Backup Catcher (update 3/29 - Lucroy won't make team, asked for release)

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Or no LuCroy, Kopech, Crochet, Vaughn, Collins and there's still Fry to consider once he is good to go.  Depends on what the Sox do as far as service time goes to start the season.

I’m pretty confident the Sox go with 13 pitchers, so adding Collins requires a position player to go and most informed sources are suggesting Lucroy is a lock which only leaves Mendick as the odd man out.  Of course that‘s assuming Vaughn is the opening day DH and obviously service time manipulation is still possibility there.

[Timmy U]

I am not convinced the Sox won't try to keep 14 pitchers so they can spot Kopech and give him side sessions, etc.  You could see Giolito, Keuchel, Lynn, Cease, Rodon, Hendriks, Bummer, Heuer, Marshall, Foster, Crochet, Kopech, Cordero, and Ruiz (or ReyLo) and that's not even accounting for Fry come May 1.  Whoever the 13th position player is will not get hardly any at bats unless Grandel is still hurting the first month.

[YourWhatHurts]

If Ruiz is looking better this ST (I haven't seen him) then I would like to keep him.  He has been getting better since he converted from C, and basically what he's been trying to do successfully is one of the hardest things it seems to ever do, which is convert from a position player to a P.  But the stuff is there and if he can control it, he will not only get outs in MLB, but he'll build some trade value.

At this point, I'm thinking about teams like the Orioles  and Pirates who are deep into a rebuild, as well as teams like the Cubs and Nationals, who don't have a lot on the farm and are probably looking to catch lightning in a bottle with a cheap 4-6 years control guy who is MLB ready, and I am thinking we might be able to turn someone who is an odd man out, like a ReyLo, Collins, Ruiz, etc. into a pretty good looking far away prospect or two, **if** they can show enough at the MLB level.  Even though these guys aren't going to be centerpieces for the kinds of players who would be an upgrade over what we already have, we could maybe get some interesting Rookie or A ball prospects out of some of them and look to add quality interesting depth to the bottom levels of the farm.

[Chicago White Sox]

53 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

I am not convinced the Sox won't try to keep 14 pitchers so they can spot Kopech and give him side sessions, etc.  You could see Giolito, Keuchel, Lynn, Cease, Rodon, Hendriks, Bummer, Heuer, Marshall, Foster, Crochet, Kopech, Cordero, and Ruiz (or ReyLo) and that's not even accounting for Fry come May 1.  Whoever the 13th position player is will not get hardly any at bats unless Grandel is still hurting the first month.

Isn’t there a roster limit of 13 pitchers?

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Isn’t there a roster limit of 13 pitchers?

I thought the same thing when Merkin twice referred to "I don't think they'll bring more than 8 relievers", so I looked up the rules, and MLB lifted the 13 max pitcher restriction enacted in 2020 for 2021.

https://www.mlb.com/news/what-you-need-to-know-about-mlb-in-2021

Quote

Rosters will once again feature 26 players, after expanding in 2020. Roster size will increase to 28 players in September. There will not be a limit to how many pitchers can be on a team's roster.

 

[Timmy U]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Isn’t there a roster limit of 13 pitchers?

My understanding is that was last year.  This year, there is no limit.  But all I did was a cursory internet search.  I may be mistaken.

[Dominikk85]

Honestly if they don't give Collins the backup job after the spring he is having why keep him at all? I mean he is 26 now, staching him in the minors really has no value.

So either give him the backup job or trade him, maybe his hot spring training is a good point to sell high on him.

[Dominikk85]

With the crunch I would just keep Vaughn down a couple weeks and collect the extra service time year. Collins actually has a higher OPS than Vaughn (1063 vs 905) this spring so just give him the DH job, let lucroy back up and use those two or 3 weeks to decide whom to keep and then you bring up Vaughn in late April and get rid of one of lucroy or Collins. And if Collins and lucroy both really suck you bring up Vaughn a little earlier and if they both really do well you wait for super two.

Collins raking is the perfect excuse to service time Vaughn and just going by roster crunch and 40 man status this might be the best decision anyway.

