White Sox are still a World Series Contender

[Vulture]

Yeah my assessment has nothing to do with any of the horse shit moves the FO has made. Doesn’t really matter how you look at individual decisions. Tatis was one of the worst trades in the history of baseball for example. Better free agents could have been signed. Money was wasted in past years. However, I just look at the roster and coaching staff as currently constructed and none the less see a winner

[RagahRagah]

2 hours ago, Tony said:

Now when you say "logic".....you mean saying the Yankees will be much better than the Sox because "they are the Yankees" 

I know you desperately want to bang the "logic" drum but it's hard to take that seriously when you read the content of your "arguments" 

 You're so full of shit. 

No, I do not mean that and I retracted that. And technically that is not even what I had said. Can you acknowledge that in your next reply? I doubt you will. Because you probably are concerned more with being right than reaching a logical conclusion.

 And now you yourself are doing what you just said never happens here, and you are just complaining about what I said rather than making a counterpoint about the actual context I put into perspective.

I'm definitely not full of shit. And at the very least you obviously can't explain how and why.

I'm sorry if I sounded like a dick but there's no easy way to tell someone that they are wrong.  I'm not beating any drum, I'm simply telling the truth. And you proved it by failing to provide a counterpoint, failing to refute how what I said is based on logic, complaining about what I said without actually dissecting it, and then lashing out at me and ignoring the actual point I made.

Know why you have to do all that? Because you're wrong. Sorry.  Basically you're just attacking me while ignoring what I actually said. 

Edited March 31, 2021 by RagahRagah

[Tony]

28 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

No, I do not mean that and I retracted that. And technically that is not even what I had said. Can you acknowledge that in your next reply? I doubt you will. Because you probably are concerned more with being right than reaching a logical conclusion.

 And now you yourself are doing what you just said never happens here, and you are just complaining about what I said rather than making a counterpoint about the actual context I put into perspective.

I'm definitely not full of shit. And at the very least you obviously can't explain how and why.

I'm sorry if I sounded like a dick but there's no easy way to tell someone that they are wrong.  I'm not beating any drum, I'm simply telling the truth. And you proved it by failing to provide a counterpoint, failing to refute how what I said is based on logic, complaining about what I said without actually dissecting it, and then lashing out at me and ignoring the actual point I made.

Know why you have to do all that? Because you're wrong. Sorry.  Basically you're just attacking me while ignoring what I actually said. 

I went back and forth with you, giving examples of players from both the White Sox and Yankees on why your “logical premise” was insanely ignorant and WRONG. 
 

So you say you deal in only logic, but when someone calls you on, proves your point was based on complete idiocy, and you admit you were wrong...we’re all just supposed to be Ok we had to go through that exercise? No, it was a waste of time then, just like you’re a waste of time now. 
 

It’s same shit with you, over and over again. You beat your drum on how all you do is deal in “logic” but when someone calls you on it...we’re attacking your character and not your actual points. But history shows you’re just a liar and that’s not what happened at all. Don’t make me quote the posts to prove it. You’ll look like a bigger clown than you already are, which would be an impressive feet even for you. 
 

But you know what? You win. You pulled me once again. I know you aren’t worth the time, but my weakness is low hanging fruit and you provide it up on a platter. Sometimes I take the bait, and that’s my bad. I need to do a much better job of ignoring the trash.

[RagahRagah]

13 minutes ago, Tony said:

I went back and forth with you, giving examples of players from both the White Sox and Yankees on why your “logical premise” was insanely ignorant and WRONG. 
 

So you say you deal in only logic, but when someone calls you on, proves your point was based on complete idiocy, and you admit you were wrong...we’re all just supposed to be Ok we had to go through that exercise? No, it was a waste of time then, just like you’re a waste of time now. 
 

It’s same shit with you, over and over again. You beat your drum on how all you do is deal in “logic” but when someone calls you on it...we’re attacking your character and not your actual points. But history shows you’re just a liar and that’s not what happened at all. Don’t make me quote the posts to prove it. You’ll look like a bigger clown than you already are, which would be an impressive feet even for you. 
 

But you know what? You win. You pulled me once again. I know you aren’t worth the time, but my weakness is low hanging fruit and you provide it up on a platter. Sometimes I take the bait, and that’s my bad. I need to do a much better job of ignoring the trash.

Um... yes. Of course.  When someone admits they are wrong that is progress. 

