Mariners president and CEO Kevin Mather's Zoom Call

[thxfrthmmrs]

I used to recommend a taco truck to my co-workers - there’s this great taco truck by the office, the guy who runs it doesn’t speak much English, but the food is great. Is that considered a racist comment in 2021? It seems based on the reactions in the first page, we have a new definition for racism now.

Now, are Mather’s comments poor taste and unfit for an executive? They sure are. Should he had been fired for his poor judgment? I would support it. But painting those comments as racist is a stretch IMO.

It may seem like I’m nitpicking here, my post is less on the decision to fire him but more on the social implications.

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

I used to recommend a taco truck to my co-workers - there’s this great taco truck by the office, the guy who runs it doesn’t speak much English, but the food is great. Is that considered a racist comment in 2021? It seems based on the reactions in the first page, we have a new definition for racism now.

Now, are Mather’s comments poor taste and unfit for an executive? They sure are. Should he had been fired for his poor judgment? I would support it. But painting those comments as racist is a stretch IMO.

It may seem like I’m nitpicking here, my post is less on the decision to fire him but more on the social implications.

Pointing out that the taco truck driver doesn't speak English well isn't bad, coming back from the truck and saying "he lives in America he should speak the language better" or something along those lines is mean and demeaning if it were to get back to him.  It tiptoes the line of racism, it has the implication.

i understand what you are saying with the social implications,  but at the same time he represented an organization that has hundreds of immigrants walk through the door every year and to say those comments were tone deaf is understating it to me.

[thxfrthmmrs]

11 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Pointing out that the taco truck driver doesn't speak English well isn't bad, coming back from the truck and saying "he lives in America he should speak the language better" or something along those lines is mean and demeaning if it were to get back to him.  It tiptoes the line of racism, it has the implication.

i understand what you are saying with the social implications,  but at the same time he represented an organization that has hundreds of immigrants walk through the door every year and to say those comments were tone deaf is understating it to me.

You can call it tone deaf, insensitive, ignorant, poor taste, etc. But calling it racism is a big leap for me, especially compared to other acts of racism going around in the society currently.

This is coming from someone who of Asian descent and had to learn English as a second language. Someone who point of my English proficiency or lack thereof isn’t nearly as offensive as mocking accent of my people or stringing together words to pretending they’re speaking an Asian language, you know the “ching chong ding dong” bit in many comedy sketches. Same goes with my taco truck example, if I go out of my way to mock the way the guy speaks, I would consider that to be racist, but that isn’t what’s happening here.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

17 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Pointing out that the taco truck driver doesn't speak English well isn't bad, coming back from the truck and saying "he lives in America he should speak the language better" or something along those lines is mean and demeaning if it were to get back to him.  It tiptoes the line of racism, it has the implication.

i understand what you are saying with the social implications,  but at the same time he represented an organization that has hundreds of immigrants walk through the door every year and to say those comments were tone deaf is understating it to me.

Let me just clarify that it's demeaning with clear racial implications whether it gets back to him or not.

And thnx is very likely not a face of a multi million dollar organization, so the potential fallout is likely not the same.

It's an interesting commentary when certain people get all up in arms now when they get called out on their bullshit, with "that's how it's always been!" used as some sort of valid excuse.

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

You can call it tone deaf, insensitive, ignorant, poor taste, etc. But calling it racism is a big leap for me, especially compared to other acts of racism going around in the society currently.

This is coming from someone who of Asian descent and had to learn English as a second language. Someone who point of my English proficiency or lack thereof isn’t nearly as offensive as mocking accent of my people or stringing together words to pretending they’re speaking an Asian language, you know the “ching chong ding dong” bit in many comedy sketches. Same goes with my taco truck example, if I go out of my way to mock the way the guy speaks, I would consider that to be racist, but that isn’t what’s happening here.

That's fair, I'm certainly in no position to tell you what should be or should not be considered racism.

I don't think there are many that believe that he should keep his job after those comments, regardless if they believe it is racism or not 

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, SleepyWhiteSox said:

Let me just clarify that it's demeaning with clear racial implications whether it gets back to him or not.

And thnx is very likely not a face of a multi million dollar organization, so the potential fallout is likely not the same.

It's an interesting commentary when certain people get all up in arms now when they get called out on their bullshit, with "that's how it's always been!" used as some sort of valid excuse.

The reason I put in "if it gets back to him" was because of Mathers broadcasting on a zoom, where it very clearly will get back to the players he referred to.  I don't want it to come off that it isn't racist if the taco truck driver never finds out.  It is, either way.

