The Andrew Vaughn LF Thread

[ptatc]

43 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I had a bad hamstring that felt like I was shot in the leg.  Turned black and lasted for months.  However, my progress was steady and without setbacks.  A professional athlete with top-notch trainers...I expected him back a month ago.

Set backs do happen as they are much more aggressive with professional athletes but not 3 set backs as what's being reported.

["The Kids Can Play"]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

It's puzzling.  Not so much the injury as hamstrings strains can take awhile to come back from but the constant reports of set backs. The medical group is too good to keep allowing this. 

I agree with you it that it is puzzling and super concerning that the Sox have so many hamstring pulls. However let's assume the Sox have a competent medical staff along with their trainers and strength-conditioning staff. Regardless of that expertise...and let's pray and assume they are very good....even if the staff has given the players a specific competent exercise, strength and stretching program of pre game/off season specific exercises, the bottom line is, the players have ownership here and must still diligently perform set given exercises in the most thorough and quality manner possible. 

If this continues throughout the season then we have a bigger problem to deal with. 

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, ejm3 said:

I agree with you it that it is puzzling and super concerning that the Sox have so many hamstring pulls. However let's assume the Sox have a competent medical staff along with their trainers and strength-conditioning staff. Regardless of that expertise...and let's pray and assume they are very good....even if the staff has given the players a specific competent exercise, strength and stretching program of pre game/off season specific exercises, the bottom line is, the players have ownership here and must still diligently perform set given exercises in the most thorough and quality manner possible. 

If this continues throughout the season then we have a bigger problem to deal with. 

Athlete compliance can be an issue. Usually it's not compliance with doing the work but it's doing the work that's suggested for them by the organization. Many go outside the organization for "expert" help and it isn't always the best advice.

["The Kids Can Play"]

20 hours ago, Soxsi75 said:

I agree it does seem to be working. But I hope you aren't really trying to throw something in my face here.......because if you are, review what I first said. A key question is this.  Can he make EVERY play a normal left fielder will make. So far he has and I imagine he will continue to.

This is your full statement: "Can he make EVERY play that any normal left fielder can make? If he can't, then this is a ridiculous experiment. Because this isn't a developmental league". I am not judging the first part of the statement, but the latter part of your statement you seemed to have forgotten to post: "If he can't, then this is a ridiculous experiment. Because this isn't a developmental league"! In my opinion you are rushing to judgment on Vaughn and assuming he can't or telling us what the end verdict should be. All I am saying is so far he is making the routine plays and until he can't make them....we shouldn't have anyone playing left except Vaughn. We don't need the ultimate verdict of not playing Vaughn in left, until he makes it clear he cant play the position. 

[Soxsi75]

7 hours ago, ejm3 said:

This is your full statement: "Can he make EVERY play that any normal left fielder can make? If he can't, then this is a ridiculous experiment. Because this isn't a developmental league". I am not judging the first part of the statement, but the latter part of your statement you seemed to have forgotten to post: "If he can't, then this is a ridiculous experiment. Because this isn't a developmental league"! In my opinion you are rushing to judgment on Vaughn and assuming he can't or telling us what the end verdict should be. All I am saying is so far he is making the routine plays and until he can'My t make them....we shouldn't have anyone playing left except Vaughn. We don't need the ultimate verdict of not playing Vaughn in left, until he makes it clear he cant play the position. 

"In my opinion you are rushing to judgment on Vaughn and assuming he can't or telling us what the end verdict should be."     

Have to disagree with you. I didn't say, what you are saying I said, at all.  You said you aren't judging the first part of my statement. OK, we got that established. The part you have a problem with, is when I said "If he can't, then this is a ridiculous experiment. Because this isn't a developmental league." 

My key words are, IF HE CAN'T! OK, he's proven he can. And so since he's proven he can, I agree with you. No one else should be playing left except him. 

Sorry man, sounds to me like you're trying to throw it in my face with an "I told you so" since I questioned whether he could play left before the season, which I admitted I did, but didn't everybody? He'd never played there before. I admit that I'm glad my original concern was unfounded, and that truly Vaughn's play in left field has been one of the few pleasant surprises to what very quickly appears to be heading for a very disappointing season. 

 

[tray]

Vaughn can catch fly balls hit within a small radius of where he is standing.  He can't get to anything else so he stomps after it, shags it down and throws it in.  My chocolate lab can play left  field if that is the criteria.  Here, fetch.  Face it, Vaughn, like Eloy,  is never going to win a gold glove. He will only last out there as long as he drives in runs and hits the ball out of the park 30+ times a year.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, tray said:

Vaughn can catch fly balls hit within a small radius of where he is standing.  He can't get to anything else so he stomps after it, shags it down and throws it in.  My chocolate lab can play left  field if that is the criteria.  Here, fetch.  Face it, Vaughn, like Eloy,  is never going to win a gold glove. He will only last out there as long as he drives in runs and hits the ball out of the park 30+ times a year.

I think they would be elated with 15-18 homers at this pace (so far) for 2021...going to have to make up for it in the summer months.

