2021 Sox vs Tribe/Twins rivalry is 2006 redux

[joejoesox]

Barring any major injuries, this year is going to be a nail biter within the division from start to finish.  Those of you who were around these boards in 2006 will remember how frustrating that year was, especially in the final month of the season

The Sox were 9-10 vs the Twins and 8-11 vs Cleveland, and 7-12 vs DET ?

I'm seeing most publications and bloggers picking the Twins to win the division in 2021, and I'd imagine part of that is our head to head records, Sox seem to struggle or at worst be extremely competitive within the ALC

2020 vs MIN 5-5

2020 vs CLE 2-8

 

who else remembers 2006 like it was yesterday ? Thome was great tho

Edited March 14, 2021 by joesaiditstrue

[NWINFan]

Winning within the division has been a problem for the White Sox for a long time. Obviously, they will need to reverse this trend if they are finally going to win the division after 13 years. Getting beaten by everyone including KC has been a nightmare.  Forget the rest of the league. They need to win within their own division.

[Jerksticks]

Fortunately we have twice the talent of either of these clubs.  In theory

[joejoesox]

43 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Fortunately we have twice the talent of either of these clubs.  In theory

yeah.  I try to not get overly excited but I'm pretty sure this is the most talented roster the sox have had in probably 97% of this boards lifetimes

[Balta1701]

11 minutes ago, joesaiditstrue said:

yeah.  I try to not get overly excited but I'm pretty sure this is the most talented roster the sox have had in probably 97% of this boards lifetimes

That early 2000s roster was ridiculously talented and followed up a true #1 system. 

[Jerksticks]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

That early 2000s roster was ridiculously talented and followed up a true #1 system. 

Those were some of my favorite rosters and early in my fandom.  I started really getting into it in like 1997.  
 

I don’t think that system was even close to this current one, especially finished top-end talents.  We all know the names.   I just think these current guys could turn into legit all stars at like almost every single position on the field.  And that’s not even chugging the koolaid.  Sipping for sure- chugging, surprisingly not.  Agree?

[Balta1701]

37 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Those were some of my favorite rosters and early in my fandom.  I started really getting into it in like 1997.  
 

I don’t think that system was even close to this current one, especially finished top-end talents.  We all know the names.   I just think these current guys could turn into legit all stars at like almost every single position on the field.  And that’s not even chugging the koolaid.  Sipping for sure- chugging, surprisingly not.  Agree?

The reason we think that the current guys look better is that several guys from that system (Borchard, Rauch, Wells) never lived up to the hype. That doesn't mean it wasn't loaded, it just took a more circuitous route to 2005 than we would like to do this time.

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, joesaiditstrue said:

yeah.  I try to not get overly excited but I'm pretty sure this is the most talented roster the sox have had in probably 97% of this boards lifetimes

It's a solid club, and I while I do believe the club has a more realistic chance of peaking in 2022 or 2023, when Kopech and possibly Crochet are in the rotation, Robert and Vaughn have more experience plus other additions/callups, it has a chance to finish high among the best if the pitching comes together.

I would still rank the 1994 team the best in my close to a half century of watching, though with smart moves the next few years this core has a shot of eclipsing.

Prorated bWAR for the strike shortened 1994 season / (1993 full season bWAR) - a comparable team:

1. LF T. Raines 2.6 (3.8)
2. 2B J. Cora 1.0 (1.7)
3. 1B F Thomas 9.2 (6.2)
4. DH J. Franco 4.3 (George Bell -2.5 102 Games WTF?!)
5. 3B R. Ventura 4.3 (5.3)
6. RF D. Jackson 3.9 (Ellis Burks 2.9)
7. CF L. Johnson 2.4 (6.1)
8. C R. Karkovice 1.6 (3.2)
9. SS O. Guillen 1.1 (1.8)

Starting Pitching: 1. J. McDowell 5.4 (4.4); 2. W. Alvarez 5.3 (4.9); 3. A. Fernandez 4.3 (5.4); 4. J. Bere 4.0 (2.6); 5. S. Sanderson 0.6 (Tim Belcher 0.5).

