ScootsMcGoots Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, Fernando Tatis Jr said: ‘Steele Walker’ ? Sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 23 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said: Katz is an upgrade, but Cooped was honest throughout the interview. Give him all the credit for 2005, and the development of several great pitchers during his tenure. I’m glad I tuned in. Sounds more like his feelings are hurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, elrockinMT said: Sounds more like his feelings are hurt And why wouldn't they after all those years? The white Sox don't owe him anything as they paid him well and the game has passed by him but of course a guy who dedicated his life to baseball will feel bad if he loses his job and doesn't get a new one with another team. Baseball was his whole life and getting told he can't do that anymore is hard. I'm sure he understands that this can happen quickly but it sucks nontheless. I think he is a great pitching coach who knows a ton about pitching but in the last 5-6 years that field just evolved so fast that he just lost touch with it and the Sox needed to adjust to that. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 Interesting follow up conversations today on the Score. I recommend the Stone interview to all, the Bernstein segment for those with an open mind, but not to those opposed to allowing Cooper to speak publicly or those who hate Bernstein unless they want to get upset on purpose (like Howard Stern listeners who hated him but tuned in longer than fans to hear something to upset them). Bernstein and Rahimi discussed the interview and negative White Sox fan reactions. Steve Stone had a solid segment which touched on Cooper for five minutes (6 minute mark) but also covered several other White Sox topics, Stone said Cooper was great, any issues were "Ricky's fault." (brought up Cordero usage), and stated Don Cooper is a Hall of Fame Pitching Coach along with Dave Duncan. Enjoyed the discussion regarding the acceptance of current roles for Kopech and Crochet, the bullpen as a whole and Carlos Rodon's chances of success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) On 3/11/2021 at 6:24 PM, Quin said: He was definitely one of the best pitching coaches in the league for a long time. Probably until Sale/Q departed - but then either his magic ran out or he just wanted to do a one-size fits all approach to his pitchers. Yeah, the rebuild was hard, but he had live arms. They needed to go elsewhere for help. The philosophy of the league has changed. Maximizing pitcher health and longevity is no longer a priority. A lot of Coop's philosophy sacrificed peak performance for long term health. Edited March 13, 2021 by TaylorStSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted March 13, 2021 Author Share Posted March 13, 2021 I wonder if the score will actually take Cooper up on his request to be a pitching analyst for the station. It sounds like he would do it for little pay. He's always good for a soundbite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted March 13, 2021 Author Share Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) I understand where Cooper is coming from when he said he was hurt by it. Not by the fact that he was simply fired from the job, but because they didn't even bother keeping him in the organization - even by title. Longtime Reinsdorf employees like Cooper typically are given an emeritus or ambassador type position when they are done. Hell, Gar would probably still be with the Bulls if Michael Reinsdorf didn't take over. I'm really surprised Coop isn't the head pitching instructor emeritus or something, similar to Herm Schneider. Maybe they offered it and he denied. Edited March 13, 2021 by ron883 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 It is true that JR is very loyal and often provides a soft landing spot for fired employees. My guess is Coop's offenses are considered worse than just got a little outdated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWINFan Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 8 hours ago, ron883 said: I understand where Cooper is coming from when he said he was hurt by it. Not by the fact that he was simply fired from the job, but because they didn't even bother keeping him in the organization - even by title. Longtime Reinsdorf employees like Cooper typically are given an emeritus or ambassador type position when they are done. Hell, Gar would probably still be with the Bulls if Michael Reinsdorf didn't take over. I'm really surprised Coop isn't the head pitching instructor emeritus or something, similar to Herm Schneider. Maybe they offered it and he denied. I don't think the organization really owed anything to Cooper. He had a nice run, probably much longer than most coaches would get. Also, sometimes it is a good thing that people and organizations part ways. It is painful at first, but many times it makes sense to say good-bye and leave it that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 8 hours ago, ron883 said: I understand where Cooper is coming from when he said he was hurt by it. Not by the fact that he was simply fired from the job, but because they didn't even bother keeping him in the organization - even by title. Longtime Reinsdorf employees like Cooper typically are given an emeritus or ambassador type position when they are done. Hell, Gar would probably still be with the Bulls if Michael Reinsdorf didn't take over. I'm really surprised Coop isn't the head pitching instructor emeritus or something, similar to Herm Schneider. Maybe they offered it and he denied. I’m pretty sure Michael Reinsdorf was friends with Gar and not Jerry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 It's the way the business works. We should feel bad for Coop in a way. 65 years old, gave 32 years to the organization, and is un ceremoniously dumped. Now, maybe they asked him to retire and make a big deal out of