Petition to Move Eloy to DH Permanently

[fathom]

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

 

Sounds good, has to happen. You can’t put him out there ever again.

[South Side Hit Men]

4 hours ago, YourWhatHurts said:

Even though Abreu's a leader, Eloy is the better bat going forward, so Eloy should be higher priority.  This isn't going to be an issue until 2022 now.  But for 2022, Vaughn should be the 1B, Eloy the DH, and Abreu can get ABs as a 1B and DH when those 2 get days off, and if Vaughn proves good enough in LF to stick there once per week, then Abreu can get ABs when the LF gets a day off with Vaughn going to LF.

I would rather try to get Abreu enough ABs to keep him somewhat happy, but whatever the case, Eloy's bat has the potential to anchor the middle of the Sox lineup during their run, and that has to take a higher priority.  Same with Vaughn at 1B and in the middle of the order.  I think Abreu will be amenable to some lesser playing time here, just because of who he is.  He could even maybe get some PH opportunities on days we don't start our UT player(s) to help rack up some appearances.

Edit: I will also add that if this team could stand to lose Frank, Robin, Buerhle and Jack McDowell, they can certainly deal with losing Jose in a trade, if necessary.  As long as KW keeps his b**** mouth shut about it this time.

You also have 40-60 games of Grandal DH/1B time to consider, because at his age he likely can't catch much beyond 100, assuming he will be healthy enough to do so during his final three seasons (he only caught 32 last season). And if you say fuck it, make him catch 120/130, good luck with his health or any playoff production if he survives the season. The other option is sitting $18M in salary for 40-60 games because Hahn was excited last December, despite having solid a solid starting catcher.

People bashed me for daring to criticize their poor roster construction and heavy portion of payroll dedicated to players in their 30s, instead of adding more depth across several players and pitchers. This isn't the only injury that will occur this season, and the architect of this roster is entrenched as long as Jerry is alive, so I don't expect anything thing to change next off-season or beyond. 

[YourWhatHurts]

15 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

You also have 40-60 games of Grandal DH/1B time to consider, because at his age he likely can't catch much beyond 100, assuming he will be healthy enough to do so during his final three seasons (he only caught 32 last season). And if you say fuck it, make him catch 120/130, good luck with his health or any playoff production if he survives the season. The other option is sitting $18M in salary for 40-60 games because Hahn was excited last December, despite having solid a solid starting catcher.

People bashed me for daring to criticize their poor roster construction and heavy portion of payroll dedicated to players in their 30s, instead of adding more depth across several players and pitchers. This isn't the only injury that will occur this season, and the architect of this roster is entrenched as long as Jerry is alive, so I don't expect anything thing to change next off-season or beyond. 

I'm with you.  There isn't a chance in hell I'd have given all that money to Grandal.  In my mind, he's a nice player to have if he's going to pick up his ABs subbing at 1B, acting as a backup C, and spending the rest of his time at DH.  But the Sox already had a DH in LF and another 1B/DH at 1B, and Collins perfect world profile is basically a LH hitting version of Grandal: passable backup C and bat at 1B and DH.  

McCann was already here and Realmuto was on track for FA.  McCann was extendable.  This is another of Hahn's bad deals IMO.

I do hope that the Sox are smart enough to get out of the last 1-2 years of Keuchel and Grandal while they presumably can.  And as far as who is the fulltime C, I am a believer in letting other teams develop your C if you don't do it internally.  I'm more than willing to take an offensive liability at C if necessary.  Look at the Indians, Padres, etc. a bunch of teams which are good will prioritize catching at that position vs. offense.

No matter what, going forward in 2022, I want to see Vaughn at 1B and Eloy at DH.  I'd be just fine with making "baseball moves" and relegating Abreu to a backup role or trading him, and I'd do backflips if the Sox traded Grandal and replaced him with a pitching-and-defense-first starting C.  

It's such a damn shame that the best C in a very long time was a FA this offseason, and he ended up signing for IMO way less than he is actually worth, and Hahn took the Sox out of that conversation entirely.  Just compare what Realmuto has actually done in his career and Realmuto's performances on both sides of the ball relative to his peers and what he was paid for, vs. what Bauer has actually done in his career and Bauer's performances relative to his peers and what he was paid for.  Or look at the SS market, and the Manny Machado chase and the money thrown around there, and then look at all of the excellent SS out there.  The C situation is nothing like either situation, and Realmuto is so much better than the rest of the class it's ridiculous.  But he fell into COVID FA and the Sox were out of it because their GM is an idiot.  Ugh.

[RagahRagah]

I definitely understand the rationale of people who don't want to move Eloy to DH too early in his career and the reasons why, but I think at this point you have to seriously consider it, regardless of potential issues and alternatives because this just simply cannot continue. I have no interest simply waiting for the star piece of one of our best trades to become the OF version of Mark Prior when we can do something to prevent it, especially during our supposed championship window. And after this injury he may never be the same regardless. We have no depth and can't afford injuries like this and we haven't even started the season yet.

