I'm going to enjoy the White Sox this year

[michelangelosmonkey]

46 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Nothing about squashing my fun. I haven't expressed any real negativity here and I'm excited for the season. Frustrated with the FO but excited for the group of guys. 

I just find it incredibly hypocritical of you that you don't call out VAfan for starting the same nonsensical thread over and over because it's optimistic but you feel the need to constantly call out posters who post negative thoughts. Just my two cents. Have a good weekend. 

 

Edit: now not being blindly optimistic = pissing on threads

Being blindly optimistic though = great board contributions 

Lol you cradk me up pal. And banned myself lol. I don't post as much because of nonsense like above

I appreciate a good counter argument...I'm just not sure what is the point of being nasty about it...I give a range of potential outcomes...given the argument that Vaughn could be worse than EE.  And you don't just counter my position...you say it is ridiculous and nonsensical.   You could come back and say...let's call his upside Konerko instead of Frank...that's fair.   I think it's great when people point out that the last "can't miss" guy we had was Gordon Beckham.  It helps me frame things because I remember in GB's rookie season he put up a 2.2 WAR in his first 100 games and then 5.2 WAR his next 1000.   I think secretly we all know that any of these guys could end up being bums.   And when I start talking about 2021 with potentially Frank Thomas at first, Rod Carew at 2b, Mike Schmidt at 3b. Ken Griffey Jr in CF, Manny Ramirez in LF...you can tell me to put down the crack pipe...I probably need that occasionally....but man we are all fans of the same team...we all WANT that to happen.  Sox brothers if nothing else.  

[Rounding_Third]

1 hour ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

But I didn't...I said that was his range of outcomes...EE's .673 and FT .983.   And if you look at a lot of his attributes he is like Frank...great batters eye, great approach, natural power.   He is VERY unlikely to be that good...but I think he could be 90% as good as Frank which would be about a 5 WAR a year for 7 years.  

I am in the "Vaughn to MiLB" camp.  Have been all along.  But I accept that its his DH job to lose.  Now I will sit back and root and enjoy his potential & progress.  I hope he tears up ST and easily wins his chance.  If not, we have a bit of a DH issue but not just that.  Hoping for him, too, and what he means to an already scary lineup.   I'm confident that, at the very least, he will exceed EE's 2020 which is a very low expectation for him and I expect he will be much more than that.  I'm also confident that at the end of 2021, we'll all be able to agree that if EE's 2020 was as good as AV's 2021, we would have won the 2020 Central.  

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:

I am in the "Vaughn to MiLB" camp.  Have been all along.  But I accept that its his DH job to lose.  Now I will sit back and root and enjoy his potential & progress.  I hope he tears up ST and easily wins his chance.  If not, we have a bit of a DH issue but not just that.  Hoping for him, too, and what he means to an already scary lineup.   I'm confident that, at the very least, he will exceed EE's 2020 which is a very low expectation for him and I expect he will be much more than that.  I'm also confident that at the end of 2021, we'll all be able to agree that if EE's 2020 was as good as AV's 2021, we would have won the 2020 Central.  

You can argue just as easily that if Renteria didn’t experiment with the pen (Rodon) and Robert didn’t fall off a cliff...that 2-8 against the Indians, etc., we’d just put away the Twins and were running away then suddenly let up on the gas.

[Rounding_Third]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

You can argue just as easily that if Renteria didn’t experiment with the pen (Rodon) and Robert didn’t fall off a cliff...that 2-8 against the Indians, etc., we’d just put away the Twins and were running away then suddenly let up on the gas.

True enough.  Just making a point that AV doesn't have to do a heck of a lot to contribute to 2020 improvement.  Hope they lay off him learning other positions.  Just let him take his std DH/1B game to MLB and it's long season that he's never experienced.  Geesh, isn't that enough adjustment for him for now?

[RagahRagah]

8 hours ago, Tony said:

This right here is why everyone argues with you and thinks you’re an absolute dick...you always lean on “I see no issue with having a civil discussion that doesn’t result in name calling, it’s beneath me..” but in the majority of your posts you call some ignorant or blind if they don’t share your same viewpoint. 

The high horse game only works if you actually ride the high horse, something you’ve NEVER DONE. 