it, but he said no. That is very possible. But time moves on. There just may not have been a better way to move on , and that may not be on the team. There was one beat guy, and I forgot which who tweeted that it appeared Coop was getting kicked upstairs right before the announcement. So maybe Coop wanted no part of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWINFan Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 30 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: It's the way the business works. We should feel bad for Coop in a way. 65 years old, gave 32 years to the organization, and is un ceremoniously dumped. Now, maybe they asked him to retire and make a big deal out of it, but he said no. That is very possible. But time moves on. There just may not have been a better way to move on , and that may not be on the team. There was one beat guy, and I forgot which who tweeted that it appeared Coop was getting kicked upstairs right before the announcement. So maybe Coop wanted no part of that. The corporate world is an not a friendly place. I retired from a place after over 22 years. At the 21-year mark, management threatened to fire me. When I left on my own a year later, the organization head refused to acknowledge me in any way and refused to wish me luck as I walked out the door. Wasn't all that pleasant. Fortunately for me, I have other professional pursuits, and I have had a productive retirement. I don't know what Coop has to look forward to if he doesn't have baseball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Dick Allen said: It's the way the business works. We should feel bad for Coop in a way. 65 years old, gave 32 years to the organization, and is un ceremoniously dumped. Now, maybe they asked him to retire and make a big deal out of it, but he said no. That is very possible. But time moves on. There just may not have been a better way to move on , and that may not be on the team. There was one beat guy, and I forgot which who tweeted that it appeared Coop was getting kicked upstairs right before the announcement. So maybe Coop wanted no part of that. Dude shoulda been fired years ago. He should feel bad for his poor work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
he gone. Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 On 3/11/2021 at 5:58 PM, Chisoxfn said: Lets be honest - maybe he isn't as good today as he once was or maybe there are better coaches today than before. But for a long time - Coop was amongst the best pitching coaches in the league. I will always stand by that. Totally. You don't keep a job in MLB for more than like 3 years .... you just don't. Look how much managers and coaches turnover. Look how much players turnover. To do what coop did was a testament to his good work. coaches are just tools to unlock potential. coops approach was to keep it simple from what i've heard over the years, get it and throw it. The grip and rip it approach in a way. pitching to me seems a lot like golf - you can get lost in the weeds with a lot of overthinking and slight tweaks. the top players can fall from grace quick and never get it back. for a lot of these guys they're in the majors because of their "stuff" and for a lot of guys the get it and throw it approach is what they need. To me it would've been nice to have a few pitching coaches on the squad.. a coop guy for the guys who need that approach and a katz for the guys who want the deep dive approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScootsMcGoots Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said: Totally. You don't keep a job in MLB for more than like 3 years .... you just don't. Look how much managers and coaches turnover. Look how much players turnover. To do what coop did was a testament to his good work. coaches are just tools to unlock potential. coops approach was to keep it simple from what i've heard over the years, get it and throw it. The grip and rip it approach in a way. pitching to me seems a lot like golf - you can get lost in the weeds with a lot of overthinking and slight tweaks. the top players can fall from grace quick and never get it back. for a lot of these guys they're in the majors because of their "stuff" and for a lot of guys the get it and throw it approach is what they need. To me it would've been nice to have a few pitching coaches on the squad.. a coop guy for the guys who need that approach and a katz for the guys who want the deep dive approach. I like your idea...unfortunately I think a lot of pride and headbutting would ultmately result in nothing good happening, due to conflicting philosophies. Edited March 15, 2021 by ScooterMcGee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 Cooper not wanting pitchers to throw a curve ball is nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 On 3/15/2021 at 10:01 AM, BrianAnderson said: Totally. You don't keep a job in MLB for more than like 3 years .... you just don't. Look how much managers and coaches turnover. Look how much players turnover. To do what coop did was a testament to his good work. coaches are just tools to unlock potential. coops approach was to keep it simple from what i've heard over the years, get it and throw it. The grip and rip it approach in a way. pitching to me seems a lot like golf - you can get lost in the weeds with a lot of overthinking and slight tweaks. the top players can fall from grace quick and never get it back. for a lot of these guys they're in the majors because of their "stuff" and for a lot of guys the get it and throw it approach is what they need. To me it would've been nice to have a few pitching coaches on the squad.. a coop guy for the guys who need that approach and a katz for the guys who want the deep dive approach. As a golfer, I've been lost in the weeds for a long time. Staying with the golf analogy...almost all pro golfers have swing coaches that don't teach grip it and rip it. They need constant reminders of the fundamentals that they get away from over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 9 hours ago, poppysox said: As a golfer, I've been lost in the weeds for a long time. Staying with the golf analogy...almost all pro golfers have swing coaches that don't teach grip it and rip it. They need constant reminders of the fundamentals that they get away from over time. We probably have different understandings of grip it and rip it. But for most of the past two decades distance has been taught far more than accuracy. 