Predict the Lineup

[VAfan]

5 hours ago, flavum said:

Anderson, Moncada, Abreu, Jimenez, Grandal. Vaughn, Robert, Eaton, Madrigal

This would be my lineup too. 

Anderson is the table setter for the whole offense. Has great speed. Will continue to get better. 

Moncada is #2 so you don't need any kind of platoon, and no reliever will gain an advantage.

Abreu is the MVP.  

Jimenez is the heir apparent to Abreu's role. Bats behind him in case Abreu is out or walks.

Grandal is the second lefty/switch hitter. High on base percentage.

Vaughn/Collins. Vaughn will also be a high OBP guy, with less power and speed than Robert, which is why I put him here.

Robert. At some point he'll have to move up. But for now, I like his HR power cleaning up the high OBP guys ahead, and his speed ahead of the two guys with the least power on the team.  I expect LaRussa to use the speed of Robert, Eaton/Engel, Madrigal, and Anderson to disrupt pitchers.

Eaton/Engel.  With Madrigal it's like a second lead-off group to bring the order around to Anderson. 

Madrigal.  He's not easy to get out.  Can hit-and-run with Eaton or Engel.  Having the 4 fastest players grouped together gives the White Sox another dimension other than just slugging teams to death.  LaRussa will use this as a weapon 

 

[Sambuca]

I feel like La Russa will make a strong attempt to use Eaton in the 2 hole, and he will stay there if he can remain anywhere around .280/.340.

1. Anderson

2. Eaton

3. Abreu

4. Eloy

5. Grandal

6. Robert

7. Moncada

8. Vaughn

9. Madrigal

My lineup: 

1. Anderson

2. Moncada

3. Eloy

4. Abreu

5. Grandal

6. Robert

7. Vaughn 

8. Eaton

9. Madrigal

[VAfan]

21 minutes ago, Sambuca said:

I feel like La Russa will make a strong attempt to use Eaton in the 2 hole, and he will stay there if he can remain anywhere around .280/.340.

There are a few problems with using Eaton in the 2 hole. 

First, he's not nearly as good of a hitter as Moncada, assuming Moncada returns to 2019 form. You don't give extra ABs to worse hitters.

Second, he's a platoon hitter, at least part of the time, vulnerable to lefty relievers. Moncada is a switch hitter, able to handle whatever reliever is thrown at him in the late innings.

Third, Eaton can be a good hit and run player, both behind Robert, but more importantly, ahead of Madrigal. You don't want to hit and run with Abreu behind you. You don't want to try to steal ahead of Abreu when it might result in an out. If you do it in front of Madrigal, you turn him into an RBI guy with just a single, and if you end the inning with an out, Madrigal is a fine lead off hitter for the next inning. 

Fourth, by grouping Robert, Eaton/Engel, Madrigal at the bottom, followed by Anderson, gives the Sox their speed together with no one to clog the bases between them.  I think LaRussa will use that speed to put pressure on opposing pitchers and produce more small-ball runs than we did last year. 

[Sambuca]

14 minutes ago, VAfan said:

There are a few problems with using Eaton in the 2 hole. 

First, he's not nearly as good of a hitter as Moncada, assuming Moncada returns to 2019 form. You don't give extra ABs to worse hitters.

Second, he's a platoon hitter, at least part of the time, vulnerable to lefty relievers. Moncada is a switch hitter, able to handle whatever reliever is thrown at him in the late innings.

Third, Eaton can be a good hit and run player, both behind Robert, but more importantly, ahead of Madrigal. You don't want to hit and run with Abreu behind you. You don't want to try to steal ahead of Abreu when it might result in an out. If you do it in front of Madrigal, you turn him into an RBI guy with just a single, and if you end the inning with an out, Madrigal is a fine lead off hitter for the next inning. 

Fourth, by grouping Robert, Eaton/Engel, Madrigal at the bottom, followed by Anderson, gives the Sox their speed together with no one to clog the bases between them.  I think LaRussa will use that speed to put pressure on opposing pitchers and produce more small-ball runs than we did last year. 

Don’t need to convince me.  I have Moncada 2nd too.  

I get the feeling La Russa will want Eaton to use that “pesky” “edge” at the top of the order. 

If Eaton can put up at least a .340 OBP and show some speed, La Russa will be able to justify it.  

I understand Moncada can be also be putting up a .340 and showing some speed, but La Russa will make him force his way to the top of the order.  

It feels weird defending my post as La Russa.

I don’t think the La Russa lineup I provided will be the lineup by mid season, but it’s what the man wants.  It’s what I feel when I channel my inner La Russa.  That just basically means I’m drunk, brother.

