF is your point outside of slamming some of the positive people??    White Sox had a playoff team last year and have added two of the top Cy Young candidates from 2020, a solid right fielder, a hall of fame manager, a hot shot pitching coach and will be adding three of top fifty prospects in all baseball to their core of good young players...and you and your ilk want to b**** non stop because we didn't go after some other teams garbage.   Honestly give me the water carriers over your cabal of urine carriers.           

[poppysox]

8 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Oh I see what you did there...from 1920-1982 the White Sox went to the playoffs once and you can make the optimists look stupid for supporting a team that hasn't made the playoffs very often going back to 1906...hahaha.   It hasn't been a legendary franchise...but it's our team so I'm not sure WTF is your point outside of slamming some of the positive people??    White Sox had a playoff team last year and have added two of the top Cy Young candidates from 2020, a solid right fielder, a hall of fame manager, a hot shot pitching coach and will be adding three of top fifty prospects in all baseball to their core of good young players...and you and your ilk want to b**** non stop because we didn't go after some other teams garbage.   Honestly give me the water carriers over your cabal of urine carriers.           

And...the playoff system didn't start until 1968 so why are we talking about 1906 forward?  You would never suspect some of these guys are really fans.

[michelangelosmonkey]

10 minutes ago, poppysox said:

And...the playoff system didn't start until 1968 so why are we talking about 1906 forward?  You would never suspect some of these guys are really fans.

And the Sox have gone to the playoffs 6 times, won the equivalent of 90 games 8 times and won a WS in JR's 32 year reign...we are above .500 in that time...we aren't the Yankees but not a laughingstock.   In fairness the rebuild has been REALLY hard.   7 years of losing an average of 92 games...the spirits flag...but the future is so bright.     

[Soxsi75]

35 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Oh I see what you did there...from 1920-1982 the White Sox went to the playoffs once and you can make the optimists look stupid for supporting a team that hasn't made the playoffs very often going back to 1906...hahaha.   It hasn't been a legendary franchise...but it's our team so I'm not sure WTF is your point outside of slamming some of the positive people??    White Sox had a playoff team last year and have added two of the top Cy Young candidates from 2020, a solid right fielder, a hall of fame manager, a hot shot pitching coach and will be adding three of top fifty prospects in all baseball to their core of good young players...and you and your ilk want to b**** non stop because we didn't go after some other teams garbage.   Honestly give me the water carriers over your cabal of urine carriers.           

You're right about just about all you said. Except the line you said that we shouldn't be upset that "we didn't go after some other teams garbage." Nelson Cruz isn't garbage. That was my argument of what they should have gone after to be stronger for THIS year. 

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by Soxsi75

[poppysox]

2 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

And the Sox have gone to the playoffs 6 times, won the equivalent of 90 games 8 times and won a WS in JR's 32 year reign...we are above .500 in that time...we aren't the Yankees but not a laughingstock.   In fairness the rebuild has been REALLY hard.   7 years of losing an average of 92 games...the spirits flag...but the future is so bright.     

At least 7 years of winning!