320 in the rough is preferred to 295 in the fairway with plenty of stats to back it up. Mark Brodie did some great work for his book Every Shot Counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, Texsox said: We probably have different understandings of grip it and rip it. But for most of the past two decades distance has been taught far more than accuracy. 320 in the rough is preferred to 295 in the fairway with plenty of stats to back it up. Mark Brodie did some great work for his book Every Shot Counts. Yeah...well, when I can hit it in the rough 320 I'll let you know.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 This thread sponsored by The Golf Channel... It was time for him to move on. If he can actually deliver insight without sniping at callers and getting revenge for perceived grudges, otherwise, what's the point of keeping all that negativity/bad vibe around such an exciting young team. He's basically the opposite in every way of what the Brooks Boyer marketing message should be to attract young/teenager fans, or even just those under age 35. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 25 minutes ago, poppysox said: Yeah...well, when I can hit it in the rough 320 I'll let you know.? The idea is the swing coaches are teaching distance over accuracy. I spend five days a week on ranges and that's what the students will pay for. It's rare that someone calls a pro and asks for a lesson on hitting wedges closer (they do want to put some pro sauce on it even if the ball lands short of the hole). It's "how can I hit my drives twenty yards longer?" The progression today is teaching from tee to green. Teach the player to hit it long then figure out where it's going. A big difference from my days as a young player when you learned the game from the green back to the tee. Eventually the better players learn you don't hit a driver on 14 holes. But you don't need one when you hit a hybrid 250. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 On 3/13/2021 at 10:22 AM, NWINFan said: The corporate world is an not a friendly place. I retired from a place after over 22 years. At the 21-year mark, management threatened to fire me. When I left on my own a year later, the organization head refused to acknowledge me in any way and refused to wish me luck as I walked out the door. Wasn't all that pleasant. Fortunately for me, I have other professional pursuits, and I have had a productive retirement. I don't know what Coop has to look forward to if he doesn't have baseball. The way you were treated is what annoys me about the business world and in some respects our country. What did you do to deserve this ire of the "organization head" who wouldn't wish you luck as you left? Was there any reason for he/she to act this way? I don't understand why staying with a company a long time now is sometimes considered a bad thing. Why did they threaten to fire you at the 21 year mark? Sorry for carrying on, I just get mad when the corporate world acts this way. ... as far as Coop, we all know he's grumpy. He made a good buck I'm sure with the Sox; would assume he gets the pension. Coop is 65. He needs to chill out, be happy and if he wants to stay in baseball use his connections. Coop is kind of a curmudgeon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWINFan Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 11 hours ago, greg775 said: The way you were treated is what annoys me about the business world and in some respects our country. What did you do to deserve this ire of the "organization head" who wouldn't wish you luck as you left? Was there any reason for he/she to act this way? I don't understand why staying with a company a long time now is sometimes considered a bad thing. Why did they threaten to fire you at the 21 year mark? Sorry for carrying on, I just get mad when the corporate world acts this way. ... as far as Coop, we all know he's grumpy. He made a good buck I'm sure with the Sox; would assume he gets the pension. Coop is 65. He needs to chill out, be happy and if he wants to stay in baseball use his connections. Coop is kind of a curmudgeon. I won't go into all of my details. I only wanted to relate to the Cooper situation in a personal way. We fans sometimes forget these people are human. Cooper is going through what many do when they face or are forced into retirement. When I retired, I had another profession to pursue. Cooper doesn't have that. So Spring Training is here, the season is only weeks away and Cooper is sitting at home. His dismissal was probably the right thing. The team was moving in another direction in another time. That's why some fans were irritated by the LaRussa hire. It looked like a move backwards when the team was heading forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 Someone posted a clip of Katz working with Cease. Very impressive...I think we got a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 14 hours ago, NWINFan said: IThat's why some fans were irritated by the LaRussa hire. It looked like a move backwards when the team was heading forward. I hear you. You know, if it wasn't for Tony's awful, unacceptable DUI, I'd really be enthused. I like watching his interviews on whitesox.com. I hope I'm as sharp at him at his age. I personally think we have a smart manager. I'll be interested in reading game threads this year as we second-guess what's going on in game threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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