[pcq]

6 hours ago, flavum said:

Anderson, Moncada, Abreu, Jimenez, Grandal. Vaughn, Robert, Eaton, Madrigal

You youngsters might not recall that LaRussa invented the second leadoff guy in the nine spot. Julio Cruz. 

[tray]

I have not seen enough Vaughn at-bats to have the same confidence others have in him in as an every day DH against RH and LH starters.

Lucroy could possibly beat out Collins as back-up catcher.  Regardless of who wins that role, they could become part of a platoon with Grandal and others at DH if Vaughn does not work out.

 

[South Side Hit Men]

My OD Lineup: SP Giolito 1. Anderson SS, 2. Moncada* 3B, 3. Abreu 1B, 4. Jimenez LF, 5, Robert CF, 6. Grandal* C, 7. Engel RF, 8. Vaughn DH, 9. Madrigal 2B

Crony La Russa's OD Lineup: SP Lynn 1. Madrigal 2B, 2. Eaton^ RF, 3. Abreu DH ,4. Jimenez LF, 5. Grandal* 1B, 6. Anderson SS, 7. Moncada* 3B, 8. LuCroy C, 9. Robert CF,

 

 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

50 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

My OD Lineup: SP Giolito 1. Anderson SS, 2. Moncada* 3B, 3. Abreu 1B, 4. Jimenez LF, 5, Robert CF, 6. Grandal* C, 7. Engel RF, 8. Vaughn DH, 9. Madrigal 2B

Crony La Russa's OD Lineup: SP Lynn 1. Madrigal 2B, 2. Eaton^ RF, 3. Abreu DH ,4. Jimenez LF, 5. Grandal* 1B, 6. Anderson SS, 7. Moncada* 3B, 8. LuCroy C, 9. Robert CF,

 

 

I can't tell if youre just making a joke with both of these.

[TheCommish]

I'm actually suprised, here is what I think Tony will do:

Robert (R)

Anderson (R) (potential .300 hitter)

Moncada (S) (potential .300 hitter)

Abreu (R) (potential .300 hitter)

Jimenez (R) (potential .300 hitter)

Grandal (S)

Vaughn (R)

Eaton (L)

Madrigal (R) (potential .300 hitter)

 

You never havve more than 2 of the same side batting together. Gives a good L/R balance to the line up and I think Robert at the top protects him so much better, and his speed would just kill with TA, Moncada/Abreu behind him. The amount of good pitches that TA/Moncada will see with Robert on base will skyrocket their seasons, IMO. 

Also the amount of good hitters behind Robert, surely will get him a ton more good pitches to hit, rather than him hitting 7th before Eaton. Why pitch to Robert when Eaton is behind him. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by TheCommish

[hogan873]

Hard to imagine Anderson not leading off.

Anderson
Moncada
Abreu
Jimenez
Grandal
Robert
Vaughn
Eaton/Engel
Madrigal

[Harold's Leg Lift]

OD lineup: 

Anderson 6

 Eaton 9

Abreu 3

Grandal DH

Jimenez 7

Moncada 5

Robert 8

Lucroy 2

Madrigal 4

 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

If Lucroy is in the opening day lineup then this off-season was even more of a disaster than I initially thought.

[Rowand44]

39 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

Hard to imagine Anderson not leading off.

Anderson
Moncada
Abreu
Jimenez
Grandal
Robert
Vaughn
Eaton/Engel
Madrigal

Not sure if this is going to be Tony’s lineup but it’d be mine.  

[ron883]

25 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

OD lineup: 

Anderson 6

 Eaton 9

Abreu 3

Grandal DH

Jimenez 7

Moncada 5

Robert 8

Lucroy 2

Madrigal 4

 

Why are you obsessed with DHing Grandal?

 

[TheCommish]

5 hours ago, hogan873 said:

Hard to imagine Anderson not leading off.

Anderson
Moncada
Abreu
Jimenez
Grandal
Robert
Vaughn
Eaton/Engel
Madrigal

I actually see a huge advantage to Anderson moving down to 2, TBH. His ability to hit runners in and allow Robert at the top to steal 2nd and 3rd base is better than Robert hitting 7th ahead of a light hitting Eaton/Madrigal. It makes this line-up 3x stronger with Robert ahead of Anderson. I like Moncada at 3 because of switch hitter, but I wouldn't argue with Abrue 3 and Moncada 5. Just don't really want Grandal and Moncada B2B. 