 

 

Calling someone ignorant or blind is not name calling. Thery are actually terms that have real meaning.

 I have never engaged in name calling here. Occasionally I have said something that was a bit overboard and have apologized for it.

I did once tell greg to shut up. That was merely for humor. I actually don't feel I've seen him much if at all since then, lol.

Edited February 27, 2021 by RagahRagah

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, RagahRagah said:

Calling someone ignorant or blind is not name calling. Thery are actually terms that have real meaning.

 I have never engaged in name calling here. Occasionally I have said something that was a bit overboard and have apologized for it.

I did once tell greg to shut up. That was merely for humor. I actually don't feel I've seen him much if at all since then, lol.

Picking on Greg is not humorous though.  It's more bullying than anything. It's like everyone picks on that kid so I will too because he's a character. Then the bully laughs about it.

[RagahRagah]

21 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Picking on Greg is not humorous though.  It's more bullying than anything. It's like everyone picks on that kid so I will too because he's a character. Then the bully laughs about it.

I wasn't bullying anyone, lol. And if I was then by that rationale bullying goes on rampantly in several threads on a regular basis.

There have been plenty of actual blowups on greg. I'm not going to do that.

[Vulture]

According to fantrax, the d’backs want Corbin Martin in the rotation in order to build up arm strength, because he missed last year with TJS and only pitched fifty some innings the year prior to that. Found that interesting considering that is the direct opposite of philosophy around here vis a vis Kopech, Crochet and Rodon

[Vulture]

4 hours ago, RagahRagah said:

Calling someone ignorant or blind is not name calling. Thery are actually terms that have real meaning.

Jack ass also has a meaning. It’s a type of donkey.

[NWINFan]

How did this thread begin with speculation on the 2021 White Sox season to picking on poor Greg? A little civility does go a long way, however.

[SCCWS]

On 2/26/2021 at 2:49 AM, Tony said:

Thus far, this thread is the perfect encapsulation of the hyperbole coming from both sides of White Sox fandom. And it’s exactly how we treat politics in this country right now as well. If you’re on the right, you a Qanon loving, racist idiot and if you’re on the left, you must be a socialist loving commie liberal that hates America. Of course 95% of Americans aren’t either, but that’s how the “other side” is defined because of a very small vocal minority. 

Like most things.....there is nuance to the conversation. Most Sox fans are NOT negative about the upcoming season. But being “positive” about the Sox in 2021 doesn’t mean you should ignore the very real concerns that could haunt this team. 
 

I’m very excited for White Sox baseball in 2021. If you aren’t, in my opinion I don’t really understand why you would cheer for a team. They are a young, likable bunch on the come up and should provide us a ton of memorable moments this upcoming season. I was also disappointed with how resources were managed in the off-season. I wish they spent more money, and the money that they did spend should have been used in different areas in my opinion. I don’t like the idea of the season resting on Dylan Cease turning into a solid MLB pitcher. The point is...you can feel both things!

So please...stop with the hyperbole on both sides. 

Agree. The poster is the perfect example of a fair-weather fan. He has stopped  following the team for years and now is projecting everyone as a star. In reality, some of our stars will have off years and some will be injured more than they play ( similar to most teams). But this is an excellent roster and  future additions could be a bonus. It remains to be seen how TLR will impact the team.  Spring training is a time for optimism!!!! Lets hope by the All-Star game we are still feeling good about the team.  

[poppysox]

13 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Picking on Greg is not humorous though.  It's more bullying than anything. It's like everyone picks on that kid so I will too because he's a character. Then the bully laughs about it.

I agree.  Why WS fans should want to pick on an avid WS fan just escapes me.

[ron883]

15 hours ago, RagahRagah said:

Calling someone ignorant or blind is not name calling. Thery are actually terms that have real meaning.

 I have never engaged in name calling here. Occasionally I have said something that was a bit overboard and have apologized for it.

I did once tell greg to shut up. That was merely for humor. I actually don't feel I've seen him much if at all since then, lol.

I've figured it out. You're playing the persona of a pro wrestler, one who was a delusional superiority complex and a delusional victim complex. It's a classic bit for a heel. 

