Only JR knew of new TLR DUI upon interview and hire

[Texsox]

Just now, chitownsportsfan said:

Que sera sera.

Definitely better than anything in the past 10 years when we had fewer wins than 27 other teams. 

[chitownsportsfan]

17 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Definitely better than anything in the past 10 years when we had fewer wins than 27 other teams. 

Dude I just smoked a blunt and I'm dying over here.  You crack me up.  Def fun to engage someone that likes to be subtle with it as they drive the knife in.

What's done is done. Guilt and regret about the past are not helpful emotions.  We're moving on to 2021.  Rick Hahn has built or stumbled onto a monster.  Fangraphs will confirm my thinking when Sox are projected for an AL Central winning 92 wins in a few weeks.

Edited February 20, 2021 by chitownsportsfan

[ron883]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

This reminds me of buying a car and having your friendly sales person who is "on your side" take your offer and fight the sales manager. Those three are thick as thieves. 

 

[Texsox]

8 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Dude I just smoked a blunt and I'm dying over here.  You crack me up.  Def fun to engage someone that likes to be subtle with it as they drive the knife in.

What's done is done. Guilt and regret about the past are not helpful emotions.  We're moving on to 2021.  Rich Hahn has built or stumbled onto a monster.  Fangraphs will confirm my thinking when Sox are projected for a AL Central winning 92 wins in a few weeks.

I'm just happy to have electricity for 24 hours straight. I restocked my tequila, picked up some IPAs, and learned our largest contract in team history is the smallest contract of any MLB team largest contract. 

Fuck,  wait,  I don't want to be a buzz kill. Jose will be even better this year,  Grandal can play 150 games,  a 5th star will appear like the blessed virgin Mary, Vaughn will live up to his potential,  and Tony will learn how to use the Uber app. 

 

[ron883]

32 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Bernstein and Rahimi tried to unpack the timeline via their CSI segment using audio from the three involved in this week's story who spoke to the media since Bob's story broke: 

https://www.radio.com/670thescore/podcasts/bernstein-rahimi-show-65/bernstein-rahimi-csi-white-sox-hour-1-357325382

• 9:00: Hahn's indignant response to Danny Parkin's question regarding the DUI disclosure timeline reported earlier in the day by Nightengale.
• 11:20: Bob Nightengale's comments and at times backtracking from his article.
• 18:30: Tony La Russa's bizarre analogy of driving a car into a ditch. (Seriously WTF).
• 20:30: Tony's response to who knew what and when, and how he has and will approach his team "family". These comments were the most sincere among all clips, with only one major omission (Tony said he spoke with Kenny and Hahn "after they knew", but did not disclose if this was before or after October 29).

Setting aside the numerous problems with the hire, the most frustrating aspect of all this is the fact that it seems intentional for the Sox to intentionally screw up and piss off their fans, when the smarter and easier path would be just to do the right thing. They could have hired several legitimate quality managers meeting Hahn's proposed criteria if they felt they needed to move on from the manager they just extended and led the team to an unexpected .583 record with 2 starting pitchers and Everyday Cordero.

All the talk this off-season and spring training would be on excitement for the upcoming season and beyond. They created this mess, their stonewalling and Jerry's continued leaks to Bob Nigtengale (seriously, just STFU already) have created new issues now four months after the hire, and nobody is happy. The only thing keeping many fans going are watching the positive changes with the Bulls after Jerry ceased day to day control, and his crony hires from decades ago were shown the door, replaced by a competent, professional FO and head coach.

 

I can't even listen to Bernstein now a days. It's a shame. I used to love B&B. He is awful now.

Edited February 20, 2021 by ron883

[IWokeUpLikeThis]

On 2/17/2021 at 3:40 PM, SoCalChiSox said:

Ofcourse JR wouldn't share it with his senior staff. He knew from the start they would resist TLR just on the merits even apart from the DUI so if they learned about it, RH or KW would likely leak to the press in order to create a PR storm that would have torpedoed the hiring. Obviously, JR did not want to get out maneuvered so he no doubt had to keep it to himself.

And we will look back at this one day as the best thing Jerry Reinsdorf’s ever done. Jerry withholding this intel from RH/KW so they couldn’t torpedo it may have been a World Series-winning move. 