[Chicago White Sox]

8 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I thought the same thing when Merkin twice referred to "I don't think they'll bring more than 8 relievers", so I looked up the rules, and MLB lifted the 13 max pitcher restriction enacted in 2020 for 2021.

https://www.mlb.com/news/what-you-need-to-know-about-mlb-in-2021

 

 

8 hours ago, Timmy U said:

My understanding is that was last year.  This year, there is no limit.  But all I did was a cursory internet search.  I may be mistaken.

I stand corrected!  Still don’t think they bring nine relievers, but it’s a possibility if they want to protect Ruiz or really plan to limit starts in the first month.

[Chicago White Sox]

3 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

With the crunch I would just keep Vaughn down a couple weeks and collect the extra service time year. Collins actually has a higher OPS than Vaughn (1063 vs 905) this spring so just give him the DH job, let lucroy back up and use those two or 3 weeks to decide whom to keep and then you bring up Vaughn in late April and get rid of one of lucroy or Collins. And if Collins and lucroy both really suck you bring up Vaughn a little earlier and if they both really do well you wait for super two.

Collins raking is the perfect excuse to service time Vaughn and just going by roster crunch and 40 man status this might be the best decision anyway.

I am probably the biggest Collins Truther on the board, but it really seems like Vaughn is destined for the opening day DH role, especially if Harold’s eyeballs is implying him agreeing to an extension (which is just me speculating).  I still wish they’d give Zack a shot as the primary backup catcher / part-time backup 1B/DH and exclusively use him against RHP, as I think it’s a role he’d be highly if given the opportunity.

[Y2Jimmy0]

18 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Right now it looks like they keep Mendick so Collins would most likely be part of the taxi squad.  

Keeping Mendick is pointless. He's not really the 2nd option anywhere and he can just join the team in a pinch if necessary. Collins at least offers a LHB. 

[Y2Jimmy0]

14 hours ago, SoCalChiSox said:

 

How does the math work though assuming Mendick is also on the roster? 

Pitchers- Giolito, Keuchel, Lynn, Cease, Rodon, Kopech, Lopez, Hendriks, Bummer, Heuer, Crochet, Marshall, plus 1 more BP spot (13)

Position Players- Robert, Jimenez, Eaton, Moncada, Anderson, Madrigal, Abreu, Grandal, Vaughn, Engel, Lucroy, Garcia, Mendick, Collins (14)

Thats 27...not 26. And even that assumes there is only 1 more BP spot. I get the feeling it may be more.

I'm not assuming Mendick is on the roster. He's not necessary. 

[ScootsMcGoots]

44 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Keeping Mendick is pointless. He's not really the 2nd option anywhere and he can just join the team in a pinch if necessary. Collins at least offers a LHB. 

Is Leury your primary backup infielder than, assuming Engel is the primary backup outfielder?

[Y2Jimmy0]

19 minutes ago, ScooterMcGee said:

Is Leury your primary backup infielder than, assuming Engel is the primary backup outfielder?

Yeah. He can get you out of a game. And then if someone needs a DL trip, you just call up Mendick. What function would Mendick serve on the roster otherwise? Maybe at 3B I guess if Moncada needed a blow. That's probably the only use though. 

[Dominikk85]

Having two utility infielders is really not needed. Mendick and leury are kinda redundant, you only need one and then call up the other one when there is an injury. 

[mqr]

4 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

Having two utility infielders is really not needed. Mendick and leury are kinda redundant, you only need one and then call up the other one when there is an injury. 

Idk going with Mendick, Engel, Leury seems like a wise move to me. Back up infielder, Back up outfielder, back up wherever he needs to play guy. Makes much more sense to me than having Lucroy and Collins on the team at the same time. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by mqr

[YourWhatHurts]

11 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

Having two utility infielders is really not needed. Mendick and leury are kinda redundant, you only need one and then call up the other one when there is an injury. 

Count me in for the 2 UT IF.  Now in this scenario I support leaving Mendick off on Opening Day to give Collins or Yermin a shot and depending on how he looks, to avoid losing Ruiz, but eventually I want that second IF to give guys a rest and come in on defense if necessary for other reasons.