[RagahRagah]

 

13 hours ago, Vulture said:

Jack ass also has a meaning. It’s a type of donkey.

Exhibit A, ladies and gentlemen. The trend is currently jumping on me, though, so no one will call you out for this.

Please tell me what word I should use in lieu of ignorant? (Spoiler: you won't answer this question)

 

2 hours ago, ron883 said:

I've figured it out. You're playing the persona of a pro wrestler, one who was a delusional superiority complex and a delusional victim complex. It's a classic bit for a heel. 

Funny how attempting to merely be reasonable can be labeled as a "complex."

Again, ignoring the poster's points and merely attacking him. I believe that might be called ad hominem. Keep distracting from the point and everyone will just forget about it. Bullshit deception tactics.

I've already owned up to some things I said being unfair. Would be nice to see the same from some of you. 

Edited February 27, 2021 by RagahRagah

[RagahRagah]

3 hours ago, poppysox said:

I agree.  Why WS fans should want to pick on an avid WS fan just escapes me.

Most ironic post of the entire thread.

(Not applying this to you, BTW)

[fathom]

3 hours ago, ron883 said:

I've figured it out. You're playing the persona of a pro wrestler, one who was a delusional superiority complex and a delusional victim complex. It's a classic bit for a heel. 

Is it Rajah, the person I used to get my wrestling rumors from?

[Wisebri224]

I actually can understand Hahn a bit more in FA now I see reports coming in. Maybe a 5th starter but honestly with the depth of the pen if that becomes an opener every other start I’m ok with that.  Cease blossoms some and if not you add mid season.  In the future you have 3 starters coming so nothing long term in SP front.

Bats same thing.  Try out Vaughn.  If it doesn’t work you make a deal.   Same with RF.  You are looking for short term answers when needed.

Get Gio extended and let’s go win this thing!

[Tony]

So awful poster aside, been thinking something Balta mentioned and the more I think about it.....the entire season comes down to two things. Health and Dylan Cease. This team is not very deep and doesn’t have a ton of reinforcements ready to replace key pieces in the lineup and rotation. The boys need to stay healthy. 

The other is Cease. We all feel fairly comfortable saying the 1-2-3 in the rotation should provide the Sox with quality production. If Cease can finally make the leap, the rotation is completely changed, and filling that 5th spot every day doesn’t seem as big of a challenge. If Cease continues his 2020 performance into 2021, you’re going to have a ton of long bullpen performances, on back to back days. So not only are you not getting good production out of the 4-5 spots in the rotation, but you’re killing another strength of your team in the bullpen and exposing them to high inning workloads. 
 

If the Sox keep their type guys on the field and Dylan Cease can become a quality ML pitcher....this team wins 95-100 games. 

[pcq]

I think the one huge mistake, and he was a natural fit was not signing Q.  That would have addressed the depth issue and Hahn should have stepped up and insisted they do so. Instead we pray for Rodon to stay healthy. But I will enjoy the show. 

[Snopek]

I wish we had one of those word cloud things for this forum. “If,” “could,” “should” and “potential” would be size 8,000 font. Great organizations recognize potential, but don’t rely on it. (Hi, Dodgers.) For a team with World Series aspirations, the criticism of and frustration with the FO is 100% warranted. 
 

That said, even though I struggle to see things through the same lens, I truly do appreciate the more optimistic posts on here. While my pessimism/realism often gets the best of me, the optimism helps center me when I teeter a little too far on the negative end of the spectrum.

 

In conclusion, holy sh*t. We have Luis Robert on our team. OUR team.

 

[DoUEvenShift]

13 minutes ago, Snopek said:

In conclusion, holy sh*t. We have Luis Robert on our team. OUR team.

 

 

[Vulture]

5 hours ago, ron883 said:

I've figured it out. You're playing the persona of a pro wrestler, one who was a delusional superiority complex and a delusional victim complex. It's a classic bit for a heel. 

You wanna wrassle me Memphis style??

[michelangelosmonkey]

1 hour ago, Snopek said:

I wish we had one of those word cloud things for this forum. “If,” “could,” “should” and “potential” would be size 8,000 font. Great organizations recognize potential, but don’t rely on it. (Hi, Dodgers.) For a team with World Series aspirations, the criticism of and frustration with the FO is 100% warranted. 
 