[Bob Sacamano]

2 hours ago, tray said:

Vaughn can catch fly balls hit within a small radius of where he is standing.  He can't get to anything else so he stomps after it, shags it down and throws it in.  My chocolate lab can play left  field if that is the criteria.  Here, fetch.  Face it, Vaughn, like Eloy,  is never going to win a gold glove. He will only last out there as long as he drives in runs and hits the ball out of the park 30+ times a year.

Which is perfectly fine. 

[tray]

Vaughn  has a chance right now to do it and I hope he does. He is fortunate to have that chance too. Look how long Collins waited to get a shot, even as a back-up.

[caulfield12]

4 hours ago, tray said:

Vaughn  has a chance right now to do it and I hope he does. He is fortunate to have that chance too. Look how long Collins waited to get a shot, even as a back-up.

Pretty substantial difference between Top 3 picks and expectations where Collins was drafted.

["The Kids Can Play"]

12 hours ago, tray said:

Vaughn can catch fly balls hit within a small radius of where he is standing.  He can't get to anything else so he stomps after it, shags it down and throws it in.  My chocolate lab can play left  field if that is the criteria.  Here, fetch.  Face it, Vaughn, like Eloy,  is never going to win a gold glove. He will only last out there as long as he drives in runs and hits the ball out of the park 30+ times a year.

So far in 18 games started he has caught 32 flyballs for zero errors and a 1.000 FP. I don't believe anybody here expects him to be a glove glover. However he has Robert in CF who can cover more ground than most CF's in baseball to make up for his limited OF coverage. As far as only lasting if he hits 30 plus HR's and drives in plenty of runs, that is the whole reason we want him in left. If he doesn't do that, then we have a bigger problem, because Hahn picked him with the #3 overall pick in 2019. 

[Chick Mercedes]

12 hours ago, tray said:

Vaughn can catch fly balls hit within a small radius of where he is standing.  He can't get to anything else so he stomps after it, shags it down and throws it in.  My chocolate lab can play left  field if that is the criteria.  Here, fetch.  Face it, Vaughn, like Eloy,  is never going to win a gold glove. He will only last out there as long as he drives in runs and hits the ball out of the park 30+ times a year.

If he can do that without kicking the ball around and landing himself in the hospital, we upgraded. Sign me up.

[CentralChamps21]

1B/LF/RF are positions where most of your value comes from your offense. Someone like Garcia or Hamilton can't possibly supply enough added defensive value to make up for the downgrade in offense. Vaughn has gotten his feet wet to the point that he should be in LF every day until both Robert and Eloy are back.

[harkness99]

his defense so far is good enough.. as long as he is a productive hitter.  Which obviously remains to be seen.

Edited May 7, 2021 by harkness99

[ChiSox59]

I'd say the defense has been better than "good enough".  He's looked comfortable, and as far as I am concerned, he should be our LF moving forward.  

[raBBit]

28 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I'd say the defense has been better than "good enough".  He's looked comfortable, and as far as I am concerned, he should be our LF moving forward.  

I wouldn't go as far as he's looked comfortable, but he hasn't screwed up and he hasn't been a rollercoaster. Honestly, he hasn't been challenged too much but he's looked better than Eloy. He seems like a mature kid. He had no issues or confusion when it come to giving way to Robert and even TA. I think he knows he's in the lineup for his bat. Know you role, know your worth. Once the power comes with this guy everyone will love him and he's a far more valuable player in LF than at 1B. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

1 minute ago, raBBit said:

I wouldn't go as far as he's looked comfortable, but he hasn't screwed up and he hasn't been a rollercoaster. Honestly, he hasn't been challenged too much but he's looked better than Eloy. He seems like a mature kid. He had no issues or confusion when it come to giving way to Robert and even TA. I think he knows he's in the lineup for his bat. Know you role, know your worth. Once the power comes with this guy everyone will love him and he's a far more valuable player in LF than at 1B. 

Do you think  he is the LF going forward and Eloy is moved to DH?  What're your expectations when everyone is back and healthy.

[raBBit]

1 minute ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Do you think  he is the LF going forward and Eloy is moved to DH?  What're your expectations when everyone is back and healthy.

It's too early to say at this point. I think the Sox will make their approach with Eloy as soon as he's nearing a rehab stint. That's with respect to whether Eloy plays the field this year at all. To me, I would think there is a strong chance they may just bring him back as a DH only. 

Regardless, if Mercedes is for real and Eloy has a smooth recovery, the Sox will have 4 guys for 3 spots in Abreu/Eloy/Vaughn/Mercedes for 1B/LF/DH. Of course not an "issue" but worth considering. It seems like both the Cubs and the Sox were unwilling to play Eloy in RF as he's had at least one and possibly a couple throwing arm related injuries as a pro. Would they play Vaughn in RF? They're working Sheets out there now.

