White Sox are still a World Series Contender

[vilehoopster]

For all you guys using Eloy's injury to justify all the complaints you been making all spring is just total BS: 

The owner is too cheap; Hahn's an idiot; LaRussa's too old and a idiot for playing Vaughn in LF  or for other reasons. . .  or

Why didn't we get more depth, especially at starting pitching . . . or

Why is our drafting (or if you please, spending money on Latin players) and minor league development so terrible?

The bottom line is the White Sox are World Series contenders, without Eloy or if he returns, the Sox are still World Series contenders; and I said this before, that's all you can realistically and reasonably ask of ownership and management. 

First of all, can we quit calling Eloy an idiot and implying he should be fined for trying to make that catch? Every ballplayer in that situation is gonna try to make that catch; that's the kind of catch that gets you on the Sports Center highlights for that night. Of course he's gonna go after it; anyone would. A player in the minors or majors; any high school or college player; hell, I'm in my 60's and in my softball league, I'd have gone after it. He was at the fence, had his right hand on the fence and had it measured. He's gonna go after it. I have no idea how he got hurt. I guess he is just made of glass, but it's absolutely crazy to tell him he can't play left field or any where because he might get hurt. He's been hurt running the bases; he's been hurting celebrating, he could choke tonight eating chicken. Should he never run the bases, or celebrate, or eat chicken. You guys are letting your disappointment get the better of you and attacking a player who was doing his best to try to improve and win. You can't play sports worrying about getting hurt. It's a sports cliche, but it is a cliche because it's true: The fastest way to get injured is by playing not to get injured. Plus, I wonder why Eloy might want to make that play; why would making a catch like that, even in ST, be so important to him? Hummm? Would it be he was trying to shut up, at least for a while, his critics who bash him LF play on this board and now in the press? You think that might have played into why he wanted to bring back that ball so badly?? Of course it did. 

Next, on to the injury thing, again can we stop the over-worrying about injuries. Now people are saying that Vaughn shouldn't play LF because might get injured or even more stupid, he might get Robert injured. He might, but he could and Robert could get injured in a myriad number of ways. Do we wrap them in bubble wrap and sit them on the bench? You try to put the best team on the field to give you the best chance to win. You guys using this as a complaint, it's just stupid. You're disappointed and pissed off about Eloy's injury, so you're gonna find anything possibly to b**** about. I think Vaughn in LF is a good move. We give up some defense to try the best way possible to make up for the lost offense. Plus, all you guys bitching about Eloy's terrible defense, can't tell me that Vaughn is gonna be that much worse. All you guys, the entire point of you complaints was that Eloy was barely better than a  little leaguer (you know, like what you used to say about Avi Garcia in RF). For all you guys, and there are many of you, who have been saying that, how can Vaughn would be that much worse. Again, you're just bitchin' to b**** because you're upset and pissed off. 

Next, the drafting and Latin player development thing. If we ever needed them, it really looks (and I know it's only ST) like our draft choices are really starting to come through more than they ever have, and again, when we really needed them. Rodon has looked great. Collins has looked great and that's why Vaughn can play in LF. And then there's Vaughn; he's looking rather above average. So, I think that management has done of pretty good job of drafting and having player ready to contribute. Robert and Abreu as example of good Latin players? 

All the complaining about not getting another starter. I think the funniest, most ironic poster on this board is the guy that keep complaining about Dylan Cease, how he has no control and is walking too many. What has Cease given up this ST? I think it's one run. I liked the post where the guy compared Cease to Musgrove after people where complaining about not getting him; that was pretty funny. And you're right; Rodon, we can't depend on hit; he has been a total fail so far. In reality, he's looking a lot better than our 5th pitcher. Now I know Rodon still could get hurt and Cease could go all to hell. But right now, the "we need to sign more pitching depth" complaint looks pretty sad. To me, I think it's our starting pitching (let us pray on avoiding injuries) that's going to compensate for the lose of Eloy. And if we do get a starting pitcher injured, if only we had some one or some two like Kopech and Crochet to fill in as a starter (another failed and not developed draft choice). 

I posted a message with this same message about a month ago. The complaining on this site is ridiculous and petty. Please get you emotions and disappointment under control. Again, we have a World Series contender. Yes, losing Eloy really hurts, but look at our line up; it's still amazing: Moncada, Anderson, Abreu, Robert, Vaughn, Grandal; put that with Madrigal and Eaton and Collins and the White Sox are going to score a lot of runs, a lot of runs; and with our starting pitching and bullpen. There's no reasonable way to deny that the Sox are still very much a World Series contender.