That said, even though I struggle to see things through the same lens, I truly do appreciate the more optimistic posts on here. While my pessimism/realism often gets the best of me, the optimism helps center me when I teeter a little too far on the negative end of the spectrum.

 

In conclusion, holy sh*t. We have Luis Robert on our team. OUR team.

 

Past criticism is fine.  I really hated the "go for it" 2014-2016 period...but I also get it...we got really lucky with how great Sale/Quintana/Abreu/Eaton were...in 2014 we had four guys that put up a combined 21 WAR...that's HALF way to the WAR you need to get to the playoffs with 4 guys...if we could just fill in around them 21 one-WAR guys but the problem was there was SO much garbage there (and yes, budget).  But as a fan,  trying to go for it in those years made sense, because...how could you not win with those four?   But credit to management that they signed those guys to good contracts, recognized the hopelessness of the hand and then went full rebuild.  Which I think has been executed beautifully...still as a fan it's been four painful rebuild years after four painful go-for-it years.  But frustration with the FO now?   Given the bolded part above...don't you kind of feel like we are the 2012 LA Angels where Mike Trout comes up...except...we have this amazing team around him already under construction.  When Ken Griffey, JR came up at 20...the Mariners had 27 year old Edgar Martinez, 26 year old Randy Johnson and 23 year old Omar Vizquel...that's four hall of famers...and for five years they were a non-contender.   The problem was that was it's just not enough.  It's why it's so hard to win in baseball...but I feel like the management has built a group of really good players...of the likely opening day roster...who is your worst guy? Leury Garcia seems a professional backup.   Adam Eaton, same.  A lot here would say Collins...but lefty hitting backup catcher with power and a batting eye seems very useful.  Reylo and Rodon I supposed but again...with upside.  If the plan is 8 years of excellence what management did this year...short term Lynn and Hendricks, long term with Vera and Cespedes...and not handing out bad contracts...and being patient.  Seems like the way to go.  Probably also why Hahn is so frustrated with fans negativity.  HE is so excited...which is a good sign.      

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, Snopek said:

I wish we had one of those word cloud things for this forum. “If,” “could,” “should” and “potential” would be size 8,000 font. Great organizations recognize potential, but don’t rely on it. (Hi, Dodgers.) For a team with World Series aspirations, the criticism of and frustration with the FO is 100% warranted. 
 

That said, even though I struggle to see things through the same lens, I truly do appreciate the more optimistic posts on here. While my pessimism/realism often gets the best of me, the optimism helps center me when I teeter a little too far on the negative end of the spectrum.

 

In conclusion, holy sh*t. We have Luis Robert on our team. OUR team.

 

Yes, where Dustin May, Gonsolin, Gavin Lux, etc., don’t even have starting roles without injuries (see Price, David).

[Chick Mercedes]

On 2/25/2021 at 7:52 PM, VAfan said:

I seem to be one of the few posters on Soxtalk who is gung ho and positive about the team.

I just posted over at the Athletic something that came to me. Why am I so positive when so many Sox fans are so negative? I think it's because while the Sox have been wandering in the wilderness during the rebuild, I just tuned the team and MLB out. I have been a Sox fan since 1970 when I lived in the Chicago area, but I haven't lived in Illinois since 1976, so it's pretty easy for me to do that. Meanwhile, I'm guessing most of the fans who remain highly critical of the team have continued living through those painful years, and feel that team ownership and management owes them something for them having to endure those years.  Is there something to that? 

For me, returning to the team as I did last year, all I see are good things and growth.  Here are a few things that I really like (whether or not other Sox fans do).

1.  The Sox have 9 players - tied with the Dodgers - on MLB's top 100 Players Right Now list. Only 4 of them are in their 30s, with Abreu 34. Lynn 33, and Grandal and Hendriks 32. 

2. Of these 9 players, the young core is going to be here for 3 or more years. See my 3-5 year window article.  Lance Lynn is only signed for one year, but could easily be extended.  

3. Most of these 9 players are still improving -- Robert, Moncada, Giolito, Jimenez, Anderson.  The other 4 should hang in there for another few years. 