[Jose Abreu]

10 hours ago, Vulture said:

Wow. What a monster.

At the very least, it's extremely disrespectful to criticize the English speaking skills of foreign players for seemingly no reason. If you have some justification for it other than repeatedly defending it through downplaying and sarcastic concern, I'd love to hear it.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

What I see in this thread are a ton of people who have no interactions with non-American's on a frequent basis and have never sought out conversations with people from different backgrounds.

Randomly critiquing someones ability to speak English, when the USA does NOT have a native language, is disrespectful and to many of those people hurtful. Many people whose first language is not English are very self conscious about their accents, word usage, or their inability to speak as well as they wish. They are self conscious due to the attitude displayed by Mather and the likes.

Let's first start with the Japanese nonsense spewed by him. Interpreters are comfort for people whose first language may not be English and are in a spotlight. You never want to misconstrue a question or misspeak and have it blow up in your face. Additionally, eastern culture is dramatically different than western culture so having someone like you around all the time can help you assimilate much better to the foreign environment in which you're also asked to perform at the highest level.

Now for hispanics; why do you feel the need to randomly comment on their ability to speak English? Americans are simply uncultured despite being a melting pot of a country. Uncultured to a point of incredible embarrassment, but many Americans view that uncultured nonsense as a badge of honor. We're one of the only developed western nations that don't have a majority of the populace learning/speaking multiple language. Our ignorance is something that leads to frequent disrespect to those who are either trying to learn english, or who already speak some but aren't perfect. Someone asking why it's a big deal why the President of a company randomly comments on an employees ability to speak English when it's irrelevant to his success (the onus should be on the organization to help drive comfort and success, not discredit their lack of english speaking ability) completely overlooks the levels of disrespect and ridicule within that comment. Someone who doesn't understand how elitist it is to mention, in passing, his ability to speak English to the rotary club is part of the issues we have.

If you want to say it's not racist, sure, but it's absolutely discriminatory and it's offensive. It's something that these guys are self conscious about to begin with given that they were thrown into a new culture, with (in many cases) very little support system, and don't even speak the language fluently and now their boss is shaming them for that in front of a bunch of strangers.

The USA doesn't have a national language for a reason, yet when it comes to degrading those who don't speak their language the US ranks right up there with the pompous French despite not even having one. It's actually shameful that the USA doesn't teach spanish to all kids given the amount of people in the country that speak it. As someone who lives in a house with a non-native English speaker, I have seen how she's been disrespected or judged by customer service reps, coworkers, people at restaurants and strangers in public. I'm embarrassed for most who don't understand that the issue isn't that my wife has an accent, it's that millions of Americans think that's a problem or something that should be brought to peoples attention.

LOL at comparing this to some taco truck and saying the guys English isn't great. It's more like saying, I like this guys tacos even though he doesn't speak English; as if him not speaking English is a bad thing or somehow has to be overcome by incredible tacos.

Edited February 23, 2021 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

I like that Julio tried to make light of it, but this is a great indicator of how something as small as randomly discussing a players English acumen, while he's already assimilating to a new country and culture while traveling and dedicating his time to perfecting his craft, can be incredibly disrespectful, discriminatory and flat out ignorant.

[caulfield12]

Plus the guy flat out lied or just made up/embellished two stories based on clubhouse gossip apparently. Almost comes across like Hector and the food guys, showing off supposed insider knowledge to a bunch of mostly 50+ Rotarians.
 

I wonder whether Marco Gonzales feels comfortable and respected. He is the Mariners' ace, a 29-year-old whom Mather considers "very boring" because ... he doesn't throw very hard? Anyway, Mather delighted in telling a story about Gonzales "pushing [former teammate Mike Leake] into the locker" after Leake resisted team rules. The problem, a source familiar with the situation told ESPN, is that the story is untrue. While Gonzales did confront Leake, he did not lay hands on him.

I wonder whether Mitch Haniger feels comfortable and respected. As was the case with most of Mather's comments, they included compliments, and initially he spoke well of the 30-year-old who has missed the past 1½ years due to injury. After suggesting Haniger will be an All-Star this season, Mather said, "he has a little bit of a chip on his shoulder as we talk about our prospects and these young kids. He's mentioned more than once: What about me?" According to a source close to Haniger, he has not discussed his standing with regards to the coming prospects.

.....