[Bob Sacamano]

42 minutes ago, TheCommish said:

I actually see a huge advantage to Anderson moving down to 2, TBH. His ability to hit runners in and allow Robert at the top to steal 2nd and 3rd base is better than Robert hitting 7th ahead of a light hitting Eaton/Madrigal. It makes this line-up 3x stronger with Robert ahead of Anderson. I like Moncada at 3 because of switch hitter, but I wouldn't argue with Abrue 3 and Moncada 5. Just don't really want Grandal and Moncada B2B. 

Lets see Robert get on base consistent enough before hitting him leadoff.

[TheCommish]

26 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

Lets see Robert get on base consistent enough before hitting him leadoff.

It's harder for him to get on consistenly getting shitty pitches hitting ahead of Eaton than it would be hitting in front of Anderson/Moncada/Abreu. In the lead off spot last year while Anderson was out with an injury was his best few weeks, if I remember correctly. That's all I'm saying. 

[pcq]

17 hours ago, Sambuca said:

Don’t need to convince me.  I have Moncada 2nd too.  

I get the feeling La Russa will want Eaton to use that “pesky” “edge” at the top of the order. 

If Eaton can put up at least a .340 OBP and show some speed, La Russa will be able to justify it.  

I understand Moncada can be also be putting up a .340 and showing some speed, but La Russa will make him force his way to the top of the order.  

It feels weird defending my post as La Russa.

I don’t think the La Russa lineup I provided will be the lineup by mid season, but it’s what the man wants.  It’s what I feel when I channel my inner La Russa.  That just basically means I’m drunk, brother.

I could see LaRussa using Eaton for leadoff. Not every day of course. Loves the vets. 

[VAfan]

I think Robert will eventually move up in the lineup, but you have to assume that he'll start the year somewhere around where he finished. He showed power but struck out way too much. Pitchers won't throw him anything to hit until he shows plate discipline. It won't matter who is hitting behind him. 

Meanwhile, if he learns discipline and draws walks, it makes sense to hit him ahead of light hitters like Eaton and Madrigal, where if he steals second, he can score on their singles. If he's hitting ahead of Moncada and Abreu, you are more concerned about running into outs and would be less aggressive on the bases. 

In addition, with Robert hitting 7th as the last big power bat in the lineup, it takes advantage of the two OBP guys ahead of him - Grandal and Vaughn/Collins - who have no speed but will score on Robert's HRs. 

So - Robert 7, not Vaughn, because Robert can run and steal second off a walk or single, while Vaughn cannot. Singles by Eaton or Madrigal can then score Robert where they wouldn't score Vaughn. Vaughn also likely to have a higher OBP than Robert, making more use of Robert's power to drive him in from any base. 

[pcq]

49 minutes ago, VAfan said:

I think Robert will eventually move up in the lineup, but you have to assume that he'll start the year somewhere around where he finished. He showed power but struck out way too much. Pitchers won't throw him anything to hit until he shows plate discipline. It won't matter who is hitting behind him. 

Meanwhile, if he learns discipline and draws walks, it makes sense to hit him ahead of light hitters like Eaton and Madrigal, where if he steals second, he can score on their singles. If he's hitting ahead of Moncada and Abreu, you are more concerned about running into outs and would be less aggressive on the bases. 

In addition, with Robert hitting 7th as the last big power bat in the lineup, it takes advantage of the two OBP guys ahead of him - Grandal and Vaughn/Collins - who have no speed but will score on Robert's HRs. 

So - Robert 7, not Vaughn, because Robert can run and steal second off a walk or single, while Vaughn cannot. Singles by Eaton or Madrigal can then score Robert where they wouldn't score Vaughn. Vaughn also likely to have a higher OBP than Robert, making more use of Robert's power to drive him in from any base. 

What I saw was Robert getting nudged off the plate which reduced his contact on outer pitches. 

[tray]

so, if Vaughn is not  what people expect him to be (a rookie that comes up and takes over the DH spot against RH and LH starters) 

that might be when musical chairs begin:

Tim Anderson
Yoan Moncada
Jose Abreu

Eloy Jiminez
Grandal
Luis Robert

(DH)?

Madrigal
Eaton

If we are depending on Vaughn to be a full time DH that would put a lot of pressure on him as  a rookie.

In 2019 at Kannapolis and Winston Salem Vaughn hit .252  with 5 HR in 190ABs....not exactly dominating Minor league pitching.

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by tray

[vilehoopster]

Glad that someone started this topic, very interesting.

So here's my two-cents worth. 