4. In addition to this top-100 core, the Sox are going to bring up three more young players with great upside - Andrew Vaughn, Michael Kopech, and Zack Collins. Some may think Collins doesn't belong on this list, but I think he just needs enough ML ABs to settle in and prove he'll be a very good offensive backup catcher and part-time lefty DH.  Meanwhile, Vaughn and Kopech might join other Sox' players on that top 100 list soon.  

5. The Sox also have a HOF manager, who has won far more games during the decades of integrated baseball than any other manager in history. He's won pennants and World Series with teams in both leagues. And he's bilingual. If he takes the Sox to the World Series and wins, he'll be the consensus best manager of all time. 

6. I love the Sox new pitching coach Ethan Katz, and what I think he'll be able to do with the young Sox pitchers, especially Dylan Cease.

7. The Sox have one of the best, and perhaps the best, bullpens in baseball. This will help them win a lot of games, and will become of even more importance when the Sox make the playoffs.  And that's without counting Garrett Crochet, the 100-mph man, who could be the ultimate bullpen weapon this year before he converts to being starter.

8. The Sox probably have the best offense in the AL. They can bash the ball with anyone.  But they can do more than just bash. They have some great speed guys in Robert and Anderson, and some excellent bat control guys like Madrigal and Eaton. 

9. The Sox have the reigning AL-MVP in Jose Abreu, who has won the RBI title the last two years. They have perhaps the best closer in baseball in Liam Hendriks. They have the 2019 batting title winner in Tim Anderson. 

10. In Tim Anderson, the Sox have one of the best leadoff players in baseball. All he did in the short postseason was get 3 hits in each of his 3 games -- 9 hits overall. He is still getting better. He was the highest ranked Sox player in the Top 100, and he's probably underrated. 

11. In Eloy Jimenez, the Sox have a budding superstar with the bat, who will probably take over Abreu's role in the middle of the lineup as Jose eventually ages out. He's also got a winning personality, keeping everyone uplifted and loose. He's smiling all the time. 

12. In Lucas Giolito, the Sox have a big-game pitcher who rises to the occasion. He may not win the Cy Young (though he may), but I wouldn't be afraid to start him heads up with any Cy Young or other pitcher in baseball. I would consider us no worse than even in any matchup. 

13. In Luis Robert, the Sox have a budding superstar. Who knows how good he'll become over the next few years. But it's going to be fun to watch.

14. The Sox went 14-0 against lefty starters last year. That should terrify opposing managers who will have to try to juggle their pitching staffs to avoid using lefty starters and relievers. 

The Sox are a young, hungry team who got a taste last year and now are ready to dominate. They have skillful and savvy vets to help lead them, several guys who have been on World Series teams, and a HOF manager who has seen it all and knows how to manage when the pressure is on. 

I'm really glad the Sox didn't go out and repeat the Encarnacion and Gonzalez mistakes, but instead decided to roll with young players who need to play to get them where they need to be by the postseason. I don't want to watch some dubious veteran with no future on the Sox take ABs away from a younger player who is expected to be part of the team's core for the next 5-6 years. I happen to really like the choices the Sox made in the offseason. 

I don't know if the Sox are going to win the AL Pennant or World Series, but I believe we're going to win the AL Central by a relatively comfortable margin. There may be ups and downs during the season, but I'm not going to freak out about it. 

I'm just going to enjoy the Sox this year. 

Just want to add an Amen. Usually I look at the team with rose colored glasses, and then by the end of the season...well you wonder why you didn't see the holes. But since the youth movement began, I'm more realistic every year because the previous organizational philosophy has been a failure, and you feel burned. After my namesake was traded I even quit on the team for a couple years, that was the final insult. But the clear direction the team has taken gives me something to hold onto ever subsequent season. As fans, all we ask for is a coherent pklan that makes sense. It isn't perfect as far as the way the scouting works,, but we don't demand perfection. The big team holes are clear, but the other slots have clear reasonable answers. And the holes are not being filled by players aquired via short term thinking. I do believe Hahn and co are long term planners. And the talent on the big club is young but fairly proven and exiting, and I am optimistic. These holes in the rotation are 1st world problems