Two years ago, the Mariners thought enough of Rodriguez's English to post a video of him speaking in it on their YouTube channel. His English sounds pretty good, and I don't imagine it has worsened since.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30949984/chicago-white-sox-star-tim-anderson-backs-new-manager-tony-la-russa-1-1-meeting     Jeff Passan commentary, you knew this slam was coming

Edited February 23, 2021 by caulfield12

[Vulture]

So I go to Japan speaking little Japanese I should expect to be described as speaking Japanese well? If they said I didn’t speak much I would consider that accurate rather than expect a national outrage to develop

[thxfrthmmrs]

5 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

What I see in this thread are a ton of people who have no interactions with non-American's on a frequent basis and have never sought out conversations with people from different backgrounds.

Randomly critiquing someones ability to speak English, when the USA does NOT have a native language, is disrespectful and to many of those people hurtful. Many people whose first language is not English are very self conscious about their accents, word usage, or their inability to speak as well as they wish. They are self conscious due to the attitude displayed by Mather and the likes.

Let's first start with the Japanese nonsense spewed by him. Interpreters are comfort for people whose first language may not be English and are in a spotlight. You never want to misconstrue a question or misspeak and have it blow up in your face. Additionally, eastern culture is dramatically different than western culture so having someone like you around all the time can help you assimilate much better to the foreign environment in which you're also asked to perform at the highest level.

Now for hispanics; why do you feel the need to randomly comment on their ability to speak English? Americans are simply uncultured despite being a melting pot of a country. Uncultured to a point of incredible embarrassment, but many Americans view that uncultured nonsense as a badge of honor. We're one of the only developed western nations that don't have a majority of the populace learning/speaking multiple language. Our ignorance is something that leads to frequent disrespect to those who are either trying to learn english, or who already speak some but aren't perfect. Someone asking why it's a big deal why the President of a company randomly comments on an employees ability to speak English when it's irrelevant to his success (the onus should be on the organization to help drive comfort and success, not discredit their lack of english speaking ability) completely overlooks the levels of disrespect and ridicule within that comment. Someone who doesn't understand how elitist it is to mention, in passing, his ability to speak English to the rotary club is part of the issues we have.

If you want to say it's not racist, sure, but it's absolutely discriminatory and it's offensive. It's something that these guys are self conscious about to begin with given that they were thrown into a new culture, with (in many cases) very little support system, and don't even speak the language fluently and now their boss is shaming them for that in front of a bunch of strangers.

The USA doesn't have a national language for a reason, yet when it comes to degrading those who don't speak their language the US ranks right up there with the pompous French despite not even having one. It's actually shameful that the USA doesn't teach spanish to all kids given the amount of people in the country that speak it. As someone who lives in a house with a non-native English speaker, I have seen how she's been disrespected or judged by customer service reps, coworkers, people at restaurants and strangers in public. I'm embarrassed for most who don't understand that the issue isn't that my wife has an accent, it's that millions of Americans think that's a problem or something that should be brought to peoples attention.

LOL at comparing this to some taco truck and saying the guys English isn't great. It's more like saying, I like this guys tacos even though he doesn't speak English; as if him not speaking English is a bad thing or somehow has to be overcome by incredible tacos.

Here we go again with Mr. Know it All. Sorry pal, in order for something to be considered racist, it needs to target a specific characteristic of a race or discriminate against one. What Mather said could be considered xenophobic, but not racist. I thought you would know the difference since you seem to know everything about anything.

[Vulture]

What if I told you in the last couple hours, actual academically certifiable racist terminology (not mere inferred implication) has been posted on this board, left unmoderated, and apparently found acceptable by members who both quoted and repeated said terminology, thereby perpetuating racist stereotypes? Will you publicly call for the denouncement of Soxtalk and the firing of the perpetrators I wonder? Surely what is good for the goose is good for the gander

[Vulture]

In fact, a quick search reveals it has been allowed to fester on this site since 2003. So can’t be considered to be a recent oversight. Ongoing pattern. For shame. I didn’t realize this place was operated and patronized by racists

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 hours ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Here we go again with Mr. Know it All. Sorry pal, in order for something to be considered racist, it needs to target a specific characteristic of a race or discriminate against one. What Mather said could be considered xenophobic, but not racist. I thought you would know the difference since you seem to know everything about anything.

I know reading comprehension and my posts has never been a strength of yours, so I'll highlight this part to help you better read it:

"If you want to say it's not racist, sure, but it's absolutely discriminatory and it's offensive."

Is that clear enough for you, now?