[GradMc]

The best thing that can happen to the CWS is to somehow get passed the highly loaded LAD and win the 2021 WS.

Reinsdorf and TLR can then ride into sunset on top.

I was really hoping Reinsdorf would do that after the 2005 parade.

Unfortunately, no such luck.

[SCCWS]

7 hours ago, IWokeUpLikeThis said:

And we will look back at this one day as the best thing Jerry Reinsdorf’s ever done. Jerry withholding this intel from RH/KW so they couldn’t torpedo it may have been a World Series-winning move. 

Maybe Jerry didn't really withhold the info from RH/KW.  Maybe TLR told JR and by the time their discussion ended JR had already forgot what Tony told him. Remember JR is turning 85 next week. 

[MeanJoeCrede]

On 2/19/2021 at 3:33 PM, southsider2k5 said:

I  mean the biggest problem besides hiring a two time felon and trusting him not to be a felon again, is the Sox have totally gamed the fans on this topic.  

While I tend to agree with the general sentiments you mentioned, LaRussa IS NOT a felon, not one time or two times. Hurts the credibility of your argument when you are being disingenuous while slamming the organization for their lack of honesty and openess in the hiring process.

[Dick Allen]

What is wild with me is JR has never thought he had to get the most decorated guy available to manage or coach his teams until now. The Sox after LaRussa had journeyman managers in Fregosi and Torborg, then went with first timers Lamont, Bevington, Manuel, Guillen, Ventura before returning to a journeyman in Renteria.

The guys he hired with the Bulls were first timer Collins, first time NBA Jackson, first time NBA Floyd, first time Cartwright, journeyman Skiles, first timer Del Negro, first timer Thibs, first time NBA Hoiberg, first time and last time Boylen, before hiring his most decorated in Donovan.

Why is it through all that time there was never a must have proven guy that needed to be hired, but suddenly, now there is? 
 

I bet Tony is making a lot of money. Probably a lot more than they would have had to pay anyone else. 
 

I was old enough to understand things when Tony was here before. It wasn’t like everyone thought they were a witness baseball genius and were horrified when Hawk sent him packing. It was a long time coming. Before Hawk was even broadcasting Sox games let alone being the GM. 

Tony landed on his feet with a great Oakland roster that should have won more than once. He parlayed that when the A’s were headed down to St. Louis which was probably the best run organization in baseball.  The A’s got better after he left. Tony won twice with the Cardinals. Once when the team won the division with 83 wins, a total fluke. And his final season as a wildcard. It is a lot harder to win as a wildcard now than it was then. The Cardinals also won the division 3 of the next 4 years after Tony left. He doesn’t seem like a guy that is going to get you multiple championships on his managing alone. 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Dick Allen

[NWINFan]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

What is wild with me is JR has never thought he had to get the most decorated guy available to manage or coach his teams until now. The Sox after LaRussa had journeyman managers in Fregosi and Torborg, then went with first timers Lamont, Bevington, Manuel, Guillen, Ventura before returning to a journeyman in Renteria.

The guys he hired with the Bulls were first timer Collins, first time NBA Jackson, first time NBA Floyd, first time Cartwright, journeyman Skiles, first timer Del Negro, first timer Thibs, first time NBA Hoiberg, first time and last time Boylen, before hiring his most decorated in Donovan.

Why is it through all that time there was never a must have proven guy that needed to be hired, but suddenly, now there is? 

These are very good observations, and they are reflective of why fans feel anxious about this hire. Yes, LaRussa has his track record, but he is 75 years-old, really has nothing left to prove, and from a logical viewpoint, should not want the hassles of being a major league baseball manager at this point of his life. Considering all of this, LaRussa should have been the last consideration; instead he was the only one.

Jerry Reinsdorf is known as person who doesn't like to fire people. As a professional who held a mid-management position, and as one who never fired someone even though on one occasion, I should have, I understand how he feels. But LaRussa more than landed on his feet, and baseball men know that a manager's job is far from long-lasting. There are ways that Reinsdorf could have made amends without doing this.

In an earlier post, I asked why anyone would think that LaRussa would be the right man to manage this particular team at this time. I haven't received an answer.