But if all you did was read this message board the last few days with all the bitching and complaining, you'd never know it. 

 

[Jack Parkman]

You're wrong. They're a borderline playoff team without Eloy. Fangraphs has them at 84 wins and I'd say that's about right, plus or minus a a few. 

[DoUEvenShift]

3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

You're wrong. They're a borderline playoff team without Eloy. Fangraphs has them at 84 wins and I'd say that's about right, plus or minus a a few. 

How do you get through life being so pessimistic? 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

We may be the 2nd best AL team still along with the Twins.  The AL is bad. Our lineup is still Top 5 in AL, our Bullpen is #1, our big question is backend of rotation.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Squirmin' for Yermin

[raBBit]

34 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

You're wrong. They're a borderline playoff team without Eloy. Fangraphs has them at 84 wins and I'd say that's about right, plus or minus a a few. 

Let's put money / sig bet on the line. I take the over 84. You take the under.

[Jack Parkman]

38 minutes ago, DoUEvenShift said:

How do you get through life being so pessimistic? 

It's literally the only way I can get through life. Much less stressful to have low expectations and get pleasantly surprised than to be constantly disappointed. 

I've tried the other way and it wasn't working for me. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[Greydawgfan1]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

It's literally the only way I can get through life. Much less stressful to have low expectations and get pleasantly surprised than to be constantly disappointed. 

That is literally the worst way to live life. Who are you kenwo?

[Jack Parkman]

Just now, Greydawgfan1 said:

That is literally the worst way to live life. Who are you kenwo?

It's not for me. I'm sick of toxic positivity culture. 

Disappointment is just the worst. 

[ChiSox59]

4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

It's literally the only way I can get through life. Much less stressful to have low expectations and get pleasantly surprised than to be constantly disappointed. 

I've tried the other way and it wasn't working for me. 

Maybe don't try to drag everyone else down with your negativity.  

[turnin' two]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

It's not for me. I'm sick of toxic positivity culture. 

Disappointment is just the worst. 

LOL. I'm with you.  I expect the sox to go 2-160 this year, I figure they'll beat the Royals once and the Tigers once.  Maybe I can see 3 wins with one against Baltimore...

[Greydawgfan1]

3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

It's not for me. I'm sick of toxic positivity culture. 

Disappointment is just the worst. 

Because constant negativity is better for you 

[Orlando]

52 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

You're wrong. They're a borderline playoff team without Eloy. Fangraphs has them at 84 wins and I'd say that's about right, plus or minus a a few. 

I know I’m usually optimistic but I agree with this. I hope they make the playoffs but they aren’t a guaranteed playoff team in my sad opinion.

[Jack Parkman]

10 hours ago, Greydawgfan1 said:

Because constant negativity is better for you 

Saying that I think the Sox are an 84-87 win team isn't negative. It's grounded in reality. It's where the projections have them. 

If I said I thought they were going to win 75 games, that's being negative. 

 

Could the Sox win more games? Sure. But I surely don't expect them to. 

 

BTW I thought they were in the 88-92 range with Eloy. 

 

There's a ton of upside in all areas but I'm not counting on that potential to be realized until it actually shows itself for a couple months. 

The rotation is where all of the question marks are. They're still going to be a solid offense, rather than one of the best in baseball. 

Edited March 30, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[raBBit]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Saying that I think the Sox are an 84-87 win team isn't negative. It's grounded in reality. It's where the projections have them. 

If I said I thought they were going to win 75 games, that's being negative. 

 

Could the Sox win more games? Sure. But I surely don't expect them to. 

 

BTW I thought they were in the 88-92 range with Eloy. 

 

There's a ton of upside in the bullpen and rotation but I'm not counting on that potential to be realized until it actually shows itself for a couple months. 

But you're unwilling to bet on it?

[Greydawgfan1]

3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Saying that I think the Sox are an 84-87 win team isn't negative. It's grounded in reality. It's where the projections have them. 

If I said I thought they were going to win 75 games, that's being negative. 

 

Could the Sox win more games? Sure. But I surely don't expect them to. 

 

BTW I thought they were in the 88-92 range with Eloy. 

 

There's a ton of upside in the bullpen and rotation but I'm not counting on that potential to be realized until it actually shows itself for a couple months. 