Edited March 15, 2021 by South Side Hit Men

[YourWhatHurts]

14 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

It's a solid club, and I while I do believe the club has a more realistic chance of peaking in 2022 or 2023, when Kopech and possibly Crochet are in the rotation, Robert and Vaughn have more experience plus other additions/callups, it has a chance to finish high among the best if the pitching comes together.

I would still rank the 1994 team the best in my close to a half century of watching, though with smart moves the next few years this core has a shot of eclipsing.

Prorated bWAR for the strike shortened 1994 season / (1993 full season bWAR) - a comparable team:

1. LF T. Raines 2.6 (3.8)
2. 2B J. Cora 1.0 (1.7)
3. 1B F Thomas 9.2 (6.2)
4. DH J. Franco 4.3 (George Bell -2.5 102 Games WTF?!)
5. 3B R. Ventura 4.3 (5.3)
6. RF D. Jackson 3.9 (Ellis Burks 2.9)
7. CF L. Johnson 2.4 (6.1)
8. C R. Karkovice 1.6 (3.2)
9. SS O. Guillen 1.1 (1.8)

Starting Pitching: 1. J. McDowell 5.4 (4.4); 2. W. Alvarez 5.3 (4.9); 3. A. Fernandez 4.3 (5.4); 4. J. Bere 4.0 (2.6); 5. S. Sanderson 0.6 (Tim Belcher 0.5).

On paper, I think the 2006 Sox were even more talented.  Problem was Freddy getting hurt, Pods getting hurt, slides from Cotts and Politte, Hermanson was done, etc.  But adding Thornton, good MacDougal, Riske as a MR, and of course Thome and Javy Vazquez... that's the most stacked I've ever seen the Sox (again on paper).

2003 was very talented as well with Loaiza in his career year plus Bartolo with Buehrle and a still-developing Garland.  No 5th starter though, as usual.

The 1994 Sox could have won it all.  The defense was strong, but the bottom of the order wasn't very good.  Frank and Julio back-to-back was nuts though.  Add in Robin and they had to have the best 3-4-5 in baseball the way Frank was going.

[South Side Hit Men]

3 minutes ago, YourWhatHurts said:

On paper, I think the 2006 Sox were even more talented.  Problem was Freddy getting hurt, Pods getting hurt, slides from Cotts and Politte, Hermanson was done, etc.  But adding Thornton, good MacDougal, Riske as a MR, and of course Thome and Javy Vazquez... that's the most stacked I've ever seen the Sox (again on paper).

2003 was very talented as well with Loaiza in his career year plus Bartolo with Buehrle and a still-developing Garland.  No 5th starter though, as usual.

The 1994 Sox could have won it all.  The defense was strong, but the bottom of the order wasn't very good.  Frank and Julio back-to-back was nuts though.  Add in Robin and they had to have the best 3-4-5 in baseball the way Frank was going.

It's really hard for a team to repeat, human nature to not be in the same mindset after winning it all the year before. Add coming off the extra month of work for the heavily used playoff staff, and it wasn't realistic to expect another playoff run.

I'd say the 1993/1994 rotations were much stronger 1-3 vs. 2021, though the advantage would be offset in part, the corresponding 2021 bullpen advantage if most perform to expectations. If the Sox have Giolito, Kopech, Crochet and Cease/FA 1-4 in 2023, it could be formidable in the playoffs if they develop to their potential. Add two more years of experience for Vaughn and Robert, Madrigal if he can play well and this could be a year the Sox are actually a top 2-3 World Series favorite. 

This will be a solid year, but the youth and need to build up arm strength (Kopech, Crochet, Cease,) and player experience (Vaughn, Roberts, Madrigal) makes this more of a developmental season than a playoff favorite, IMO. If they come close to matching last year's winning percentage (95 win season), it will be a big success, regardless of their playoff results, which are largely a crap shoot.

It's why there have only been one repeat World Series Champions (Yankees 1998-2000) in the 26 years of wild card playoffs. In the previous 26 seasons, Toronto (1992-1993), New York (1977-78); Cincinnati (1975-76) and Oakland (1972-1974) were able to do it. Winning three rounds much harder than winning two. Owners want to make it four for $$$ max profits, rendering the season largely irrelevant beyond weeding out under .500 teams.

[DoUEvenShift]

The Twins have been a pain in our ass since i started watching baseball. Hoping that our Cuban core changes that trend and we become a pain in THEIR ass the next decade.