[tray]

In an earlier post, I asked why anyone would think that LaRussa would be the right man to manage this particular team at this time. I haven't received an answer.

The answer depends on who you ask.  I would not listen to Jeff Passan, a cub fan.
Ozzie Guillen: "The best free agent the White Sox have (signed) in a while. And the best coach and the best person off the field that they’ve hired in 30 years is Tony La Russa, including myself," Ozzie Guillén said on the most recent edition of the White Sox Talk Podcast. "That’s my opinion. If people don’t like it, they don’t put food on my table." Three World Series titles, six pennants and 2,728 wins, the third most in major league history.

James McCann: “I think Tony La Russa is a good hire,” McCann said on the White Sox Talk Podcast. “I’ve seen people maybe think it was an interesting hire based on Rick Hahn’s comments based on what they're looking for, but I truly believe that Tony is going to be a phenomenal fit for that team.”

Matt Vasgersian and Harold Reynolds on Hot Stove

Listen to Harold Reynolds comments

Other than Oz, I don't recall any White Sox Manager that maintained fan favorability for too long, but that is not and should never be a criteria.

Sox fans stood silent for the most part during the Robin Ventura malaise and failed to blame him or Rick Hahn  for  the LaRoach fiasco or the Chris Sale and Adam Eaton rebellion.

LaRussa would never tolerate what Ventura and Hahn put up with in the club house. Players are going to respect him .

As far as the fans, they will do what they always do and did to Renteria - second guess everything and call for his head on a platter after any loss or after substituting a pitcher that gives up runs.

LaRussa will succeed or fail based on his performance, just like any other Manager. Fans will blame thge Manager for every bad move, like they always do.

If anybody thinks that a second DUI at appx. 75 years old, ten years after the first one at appx. 65 means he should not be given a second chance, OK, but  keep some perspective on this.  A baseball manager is not entrusted with  peoples' health safety and welfare. It is a fucking game.

LaRussa proved a lot to JR in 1983 with a tremendous , exhilarating run  after a slow start to the season. TLaR  became JR's friend and confidant in ensuing years. Trust and loyalty play big with a lot of business owners, They are absolute requirements for Jerry Reinsdorf and for good reason. You live and learn and JR has done quite a bit of both.

 I think JR lost confidence in Hahn after the LaRoach fiasco and trading Tatis Jr. so it would not surprise me to see JR would consider bringing Ozzie back if LaRussa does not work out.

Hopefully at some point. some of you will refocus on the game.

 

 

 

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, NWINFan said:

These are very good observations, and they are reflective of why fans feel anxious about this hire. Yes, LaRussa has his track record, but he is 75 years-old, really has nothing left to prove, and from a logical viewpoint, should not want the hassles of being a major league baseball manager at this point of his life. Considering all of this, LaRussa should have been the last consideration; instead he was the only one.

Jerry Reinsdorf is known as person who doesn't like to fire people. As a professional who held a mid-management position, and as one who never fired someone even though on one occasion, I should have, I understand how he feels. But LaRussa more than landed on his feet, and baseball men know that a manager's job is far from long-lasting. There are ways that Reinsdorf could have made amends without doing this.

In an earlier post, I asked why anyone would think that LaRussa would be the right man to manage this particular team at this time. I haven't received an answer.

I'd argue that you have at this point, nobody thinks this beyond a few crony MLB paid media, and a few apologists, not even Jerry. 

Jerry explicitly stated Tony has no business managing less than a year ago, that he is too old to relate to the modern young athlete. Jerry, who omitted to his "White Sox family" the fact that Tony's drunk ass had yet another DUI arrest, is the only asshole on Earth who would consider Tony La Russa at age 76 as a legitimate managerial candidate. La Russa is just the latest in inexplicable four decades of crony hires and fires. The White Sox will remain dysfunctional like the Bulls until Jerry is dead or incapacitated and gone.

La Russa's White Sox teams were as asleep at the wheel as Tony is after "1 or 2 glasses of wine". The Orioles rookie manager pwned Tony's ass in the ALCS, and Tony's teams White Sox teams sucked before and since. His last brilliant move was putting "legit hall of famer" Carlton Fisk in left field.