Edited March 26, 2021 by RagahRagah

[South Side Hit Men]

36 minutes ago, YourWhatHurts said:

I'm with you.  There isn't a chance in hell I'd have given all that money to Grandal.  In my mind, he's a nice player to have if he's going to pick up his ABs subbing at 1B, acting as a backup C, and spending the rest of his time at DH.  But the Sox already had a DH in LF and another 1B/DH at 1B, and Collins perfect world profile is basically a LH hitting version of Grandal: passable backup C and bat at 1B and DH.  

McCann was already here and Realmuto was on track for FA.  McCann was extendable.  This is another of Hahn's bad deals IMO.

I do hope that the Sox are smart enough to get out of the last 1-2 years of Keuchel and Grandal while they presumably can.  And as far as who is the fulltime C, I am a believer in letting other teams develop your C if you don't do it internally.  I'm more than willing to take an offensive liability at C if necessary.  Look at the Indians, Padres, etc. a bunch of teams which are good will prioritize catching at that position vs. offense.

No matter what, going forward in 2022, I want to see Vaughn at 1B and Eloy at DH.  I'd be just fine with making "baseball moves" and relegating Abreu to a backup role or trading him, and I'd do backflips if the Sox traded Grandal and replaced him with a pitching-and-defense-first starting C.  

It's such a damn shame that the best C in a very long time was a FA this offseason, and he ended up signing for IMO way less than he is actually worth, and Hahn took the Sox out of that conversation entirely.  Just compare what Realmuto has actually done in his career and Realmuto's performances on both sides of the ball relative to his peers and what he was paid for, vs. what Bauer has actually done in his career and Bauer's performances relative to his peers and what he was paid for.  Or look at the SS market, and the Manny Machado chase and the money thrown around there, and then look at all of the excellent SS out there.  The C situation is nothing like either situation, and Realmuto is so much better than the rest of the class it's ridiculous.  But he fell into COVID FA and the Sox were out of it because their GM is an idiot.  Ugh.

I'm with you except for the Abreu part, he's playing through 2022, unless there is some type if severe injury or completely unexpected drop off in production. I know it was a short season, but he was MVP and is far more valuable in the present than Andrew Vaughn. They will have tough decisions for 2023, especially if Keuchel vests (160 IP next two years) and they are stuck with that $20M albatross of a deal.

Would like the Sox to bring in Kim Ng as President, clean house, and give Abreu and opportunity in the FO or perhaps working with Paddy, if those options are something he is interested in, or just about anything else he would like to do with the organization. He has a great passion for the game, is smart, can be instrumental in continuing to recruit top Cuban players and is a person people love. He may also have 1 or 2 years left in the tank on the field, but they can evaluate that scenario in another 18 months.

[ChiSox59]

16 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

You also have 40-60 games of Grandal DH/1B time to consider, because at his age he likely can't catch much beyond 100, assuming he will be healthy enough to do so during his final three seasons (he only caught 32 last season). And if you say fuck it, make him catch 120/130, good luck with his health or any playoff production if he survives the season. The other option is sitting $18M in salary for 40-60 games because Hahn was excited last December, despite having solid a solid starting catcher.

People bashed me for daring to criticize their poor roster construction and heavy portion of payroll dedicated to players in their 30s, instead of adding more depth across several players and pitchers. This isn't the only injury that will occur this season, and the architect of this roster is entrenched as long as Jerry is alive, so I don't expect anything thing to change next off-season or beyond. 

No matter how much you try to talk it into existence, the only way Grandal is catching 100ish games is if he is hurt.  Sorry man.  

[Vulture]

I don’t really see benching any of Abreu, Vaughn or Eloy to get Grandal in at DH/1b 40-60 times either. He’s not that good of a hitter.Hopefully La Russa isn’t looking at paystubs when he’s making out lineup cards. Payroll is what it is, that ought to go out the window in favor of using the roster to its maximum effect.

Dodgers are probably going to use Price out of the bullpen. Is that a waste of however tens of millions he’s making? Maybe but they’re paying the same payroll no matter how they use the players. Idea should be to get most out of the roster regardless of how the pie is divvied up.

[Stinky Stanky]

He's hurt himself running the bases.  DH'ing doesn't help out there.  I'm not worried about him or any fielder jumping into the netting.  It's actually a way to make some great catches no one would have attempted in the old days.  

Solution? Lotsa tape and fingers crossed.

 

[YourWhatHurts]

"Find out what he can't do, and then don't ask him to do it."

[South Side Hit Men]

4 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

No matter how much you try to talk it into existence, the only way Grandal is catching 100ish games is if he is hurt.  Sorry man.  

Well, with 2020 similar to an off season full of rest (32 games caught), Hahn’s latest roster construction mess, and Eloy’s lost season, 2021 is the likely best shot of the three to exceed “100ish” games over the rest of his contract.