The rotation is where all of the question marks are. They're still going to be a solid offense, rather than one of the best in baseball. 

You said being pessimistic is the only way you can get through life

[Kyyle23]

33 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Saying that I think the Sox are an 84-87 win team isn't negative. It's grounded in reality. It's where the projections have them. 

If I said I thought they were going to win 75 games, that's being negative. 

 

Could the Sox win more games? Sure. But I surely don't expect them to. 

 

BTW I thought they were in the 88-92 range with Eloy. 

 

There's a ton of upside in the bullpen and rotation but I'm not counting on that potential to be realized until it actually shows itself for a couple months. 

The rotation is where all of the question marks are. They're still going to be a solid offense, rather than one of the best in baseball. 

All too often you conflate negativity with realism on this board

[Jack Parkman]

42 minutes ago, raBBit said:

But you're unwilling to bet on it?

I'd be willing to if I had the money to lose. 

What I'm saying is that a lot of your hopes come from unrealized potential rather than what is. 

A lot of the Sox players don't have a track record that makes me feel comfortable yet. 

I can list those players on one hand. 

Anderson, Giolito, Abreu, Hendriks and that's about it. I really like Moncada and Robert but I can't say for sure that they're going to be good this year. Moncada's only done it once and Robert only has for a month. 

I will not deny that the Sox have a metric shit ton of potential, because they do. But it's only that until the potential becomes reality. 

As we all know about the law of averages, some guys we don't expect to be bad will underperform, some guys we didn't expect anything from will have good seasons. Some players will get injured. (as we've already seen) 

I expect them to be in the playoff race deep into September but I'm not positive they'll get in. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[Jack Parkman]

11 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

All too often you conflate negativity with realism on this board

Are you saying that ZiPS and PECOTA are really pessimistic? 

I think they're a pretty objective view on the most likely outcome. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'd be willing to if I had the money to lose. 

What I'm saying is that a lot of your hopes come from unrealized potential rather than what is. 

A lot of the Sox players don't have a track record that makes me feel comfortable yet. 

I can list those players on one hand. 

Anderson, Giolito, Abreu, Hendriks and that's about it. I really like Moncada and Robert but I can't say for sure that they're going to be good this year. Moncada's only done it once and Robert only has for a month. 

I will not deny that the Sox have a metric shit ton of potential, because they do. But it's only that until the potential becomes reality. 

As we all know about the law of averages, some guys we don't expect to be bad will underperform, some guys we didn't expect anything from will have good seasons. Some players will get injured. (as we've already seen) 

I don't think you are wrong. It's a realistic view. It's your opinion grounded in fact. Eloy was poised for a huge year. Now we get more uncertainties playing more with Collins , Vaughn , Yermin and whoever else might make the team who wasn't on it last year.

Really hoping the pitching carries the team and the aforementioned  untested guys can prove more valuable than EE,and Mazara and Moncada himself from last year.

[raBBit]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Are you saying that ZiPS and PECOTA are really pessimistic? 

I think they're a pretty objective view on the most likely outcome. 

Why do you only use those two? Why don't you use an average all of the prognosticators? What about Vegas?

Edited March 29, 2021 by raBBit

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, raBBit said:

Why do you only use those two? Why don't you use an average all of the prognosticators? What about Vegas?

Vegas sets their number so that they win either way. Vegas's number is about making money, not about the most likely scenario. 

[Kyyle23]

5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Are you saying that ZiPS and PECOTA are really pessimistic? 

I think they're a pretty objective view on the most likely outcome. 

I'm saying you are choosing to view that data with a negative outlook.  Teams over perform and underperform their projections every year due to many factors.   This season hasn't even started, we have no idea if help is acquired down the line, a lot can change.  

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Vegas sets their number so that they win either way. Vegas's number is about making money, not about the most likely scenario. 

Which means it's right in the middle. If you're every wondering about projections, use Vegas.  They're the smartest.

[SonofaRoache]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Maybe don't try to drag everyone else down with your negativity.  

Misery loves c....... 

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Which means it's right in the middle. If you're every wondering about projections, use Vegas.  They're the smartest.

They're at 90.5 right now. 

Like it wouldn't shock me if they won 91 games anyway just because of the potential on this club. 

It wouldn't shock me if they won 86 games either. 

There are plenty of reasons to be optimistic, don't get me wrong. 

For me, I tend to err on the slightly pessimistic side. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Jack Parkman