Tony admitted he wouldn't give a thought about accepting Jerry's ridiculous job offer if he had to give up his get out of DUI jail HOF person / ring. Tony's now the second manager of the past three not fully committed including Ventura. Ricky, the other one, was just extended 60 games prior, led the White Sox to their best winning percentage in decades, one DUI guy will likely not match. Ricky was smeared by Reinsdorf's paid for hacks in the process, and dispatched because of the good ole' boy network.

It's sad, it's disgraceful, it will end poorly, hopefully without life endangering injuries to adults or children like the Chief's drunken crony coach hire who rammed into a car filled with children on the eve of the Super Bowl, after which the head coach and entire team were embarrassed after the huge distraction earlier this month.

https://www.tmz.com/2021/02/05/britt-reid-andy-reid-car-crash-kansas-city-chiefs-super-bowl/

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by South Side Hit Men

[SonofaRoache]

10 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

What is wild with me is JR has never thought he had to get the most decorated guy available to manage or coach his teams until now. The Sox after LaRussa had journeyman managers in Fregosi and Torborg, then went with first timers Lamont, Bevington, Manuel, Guillen, Ventura before returning to a journeyman in Renteria.

The guys he hired with the Bulls were first timer Collins, first time NBA Jackson, first time NBA Floyd, first time Cartwright, journeyman Skiles, first timer Del Negro, first timer Thibs, first time NBA Hoiberg, first time and last time Boylen, before hiring his most decorated in Donovan.

Why is it through all that time there was never a must have proven guy that needed to be hired, but suddenly, now there is? 
 

I bet Tony is making a lot of money. Probably a lot more than they would have had to pay anyone else. 
 

I was old enough to understand things when Tony was here before. It wasn’t like everyone thought they were a witness baseball genius and were horrified when Hawk sent him packing. It was a long time coming. Before Hawk was even broadcasting Sox games let alone being the GM. 

Tony landed on his feet with a great Oakland roster that should have won more than once. He parlayed that when the A’s were headed down to St. Louis which was probably the best run organization in baseball.  The A’s got better after he left. Tony won twice with the Cardinals. Once when the team won the division with 83 wins, a total fluke. And his final season as a wildcard. It is a lot harder to win as a wildcard now than it was then. The Cardinals also won the division 3 of the next 4 years after Tony left. He doesn’t seem like a guy that is going to get you multiple championships on his managing alone. 

How many World Series appearances has TLR made?

How many Championship Series appearances has he made?

How many manger of the year awards has he won? 

How many division titles has he won?

The odds are that no manager will do that here. It is a very difficult thing to do. All you can ask for is having a chance to win a WS. And TLR's teams more often than not have a chance. 

Edited February 22, 2021 by SonofaRoache

[Dick Allen]

17 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

How many World Series approaches has TLR made?

How many Championship Series appearances has he made?

How many manger of the year awards has he won? 

How many division titles has he won?

The odds are that no manager will do that here. It is a very difficult thing to do. All you can ask for is having a chance to win a WS. And TLR's teams more often than not have a chance. 

 

On 2/20/2021 at 9:06 AM, StrangeSox said:

The Eastern Interconnect already exists. Because the electricity crosses state lines, all operators are subject to FERC/NERC regulations to ensure reliability. This includes everything from grid design and operation requirements to cyber and physical security requirements. The larger eastern and western interconnects are already broken down into more regional groups like WEC that are subject to FERC still but form working groups among regional partners that more directly impact each other.

 

Texas went their own way to evade federal regulation. That was the whole point, and something they've long bragged about.

This is the result.

 

How many times were his teams favored to make the postseason? He is the product of great rosters. I am not going to tell you the Sox are going to lose 90 games because of him. That would be BS. But what wouldn't be BS is to say only once during his managerial career has his team dominated the regular seaon and won the WS.  33 seasons. To think he will do that here at 76 years old, 10 years out of the dugout,, doesn't  seem right.  I hope it does.. As much as I dislike the hire and the person,, I want him to succeed.. When he left teams, they didn't get worse. The Sox were better under Fredonia. Oakland got better. The Cards won their division 3 of the next 4 years.