For his full time seasons, not counting his steroid suspension year or 2020 (2014-2019), he averaged 114.5 games played, don’t think it’s realistic to ask him to exceed that during the decline phase of his career.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

No matter how much you try to talk it into existence, the only way Grandal is catching 100ish games is if he is hurt.  Sorry man.  

Not to mention Keuchel's contract becomes an albatross if it vests. I thought you had to suck 1st before a contract can be considered an albatross.

[tray]

Eloy has to get rid of the baby fat  and work on his core strength just like Avi Garcia did.after he was injured diving for a ball.

Avi came back looking like a different player.   A lighter frame allowed him to be faster and more resilient to injury.

It would be great if Eloy could make it back for a play-off run if this team can get there without him.

That is what Schwarber did a few years ago and it paid off.

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by tray

[South Side Hit Men]

25 minutes ago, tray said:

Eloy has to get rid of the baby fat  and work on his core strength just like Avi Garcia did.after he was injured diving for a ball.

Avi came back looking like a different player.   A lighter frame allowed him to be faster and more resilient to injury.

It would be great if Eloy could make it back for a play-off run if this team can get there without him.

That is what Schwarber did a few years ago and it paid off.

 

There is a lot more going on than "baby fat".

Eloy Jimenez has played a 177 games in the Major League. He has been injured six times.

• 4/26/19 - Ejoy Jimenez suffers a high ankle sprain attempting to play Left Field. Eloy is placed on IR, returned 5/20
• 7/16/19 - Ejoy Jimenez collides with Charlie Tilson attempting to play Left Field. Eloy suffers a right ulnar nerve contusion and is placed on IR, returned 7/28
• 7/26/20 - Ejoy Jimenez attacks the wall in Left Field with his head and losses that battle. Eloy avoids IR, returned 7/29
• 8/25/20 - Ejoy Jimenez twisted his ankle attempting to preserve celebrating Lucas Giolito's no hitter. Returned 8/27
• 9/24/20 - Ejoy Jimenez sprained his foot attempting to run the bases. Missed the remainder of the regular season, missed all but two at bats in the postseason.
• 3/23/21 - Ejoy Jimenez tears his pectoral tendon, attempting to play Left Field. Eloy is placed on the 60 Day IR, is expected to miss most if not all of the season.

This doesn't even account for his -2.0 dWAR in 168 games in Left Field. They need Steve Dahl to go to Center Field, put Eloy Jimenez' glove in a box and blow it up upon his return to the team.

[CentralChamps21]

16 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

• 7/16/19 - Ejoy Jimenez collides with Charlie Tilson attempting to play Left Field. Eloy suffers a right ulnar nerve contusion and is placed on IR, returned 7/28

To be fair, if Charlie Tilson is in the lineup on 7/16, the season is already a lost cause.

[tray]

On 3/24/2021 at 9:44 PM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I love Eloy. I really do. He has the chance to be a very special bat for many years and cheap for a long time. But to be honest in a post a few months back I said if I had to trade anyone from the core it would be him. It's why I also wanted David Dahl or Mike Yazstremski before we signed Eaton. Eloy has not learned his limitations. He tries so hard and wants to be a better fielder so badly . I don't think he is even used to his grown up body yet. He probably weighs 25 or more lbs than he used to when he played RF. Remember that spectacular catch he made in the Futures game 2016. Foul ball, basically an exhibition game . Moncada won the MvP of those games but Eloy was the talk of the games with that catch and some Stat Cast rockets despite being in low A at the time.

 

Eloy was in a lot better shape and probably weighed 10-20 pounds less when he made that catch.  Anyway, if he was in better condition, he my not have sustained that injury.

Anyway Eloy is a star player who has a lot of say in terms of where he plays. I bet he will still want to go out there and prove he can handle it.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

14 hours ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

To be fair, if Charlie Tilson is in the lineup on 7/16, the season is already a lost cause.

A lost season in the last year of the rebuild wasn't exactly his point. It was the amount of times he's been injured in a relatively small amount of games.

[Flash]

Eloy is easy to root for...seems a little goofy, perpetual smile, big-kid persona and, importantly, he can hit a baseball, often a long way, all of which translates to significant market value. The problem is he appears to lack athleticism to the point of looking silly a lot of the time. This lack of athleticism combined with being seriously injury prone makes him unreliable. I've previously posited (months ago) that he should be used as a trade chit, ideally for a TOR starter, while his market value exceeded his intrinsic value to the team. I believe the real casualty with his latest injury is that it diminishes his market/trade value. I understand most people here love Eloy and the thought of trading him is heresy but, for me, we missed the window and are now left with a big (and not inexpensive) unknown.

[harkness99]

he should be the guy that DH;s the most.

 

like 70% of the time... he can play left the other 30% when grandal or jose or whoever needs a break.

[ron883]

Maybe this is the wakeup call that Eloy needed. It's time to get serious about being a passable outfielder. It will net him much more money in the future. Hopefully we see Eloy come back in a little better shape, down a few pounds, with a commitment to improving his fielding.