So thanks for again trying to call me out, when I literally said what you are now saying. Maybe if you responded to the post and not the poster you wouldn't constantly claim I said things I never said, and you wouldn't let emotions get the best of you in internet discussions.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 hours ago, Vulture said:

So I go to Japan speaking little Japanese I should expect to be described as speaking Japanese well? If they said I didn’t speak much I would consider that accurate rather than expect a national outrage to develop

It wouldn't be a characteristic that should define you in a discussion. This isn't hard to understand. Randomly pointing out a Hispanic players lack of English acumen has no place in that conversation.

Mathers history isn't a secret in the baseball world either. Please continue to defend his rhetoric though, it behooves you quite well.

[Jose Abreu]

32 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

It wouldn't be a characteristic that should define you in a discussion. This isn't hard to understand. Randomly pointing out a Hispanic players lack of English acumen has no place in that conversation.

Mathers history isn't a secret in the baseball world either. Please continue to defend his rhetoric though, it behooves you quite well.

You won't get a response to this, I tried. Just a bunch of whataboutisms that don't even address the fact that he went out of his way to make the comments for no reason

[caulfield12]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30952867/yankees-gerrit-cole-calls-mlb-service-manipulation-exposed-exec-video-blatant-not-productive

[knightni]

9 hours ago, Vulture said:

What if I told you in the last couple hours, actual academically certifiable racist terminology (not mere inferred implication) has been posted on this board, left unmoderated, and apparently found acceptable by members who both quoted and repeated said terminology, thereby perpetuating racist stereotypes? Will you publicly call for the denouncement of Soxtalk and the firing of the perpetrators I wonder? Surely what is good for the goose is good for the gander

 

9 hours ago, Vulture said:

In fact, a quick search reveals it has been allowed to fester on this site since 2003. So can’t be considered to be a recent oversight. Ongoing pattern. For shame. I didn’t realize this place was operated and patronized by racists

How about some enlightenment?

[Harold's Leg Lift]

This started a shit storm and it's long past due.  Everyone knew owners punished players for not signing team friendly extensions now the players have the proof they need thanks to this dumbass.  Dipoto aplogized to the players then went on to say the team did nothing wrong. Then what are you apologizing for, Jerry??

“Strange,’’ Kelenic said. “It was literally like someone farted in church. That is the exact expression on everybody’s face.’’

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2021/02/24/jarred-kelenic-mariners-prospect-service-time-manipulation/4568463001/

[South Side Hit Men]

8 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

This started a shit storm and it's long past due.  Everyone knew owners punished players for not signing team friendly extensions now the players have the proof they need thanks to this dumbass.  Dipoto aplogized to the players then went on to say the team did nothing wrong. Then what are you apologizing for, Jerry??

“Strange,’’ Kelenic said. “It was literally like someone farted in church. That is the exact expression on everybody’s face.’’

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2021/02/24/jarred-kelenic-mariners-prospect-service-time-manipulation/4568463001/

Quote

“I was extremely disappointed,’’ Kelenic said. “I worked extremely hard all offseason. And last year, here you have a team that is one game out of the playoffs going into the last weeks of the season. I know for a fact I could have helped that team out. Not just me, but there are other guys who could have helped that team out.

“Not to be given that opportunity was so beyond frustrating. I feel that guys should be rewarded for their play, and have the best guys on the field, especially when you talk about a team that hasn’t gone to the playoffs in 20 years, and your best prospects are just sitting there watching.’’

It’s disgraceful. Many teams are playing these games. Kudos to the Padres, Yankees and other teams who have rewarded top prospects with promotion when their ready.

[chitownsportsfan]

@Jack Parkman

Be thankful we are not Mariners fans.  They are the low rent version of the Sox.  That's hard to do.

[Harry Chappas]

4 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

It’s disgraceful. Many teams are playing these games. Kudos to the Padres, Yankees and other teams who have rewarded top prospects with promotion when their ready.

The White Sox did this with Kopech when they really should not have.   Kopech at this point in time should have zero service time. 

[Vulture]

8 hours ago, knightni said:

 

How about some enlightenment?

 

[Vulture]

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?/search/&q=Jip&search_and_or=or

https://wikidiff.com/jip/gyp

”

English

Alternative forms

* gip, jip (eye dialect spellings)

Usage notes

Because this term is often considered to derive from the problematic exonymic term Gypsy'' and represent a racist stereotype of the Romani, it may be offensive. See the usage note about ''gypsy .

Verb

(gypp)

• (pejorative, sometimes, offensive) To cheat or swindle someone of something inappropriately. 

The cab driver gypped me out of ten bucks by taking the longer route. 

You better watch out; they'll try to gyp you if you don't know what you're doing. 

Usage notes

See the notes about the noun, above.

See also

* jew down * welsh

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Vulture