 

This isn't the first time the Sox have brought an ex manager back to their dugout after years off the field and in front offices. Bill Veeck brought back Paul Richards to manage in 1976 at age 68, 15 years after his last managerial job. That team was awful,  and it wasn't Richards fault. But he was an old 68, fell asleep in the dugout several times and lasted one season.

[SonofaRoache]

54 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

 

How many times were his teams favored to make the postseason? He is the product of great rosters. I am not going to tell you the Sox are going to lose 90 games because of him. That would be BS. But what wouldn't be BS is to say only once during his managerial career has his team dominated the regular seaon and won the WS.  33 seasons. To think he will do that here at 76 years old, 10 years out of the dugout,, doesn't  seem right.  I hope it does.. As much as I dislike the hire and the person,, I want him to succeed.. When he left teams, they didn't get worse. The Sox were better under Fredonia. Oakland got better. The Cards won their division 3 of the next 4 years.

 

This isn't the first time the Sox have brought an ex manager back to their dugout after years off the field and in front offices. Bill Veeck brought back Paul Richards to manage in 1976 at age 68, 15 years after his last managerial job. That team was awful,  and it wasn't Richards fault. But he was an old 68, fell asleep in the dugout several times and lasted one season.

Managers need talent to win for sure. But TLR has advanced many teams in the post season regardless of their in season success. We made the playoffs with 88 wins in 2008 and would have gladly taken a title that year. When I look at a manager I want to know if he can take a talented roster into the playoffs and advance while in them. TLR has proven he can do that. Now, I do understand the concerns about the layoff and his personality. But my response was to questioning his potential success because of his WS victories and not the rest of the picture. 

[NWINFan]

4 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

 

How many times were his teams favored to make the postseason? He is the product of great rosters. I am not going to tell you the Sox are going to lose 90 games because of him. That would be BS. But what wouldn't be BS is to say only once during his managerial career has his team dominated the regular seaon and won the WS.  33 seasons. To think he will do that here at 76 years old, 10 years out of the dugout,, doesn't  seem right.  I hope it does.. As much as I dislike the hire and the person,, I want him to succeed.. When he left teams, they didn't get worse. The Sox were better under Fredonia. Oakland got better. The Cards won their division 3 of the next 4 years.

 

This isn't the first time the Sox have brought an ex manager back to their dugout after years off the field and in front offices. Bill Veeck brought back Paul Richards to manage in 1976 at age 68, 15 years after his last managerial job. That team was awful,  and it wasn't Richards fault. But he was an old 68, fell asleep in the dugout several times and lasted one season.

The Paul Richards hire was a disaster. Richards stopped taking the lineup cards to home plate, and one time a player noticed he had no third baseman in the lineup. The 1976 team was not good, but it also lost 15 out of its last 16, and looked like a bunch of guys who had plainly given up. Paul Richards wasn' t the only one going to sleep. Later, the Veecks said RIchards was nothing but a caretaking manager, and it showed. Bill Veeck lashed out at a Sun-Times reporter who wrote the truth about the situation, but that didn't change how bad the team looked. Last place was last place.

This doesn' t mean that LaRussa will be anywhere this bad. Maybe, as one poster said, he won't put up with an undisciplined team or quitters. But here is the main question: The White Sox are a young team with raw talent and great potential. Can LaRussa and his staff help these players turn into smart ball players who do the professional things that turn them into real winners? 

 

[tray]

1 hour ago, NWINFan said:

 But here is the main question: The White Sox are a young team with raw talent and great potential. Can LaRussa and his staff help these players turn into smart ball players who do the professional things that turn them into real winners?  

 

Maybe the fact that JR and TLaR want to and need to win this year or next  is just what  this group of players needs.

No more screwing around.  Sox players now have a sense of urgency and a renewed focus knowing that management and fans have the highest expectations. The bar has been set...at the top. 

My question is this - Will Sox fans give Sox ownership and management their full support to start the seasin, or are they going to b****  like disgruntled cub fans and like the most ardent critics from sports media. like Passan  Bernstein, et al. ?  

Everything we read about from Glendale appears to be going well thus far. Please men, at minimum, relax, enjoy this thing as it unfolds and try to reserve judgment on players, management and ownership. There will be a time for that, and a place for that (soxtalk) but it isn't right now. 