No matter how it shakes out in 2021, the Sox likely are limited to left-handed bats for RF with DH, 1B, LF, CF, 2B & SS all set for the future with a righty. Not to get ahead of things, but you almost wonder if they'd be willing to move one of the "core" pieces to rejumble their asset holdings and open the door to get more left-handed. Seems like they were making a point of dangling Madrigal this offseason and I am sure that was a factor in that approach. 

[harkness99]

with all the injuries this year... i think it greatly increases the chance that eloy moves to Dh....

 

 

[caulfield12]

10 minutes ago, raBBit said:

It's too early to say at this point. I think the Sox will make their approach with Eloy as soon as he's nearing a rehab stint. That's with respect to whether Eloy plays the field this year at all. To me, I would think there is a strong chance they may just bring him back as a DH only. 

Regardless, if Mercedes is for real and Eloy has a smooth recovery, the Sox will have 4 guys for 3 spots in Abreu/Eloy/Vaughn/Mercedes for 1B/LF/DH. Of course not an "issue" but worth considering. It seems like both the Cubs and the Sox were unwilling to play Eloy in RF as he's had at least one and possibly a couple throwing arm related injuries as a pro. Would they play Vaughn in RF? They're working Sheets out there now.

No matter how it shakes out in 2021, the Sox likely are limited to left-handed bats for RF with DH, 1B, LF, CF, 2B & SS all set for the future with a righty. Not to get ahead of things, but you almost wonder if they'd be willing to move one of the "core" pieces to rejumble their asset holdings and open the door to get more left-handed. Seems like they were making a point of dangling Madrigal this offseason and I am sure that was a factor in that approach. 

The last paragraph sounds exactly like Lillian, but the gist is pretty much accurate.

We will see if Mercedes can get going again on offense with the lateness for Chicago traffic benching and now mostly sitting for the better part of a week almost.

[joejoesox]

12 minutes ago, harkness99 said:

with all the injuries this year... i think it greatly increases the chance that eloy moves to Dh....

 

 

we will have an opening in RF next year.  either Eloy or Vaughn moves over, are you talking about this year?  I don't think we will see Eloy this year. could be wrong, but I would bet they're gonna hold him over til 2022 unless he miraculously comes back way ahead of schedule which is unlikely

[raBBit]

31 minutes ago, joesaiditstrue said:

we will have an opening in RF next year.  either Eloy or Vaughn moves over, are you talking about this year?  I don't think we will see Eloy this year. could be wrong, but I would bet they're gonna hold him over til 2022 unless he miraculously comes back way ahead of schedule which is unlikely

Eloy's injury is not all that complicated. He should be back unless he has a setback in his recovery. That said, there is definitely risk with Eloy in any recovery given his history. My concern with Eloy is more that his power will be zapped as he rebuilds his strength. 

[soxguy456]

I really don't want to see an outfield with Vaughn and Eloy at the corners. Especially in the playoffs. Eloy finds ways to get hurt. Keep him at DH and maybe let him eventually try first. But I think you need to remember he hurt himself sliding into home for no reason at the end of the regular season which ended up hurting us against Oakland as well. Does the risk of having him in the field outweigh the reward? He's a hitter, let him hit. 

[joejoesox]

20 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Eloy's injury is not all that complicated. He should be back unless he has a setback in his recovery. That said, there is definitely risk with Eloy in any recovery given his history. My concern with Eloy is more that his power will be zapped as he rebuilds his strength. 

well that's good news, I've only read that it's unlikely he would be back

[Perfect Vision]

1 hour ago, raBBit said:

It's too early to say at this point. I think the Sox will make their approach with Eloy as soon as he's nearing a rehab stint. That's with respect to whether Eloy plays the field this year at all. To me, I would think there is a strong chance they may just bring him back as a DH only. 

Regardless, if Mercedes is for real and Eloy has a smooth recovery, the Sox will have 4 guys for 3 spots in Abreu/Eloy/Vaughn/Mercedes for 1B/LF/DH. Of course not an "issue" but worth considering. It seems like both the Cubs and the Sox were unwilling to play Eloy in RF as he's had at least one and possibly a couple throwing arm related injuries as a pro. Would they play Vaughn in RF? They're working Sheets out there now.

No matter how it shakes out in 2021, the Sox likely are limited to left-handed bats for RF with DH, 1B, LF, CF, 2B & SS all set for the future with a righty. Not to get ahead of things, but you almost wonder if they'd be willing to move one of the "core" pieces to rejumble their asset holdings and open the door to get more left-handed. Seems like they were making a point of dangling Madrigal this offseason and I am sure that was a factor in that approach. 

Moving Eloy to DH seems like a no-brainer to me.  It sounds like he's worked hard on his defense and wants to play the field, but there's no denying that he is a below average defender and plays the position with a recklessness that makes him vulnerable to injury.  It's one thing to have a great defender who plays somewhat recklessly and is therefore injury prone (i.e. Aaron Rowand), who you put back out there when healthy and hope for the best.  It's something else entirely when the player is a poor defender to begin with and is also reckless.

Mercedes has been a boost to the team but he should be dealt this offseason.