caulfield12 Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Just now, Vulture said: I don’t get that either. Wasn’t there just a Krist Bryant case in which they ruled the Cubs acted within terms of CBA agreement? Service time manipulation is built into system and has been for decades. He described standard operating procedure of mlb teams that has been upheld repeatedly over the years Yes, but you can't openly admit you're doing it...which the Cubs were smart enough to follow the party line about players needing "finishing touches" or working on XYZ weakness before they're finally ready to be recalled. There's never been a standard, nor will there ever be, about how to define "major league ready." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: Kyle Seager is their equivalent of Paul Konerko or more recently Abreu. Calling him out as "overpaid" was a fire-able offense. You can't fucking alienate your fanbase like that. Imagine if JR called Jose Abreu overpaid. Even if he fucking is, you sure as shit don't say it in public. Maybe but headlines say he resigned over bigoted comments. The only one I’ve found actually quoted is the one about paying for the translator. Edited February 23, 2021 by Vulture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Vulture said: Maybe but headlines say he was fired for bigoted comments. The only one I’ve found actually quoted is the one about paying for the translator. He's fired (well resigned) for being a dumbass. Were his comments "bigoted"? Not in my opinion but it's hard to overstate how important the Japanese pipeline and fanbase is to Seattle. It would be like the White Sox talking shit about their Cuban players. It might be bigoted, might no be -- but even worse it's taking future dollars and potential future players out of the club. Edited February 23, 2021 by chitownsportsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 Interesting that the Mariners are considered a step up for Kenny or Rick in the eyes of Sox fans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 58 minutes ago, Texsox said: Interesting that the Mariners are considered a step up for Kenny or Rick in the eyes of Sox fans. I've said it for years: The Mariners are the worse version of the Sox. They share a lot of similarities in management stinginess and FO performance over the last decade. But the Mariners are going to win 75 games this year. The Sox are going to win more, probably quite a few more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 1 hour ago, caulfield12 said: Yes, but you can't openly admit you're doing it...which the Cubs were smart enough to follow the party line about players needing "finishing touches" or working on XYZ weakness before they're finally ready to be recalled. There's never been a standard, nor will there ever be, about how to define "major league ready." So they have an rule agreed upon through the deliberation of collective bargaining that governs service time, but a guy admitting to operating according to that rule like everybody else does “can’t be done.” Sounds slightly Orwellian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 12 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: I've said it for years: The Mariners are the worse version of the Sox. They share a lot of similarities in management stinginess and FO performance over the last decade. But the Mariners are going to win 75 games this year. The Sox are going to win more, probably quite a few more. The M's gave Cano a $240M contract so they can't hold a candle to the Sox in terms of being cheap. The Sox largest contract in team history is among the likes of Cleveland, Kansas City et al. That's just unacceptable from a team operating in the 3rd largest market in the country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said: He's fired (well resigned) for being a dumbass. Were his comments "bigoted"? Not in my opinion but it's hard to overstate how important the Japanese pipeline and fanbase is to Seattle. It would be like the White Sox talking shit about their Cuban players. It might be bigoted, might no be -- but even worse it's taking future dollars and potential future players out of the club. When you're specifically going after at least two foreigners (one a Latin American pitcher, the other Iwakuma) for their English proficiency, or lack thereof, at best you're coming off as "tone deaf," at worst, ignorant/racist/____________ (fill in the blank with the appropriate adjective.) Not only that, but being upset about $75,000 in Seattle for an interpreter when the team has wasted millions and millions of dollars in the last 15+ years is a penny-wise, pound-foolish pettiness. It also has a bit of that "if you come to the US, you must speak 'Merican overtone to it. Just imagine how an American working for an MNC in Tokyo would react if his "boss" publicly criticized him for his inability to speak Japanese fluently, to the point where they had to hire an interpreter. They would lose face, it simply wouldn't happen. As mentioned, it's even more infuriating because of the team's relationship with the Japanese market and Nintendo, which still owns 10% of the team. It's like a White Sox or Cubs' management person going after deep dish pizza. You just don't do it. There's nothing good that will come out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: The M's gave Cano a $240M contract so they can't hold a candle to the Sox in terms of being cheap. The Sox largest contract in team history is among the likes of Cleveland, Kansas City et al. That's just unacceptable from a team operating in the 3rd largest market in the country. The Grandal contract beats the Alex Gordon deal by ONE freakin' million, 4/$73 versus 4/$72. If you adjust for inflation, the Royals' deal was still "more expensive," technically. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: The M's gave Cano a $240M contract so they can't hold a candle to the Sox in terms of being cheap. The Sox largest contract in team history is among the likes of Cleveland, Kansas City et al. That's just unacceptable from a team operating in the 3rd largest market in the country. They are cheap. In the worst sense of the word. They are GarPax Cheap. Like they give Jabari 40 million but won't resign Bulter cheap Think of that! That's the fucking Mariners. They sign Cano, a moronic move that everybody knew at the time was moronic even if it sorta worked out (just like Jabari) and then he sucks so badly they have to (luckily) salvage what they can in a trade. And now their CEO (who is a public face out here for their shit ownership group), in a step not even JR or KW or Hahn would be so dumb as to do, disparages their main foreign pipeline, admits service time is a scam, and somehow, to fucking top it off: INSULTS A FAN LEGEND. Come on man. They are a cheap, shit franchise. Even Mariners homers would say that! Edited February 23, 2021 by chitownsportsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: They are cheap. In the worst sense of the word. They are GarPax Cheap. Like they give Jabari 40 million but won't resign Bulter cheap Think of that! That's the fucking Mariners. They sign Cano, a moronic move that everybody knew at the time was moronic even if it sorta worked out (just like Jabari) and then he sucks so badly they have to (luckily) salvage what they can in a trade. And now their CEO (who is a public face out here for their shit ownership group), in a step not even JR or KW or Hahn would be so dumb as to do, disparages their main foreign pipeline, admits service time is a scam, and somehow, to fucking top it off: INSULTS A FAN LEGEND. Come on man. They are a cheap, shit franchise. Even Mariners homers would say that! Kenny insulted Frank multiple times on his way out. Your point is? I'm not sure I wouldn't take those guys over Jerry. They signed Felix to a big deal too. When you put everything together there are very few ownership groups in baseball worse than the Sox. As a fan, if they’re gonna be cheap at least do cheap right like Tampa and Oakland. But no, not only are they cheap they’re so damn cheap they won't even spend on amateur talent. Edited February 23, 2021 by Jack Parkman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Vulture said: Maybe but headlines say he resigned over bigoted comments. The only one I’ve found actually quoted is the one about paying for the translator. What sort of racism threshold does it has to meet in your mind for it to be out of line? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 17 minutes ago, SleepyWhiteSox said: What sort of racism threshold does it has to meet in your mind for it to be out of line? Something more than complaining about paying for a translator for a guy who didn’t need one in the first place. Language isn’t a race anyway. Pretty sure there are people of every race who do and don’t speak English Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Vulture said: Something more than complaining about paying for a translator for a guy who didn’t need one in the first place. Language isn’t a race anyway. Pretty sure there are people of every race who do and don’t speak English So he didn't need a translator based on what exactly? Because the imbecile that just got fired said so? It's potentially insulting to blatantly accuse an individual who's second language is English of using a translator as a crutch they do not need, particularly someone from a country halfway around the world coming to this country in their adult years. It's quite obviously a topic that should never have been broached at all. Not sure how that's difficult for you to put together after the end result. Edited February 23, 2021 by SleepyWhiteSox . 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted February 23, 2021 Author Share Posted February 23, 2021 While I have been critical of Hahn's player acquisitions during both "competitive windows", there is nothing to indicate over Kenny or Hahn's lengthy tenure any professional issues in terms of inappropriate workplace conduct or comments with a hint of racial overtones. Kenny and Rick are also smart enough not to violate the CBA by discussing collusion (owners have already been sanctioned multiple times for previous violations) or service time manipulation. Mathers is not smart or disciplined enough to say the same on any of these fronts. Folks also should consider Mathers was bold/entitled enough to say all of this in a single short public discussion. Coupled with the documented sexual harassment and subsequent settlements, ignorant comments and actions has been his MO, not the exception, for a lengthy period of time without repercussions until this latest public outrage. Replacing Mathers was necessary, but there must be a commitment from ownership for true change over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 3 hours ago, SleepyWhiteSox said: So he didn't need a translator based on what exactly? Because the imbecile that just got fired said so? It's potentially insulting to blatantly accuse an individual who's second language is English of using a translator as a crutch they do