Ultimately if you have a stacked team, you always have 1-2 guys at least who aren't really playing much and are kind of "redundant" and with the 26-man roster that means probably 2-3.  But then again we have a lot of innings uncertainty in our rotation and only 1 glove-first C, so we will need to use our extra bodies more.  But I do remember Jermaine Dye playing 3B and that was even with 2 IFs on the roster IIRC.  So eventually I'd like both Mendick and Leury on the team.

[YourWhatHurts]

14 minutes ago, mqr said:

Idk going with Mendick, Engel, Leury seems like a wise move to me. Back up infielder, Back up outfielder, back up wherever he needs to play guy. Makes much more sense to me than having Lucroy and Collins on the team at the same time. 

Yeah, and the way I see it, Engel is the 4th OF, Mendick is the UT IF, and Leury is IF/OF both, so that's like 3 players covering everything but 1B and C.  Which is really awesome IMO and is exactly the kind of thing I would try to do on purpose with my bench, if I could.

[mqr]

5 minutes ago, YourWhatHurts said:

Yeah, and the way I see it, Engel is the 4th OF, Mendick is the UT IF, and Leury is IF/OF both, so that's like 3 players covering everything but 1B and C.  Which is really awesome IMO and is exactly the kind of thing I would try to do on purpose with my bench, if I could.

And you have Vaughn, Abreu, Eloy, Grandal, and probably Moncada occasionally who will be getting DH at-bats, With Vaughn and Grandal getting time at 1B as well. Where is Collins getting at bats to start the season if you also have Lucroy around? 

Don't really care which one it is because I think they both stink, but what is the point of both?

Edited March 16, 2021 by mqr

[YourWhatHurts]

9 minutes ago, mqr said:

And you have Vaughn, Abreu, Eloy, Grandal, and probably Moncada occasionally who will be getting DH at-bats, With Vaughn and Grandal getting time at 1B as well. Where is Collins getting at bats to start the season if you also have Lucroy around? 

Don't really care which one it is because I think they both stink, but what is the point of both?

With Collins obviously you are hoping he gets hot with the bat at any point during his MLB tenure.  If it happens, you ride that wave and start taking the phone calls.  Really it's the same with Yermin also.

Edit: this is a short-term scenario also for me.  Ideally we could get something for our roster crunch guys who are MLB ready but don't really fit on this team.

Edited March 16, 2021 by YourWhatHurts

[greg775]

I wish the Sox would make room for Zack. First rounder, 10th overall pick. Now he's 26. If the scouts think he has it, he should play now. If he doesn't, then do the guy a favor and trade him for some more pitching or something. Don't see how this is debatable. He's a first rounder and he's "ready."

[michelangelosmonkey]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

I wish the Sox would make room for Zack. First rounder, 10th overall pick. Now he's 26. If the scouts think he has it, he should play now. If he doesn't, then do the guy a favor and trade him for some more pitching or something. Don't see how this is debatable. He's a first rounder and he's "ready."

I've been a big supporter of Collins but the Sox sure are acting oddly with him...he's caught two games this spring???   I'm not sure what it means but in trying to read the tea leaves it seems they don't trust him to catch.  

[Dominikk85]

Collins (and yermin too) hasn't played much the last days. I wonder if this Indicates lucroy is getting the backup job. 

Would be a shame the way collins and yermin have been hitting but lucroy has hit decently too this spring (900 ops albwit with a sub 100 iso and more babip driven) and obviously is a better defender even though collins looks improved. 

[raBBit]

2 hours ago, Dominikk85 said:

Collins (and yermin too) hasn't played much the last days. I wonder if this Indicates lucroy is getting the backup job. 

Would be a shame the way collins and yermin have been hitting but lucroy has hit decently too this spring (900 ops albwit with a sub 100 iso and more babip driven) and obviously is a better defender even though collins looks improved. 

Yermin is not a catcher. His receiving looks like someone who doesn't know what pitch is coming. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

15 hours ago, raBBit said:

Yermin is not a catcher. His receiving looks like someone who doesn't know what pitch is coming. 

If Grandal can be a catcher so can Yermin.