First of all, Anderson pretty much has to lead off and Abreu has to bat 3rd. Both of them like being where they have been and both are huge leaders (probably the two biggest leaders) on the team. TLR all but has to bat them there. If he doesn't, I strongly believe it would be a big first step to losing the clubhouse. Plus they're both great there. I think Anderson is pretty much an ideal lead off man. He gets on base; charges the lineup with excitement and disrupts the other team; you want him getting as many bats as possible. Abreu is great batting 3rd. He is officially a great RBI guy; no longer in dispute. 

So here's my line up for next year. 

1- Anderson

2 - Madrigal - high batting average - good bat control for hit and run or can take pitches for Tim to steal and still not strike out - will get on base that can be knocked in 

3 - Abreu

4 - Moncada - I don't think he will start here, but I believe he will be so overpowering that he has to be moved here, smashing doubles and homers. I also, think he will be top- three in MVP voting this fall

5. Eloy - It's gotta be him

6. Robert - he won't start here, but will soon move ahead of Grandal to bat 6th -- look at the murderers row of Abreu, Moncada, Eloy, and Robert (who will explode in his 2nd year)

7. Grandal

8. DH -- Vaugh -- He will give us about .275 average and between 15 & 20 homers

9. Eaton/ Engel

That's my prediction, and I'm sticking to it. Wow, is this gonna be a fun lineup to watch. Can't wait. 

Edited February 16, 2021 by vilehoopster
misspelling

[knightni]

April/May

Anderson - SS

Eaton - RF/DH

Abreu - 1B

Jimenez - LF/DH

Moncada - 3B

Grandal - C

Robert - CF

Madrigal - 2B

Engel - LF/RF

 

June and after

Anderson - SS

Eaton - RF

Abreu - 1B/DH

Jimenez - LF

Moncada - 3B

Grandal - C

Robert - CF

Vaughn - DH/1B

Madrigal - 2B

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Pre-Vaughn

1. Anderson SS

2. Moncada 3B

3. Abreu 1B

4. Eloy LF/DH (DH against lefties, Engel in OF)

5. Grandal C

6. Robert CF

7. Collins/Leury/Engel - depending on matchup. and use this spot as rotating DH with the regulars.

8. Eaton RF

9. Madrigal 2B

W/ Vaughn

1. Anderson SS

2. Moncada 3B

3. Abreu 1B/DH

4. Eloy LF

5. Grandal C

6. Robert CF

7. Vaughn DH/1B

8. Eaton RF

9. Madrigal 2B

Edited February 16, 2021 by manbearpuig

[VAfan]

5 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

Glad that someone started this topic, very interesting.

So here's my two-cents worth. 

First of all, Anderson pretty much has to lead off and Abreu has to bat 3rd. Both of them like being where they have been and both are huge leaders (probably the two biggest leaders) on the team. TLR all but has to bat them there. If he doesn't, I strongly believe it would be a big first step to losing the clubhouse. Plus they're both great there. I think Anderson is pretty much an ideal lead off man. He gets on base; charges the lineup with excitement and disrupts the other team; you want him getting as many bats as possible. Abreu is great batting 3rd. He is officially a great RBI guy; no longer in dispute. 

So here's my line up for next year. 

1- Anderson

2 - Madrigal - high batting average - good bat control for hit and run or can take pitches for Tim to steal and still not strike out - will get on base that can be knocked in 

3 - Abreu

4 - Moncada - I don't think he will start here, but I believe he will be so overpowering that he has to be moved here, smashing doubles and homers. I also, think he will be top- three in MVP voting this fall

5. Eloy - It's gotta be him

6. Robert - he won't start here, but will soon move ahead of Grandal to bat 6th -- look at the murderers row of Abreu, Moncada, Eloy, and Robert (who will explode in his 2nd year)

7. Grandal

8. DH -- Vaugh -- He will give us about .275 average and between 15 & 20 homers

9. Eaton/ Engel

That's my prediction, and I'm sticking to it. Wow, is this gonna be a fun lineup to watch. Can't wait. 

A couple things I thought of in reaction.

Abreu didn't bat 3rd all the time last year. Grandal hit ahead of him a fair amount. 37 games in the 3rd spot. 23 games in 4th. 

Anderson did lead off when he was healthy. Agreed about him.

Madrigal is too light of a hitter to waste all those extra ABs on, especially if Moncada is the monster you think he'll be. The #2 spot is no longer a place for dink and dunk hitters if you can mash. Much better to see Moncada's doubles and HRs driving in Tim right away instead of trying to steal, hit and run, etc. Plus, putting Anderson, Madrigal, and Abreu together is to RH heavy.  Madrigal is best in the 9 hole to turn over the lineup, hit and run with Eaton, be a second lead off guy ahead of Anderson, etc. 

Lastly, it will be a fun lineup to watch no matter what order TLR has them hitting.