not need, particularly someone from a country halfway around the world coming to this country in their adult years. It's quite obviously a topic that should never have been broached at all. Not sure how that's difficult for you to put together after the end result. It’s difficult to suss out when each of the half dozen articles I’ve read indicate that he made numerous bigoted comments but the only one anyone has actually quoted is the comment about the translator. So I ask what did I miss you still haven’t told me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 I like how how you set me up for that rant with your innocuous question though. That must mean you’re a good guy since you can identify bad guys so easily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 7 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said: He's fired (well resigned) for being a dumbass. Were his comments "bigoted"? Not in my opinion but it's hard to overstate how important the Japanese pipeline and fanbase is to Seattle. It would be like the White Sox talking shit about their Cuban players. It might be bigoted, might no be -- but even worse it's taking future dollars and potential future players out of the club. This. What he said was not legally prohibited but insulting a Japanese player when seattle has a strong japanese fan base that still is buying mariners merch, insulting his top prospect, insulting a long term star AND basically admitting service time manipulation is a bit much. Maybe he could have survived one of those things but saying that much BS in half an hour is a bit much and it was time for him to go especially since there were some incidents before. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 45 minutes ago, Vulture said: I like how how you set me up for that rant with your innocuous question though. That must mean you’re a good guy since you can identify bad guys so easily Good guys will ask you out on "real" dates in order to get to know you. Bad boys will tell you they don't believe in labels and then ask you over to Netflix and chill. Good guys will treat their waiters as well as they treat you. Bad boys will treat everyone like they're inferior. A good guy will tell you the truth, even when it's hard to hear. A bad boy will lie about his job, his hobbies, and his intentions. A good guy has goals for his future. A bad boy lives in the moment and doesn't care about what the future holds. A good guy knows that his personality is the most important thing. A bad boy will only care about his looks. https://love.allwomenstalk.com/how-to-tell-the-difference-between-a-good-guy-and-a-bad-boy/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said: This. What he said was not legally prohibited but insulting a Japanese player when seattle has a strong japanese fan base that still is buying mariners merch, insulting his top prospect, insulting a long term star AND basically admitting service time manipulation is a bit much. Maybe he could have survived one of those things but saying that much BS in half an hour is a bit much and it was time for him to go especially since there were some incidents before. When asked about top prospect Julio Rodríguez (#5 prospect in the system), rather than concentrating on his playing ability, Mather focused on his grasp of English. “Julio Rodríguez has got a personality bigger than all of you combined,” he said. “He is loud, his English is not tremendous.” He also repeatedly referred to catcher Luis Torrens as “Luis Torres”. https://www.radio.com/sports/mlb/ms-pres-under-fire-for-remarks-about-asian-latin-players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Good guys will ask you out on "real" dates in order to get to know you. Bad boys will tell you they don't believe in labels and then ask you over to Netflix and chill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: “Julio Rodríguez has got a personality bigger than all of you combined. He is loud, his English is not tremendous.” He also repeatedly referred to catcher Luis Torrens as “Luis Torres”. Wow. What a monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, Vulture said: Wow. What a monster. You've yet to make a valid argument or share any sane reasoning as to why he keeps publicly commenting on foreign players' English proficiency in a critical manner without even being asked to do so. It's tone deaf at best with a hint of mild racism. As a face of a multi-million dollar org, to put that out there publicly and unprovoked is very clearly not a good look, hence the firing. You just keep proving that that type of talk is still normalized by a lot of people, which nobody is arguing against because most people know it exists. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Vulture said: I like how how you set me up for that rant with your innocuous question though. That must mean you’re a good guy since you can identify bad guys so easily By the way, of course I know who the bad guy is. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 23, 2021 Share Posted February 23, 2021 It doesn't matter if you as an individual is bothered. I very large segment of their fan base was bothered. A mediocre to great franchise quickly moves to end the situation before it escalates or happens a second time. A poorly run organization will claim the owner made a decision to keep him, he deserved a third chance (paid off women he harassed) and no one else in the organization knew about it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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