 

[SonofaRoache]

47 minutes ago, tray said:

Maybe the fact that JR and TLaR want to and need to win this year or next  is just what  this group of players needs.

No more screwing around.  Sox players now have a sense of urgency and a renewed focus knowing that management and fans have the highest expectations. The bar has been set...at the top. 

My question is this - Will Sox fans give Sox ownership and management their full support to start the seasin, or are they going to b****  like disgruntled cub fans and like the most ardent critics from sports media. like Passan  Bernstein, et al. ?  

Everything we read about from Glendale appears to be going well thus far. Please men, at minimum, relax, enjoy this thing as it unfolds and try to reserve judgment on players, management and ownership. There will be a time for that, and a place for that (soxtalk) but it isn't right now. 

 

Exactly. At this point I think people are mad because it is fashionable to be disgruntled. TLR is here and the roster is what it is. I wasn't completely happy with things but all I, or anyone other fan can do is let it play out. Being upset even before ST starts is a waste of time. There will be plenty of time to be pissed if things fail. 

[ShoeLessRob]

Was the first DUI a felony or misdemeanor? 

[southsider2k5]

3 hours ago, tray said:

Maybe the fact that JR and TLaR want to and need to win this year or next  is just what  this group of players needs.

No more screwing around.  Sox players now have a sense of urgency and a renewed focus knowing that management and fans have the highest expectations. The bar has been set...at the top. 

My question is this - Will Sox fans give Sox ownership and management their full support to start the seasin, or are they going to b****  like disgruntled cub fans and like the most ardent critics from sports media. like Passan  Bernstein, et al. ?  

Everything we read about from Glendale appears to be going well thus far. Please men, at minimum, relax, enjoy this thing as it unfolds and try to reserve judgment on players, management and ownership. There will be a time for that, and a place for that (soxtalk) but it isn't right now. 

 

Because posts like this just settle everything down... instead you turn threads into more back and forths on the topic.  If you want it to go away,  quit responding to it! Take your own advice, quit acting like a pretentious preacher  and relax.  These posts make it 10 times worse and piss people off all over again.

[NWINFan]

14 hours ago, tray said:

Maybe the fact that JR and TLaR want to and need to win this year or next  is just what  this group of players needs.

No more screwing around.  Sox players now have a sense of urgency and a renewed focus knowing that management and fans have the highest expectations. The bar has been set...at the top. 

My question is this - Will Sox fans give Sox ownership and management their full support to start the seasin, or are they going to b****  like disgruntled cub fans and like the most ardent critics from sports media. like Passan  Bernstein, et al. ?  

Everything we read about from Glendale appears to be going well thus far. Please men, at minimum, relax, enjoy this thing as it unfolds and try to reserve judgment on players, management and ownership. There will be a time for that, and a place for that (soxtalk) but it isn't right now. 

 

Yes, expectations are high, but I don't know what that has to do with LaRussa. As I have said in other posts, LaRussa may work out. But if there was a sense of urgency, the front office would have interviewed at least a handful of candidates before making a decision.  This bar has been set at the top - by fans. We now want and expect winning. I don't know where the organization sets the bar.

[ThirdGen]

13 hours ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Was the first DUI a felony or misdemeanor? 

According to newpaper reports he pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor.   He has never been convicted of a felony.

La Russa: 'I regret' incident - Sun Sentinel (sun-sentinel.com)

If you need to lie to make a point, the point is probably invalid.

[35thstreetswarm]

Tony LaRussa is not a felon.  This is not open to debate.  Next.

[Balta1701]

55 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

Tony LaRussa is not a felon.  This is not open to debate.  Next.

DUIs where the offender falls asleep at the wheel or where he is involved in a collision could be charged as a felony if the prosecutor decided to do so. Felony DUI could also be decided based on BAC. Furthermore, there are some states where there is no time limit, if you get a second DUI it could well be charged as a felony, Arizona is not one of these. In fact, I will guarantee you there are people in this country who have served months in jail for doing things exactly like Tony LaRussa and who were then charged with a felony.

He is a rich, well represented white guy, and so your statement that he is not a felon is tantamount to a statement “he’s rich and white, this is not open to debate. Next”