 Do you actually not understand that everyone is wrong sometimes, no matter how smart or sensible? Do you realize... you are wrong sometimes? Arguing is always an exercise. So it's only worth it if... the person doesn't admit they are wrong? So therefore using your own rationale, no one should be "waste time" arguing with you either, no matter what. Especially if you admit you are wrong. 

You aren't making any semblance of sense whatsoever. On any level.

And no, you did not attack the argument I actually used as an example. You merely attacked me. Claiming I'm not logical is not enough. You have to prove your argument. 

 

Your Yankee example was a half truth as you misrepresented the argument. But I did retract what I said. If that is not good enough for you then what in theeeeeee fuck are you even going back and forth with me for? Do you really not understand how damn obtuse that is? If that is going to be the case and you will always trash me whether I am wrong or right, let me know right now so I can conclude you a are an attention seeking troll so I can put you on ignore right now.

If I can admit I'm wrong about something and you are STILL going to trash me and say it's not good enough, then what can I help you with??? And why would you bother responding? And don't you realize by that rationale you really can't converse with ANYONE???

Edited April 1, 2021 by RagahRagah

[VAfan]

2 hours ago, MeanJoeCrede said:

The "negative" posters most times aren't  wrong.

The "positive" posters most times aren't  wrong.

I can read Ragah and VaFan ( just 2 random examples, don't beat me up!) and know that I fall somewhere in between and don't feel the need to call either one of them out for being more positive or more negative than me. 

I think we can all agree that ownership and the front office have been less than perfect over the years, and maybe this year even moreso than others. 

I think we can all agree that this team is not perfect. There are strengths and weaknesses, alot of coulda woulda shouldas, arguably the most loaded and exciting we've had in years.

Can't we all just get along?

Thanks for citing me. 

One thing I don't do as a poster very often is get into back and forth with another poster. I did some with RayRay Sun earlier this offseason, but when you get into parsing what someone said arguments, it's pointless for everyone else reading the site and just clutters things up. 

I come off here as very optimistic, but mostly I'm just excited to see this Sox team play and get better.  

The question of the title of this thread cannot be answered about this Sox team yet, because there are too many young and inexperienced pieces. But ask it again in September and we should have a much clearer answer.  

[caulfield12]

5 hours ago, VAfan said:

Thanks for citing me. 

One thing I don't do as a poster very often is get into back and forth with another poster. I did some with RayRay Sun earlier this offseason, but when you get into parsing what someone said arguments, it's pointless for everyone else reading the site and just clutters things up. 

I come off here as very optimistic, but mostly I'm just excited to see this Sox team play and get better.  

The question of the title of this thread cannot be answered about this Sox team yet, because there are too many young and inexperienced pieces. But ask it again in September and we should have a much clearer answer.  

Well, the advantage of a much younger team is that they don't know they're NOT supposed to be there.  (Of course, we have an experienced now veteran core mostly 20-somethings and then Grandal/Abreu/Keuchel/Lynn/Hendriks.)  On paper, it's pretty darned close to the perfect balance.

Thinking about so many of our really young players that we've been talking about all off-season.

Between changing to Ventura in 2012 (re-set), we saw a mostly rookie-led pitching staff (outside of Sale and the other obvious names) compete for 90% of the season with the Tigers.

We also witnessed a completely different mindset on defense...so it's probably fair to say at least in the majority of examples that a coaching regime change can or often does have a positive impact, at least in the short-term.

 

In the end, missing Jimenez might be exactly the opportunity that Vaughn, Collins and even Mercedes needed.  Typically, young White Sox players have been blocked in competing years, but this is a completely different approach than we've seen for most of the last two decades, going all the way back to those late 90's teams with Konerko/Cameron, Ordonez, C-Lee, Durham and all the young pitching.

 

Edited April 1, 2021 by caulfield12

[South Side Hit Men]

4 hours ago, VAfan said:

Thanks for citing me. 

One thing I don't do as a poster very often is get into back and forth with another poster. I did some with RayRay Sun earlier this offseason, but when you get into parsing what someone said arguments, it's pointless for everyone else reading the site and just clutters things up. 

I come off here as very optimistic, but mostly I'm just excited to see this Sox team play and get better.  

The question of the title of this thread cannot be answered about this Sox team yet, because there are too many young and inexperienced pieces. But ask it again in September and we should have a much clearer answer.  

This is your best post, and one of the best of the off-season.I like reading others opinions and stating mine, but no need for people to get personal.

I hope that now that the season has started, we can all focus on White Sox baseball, and be kinder here, especially in the game threads which were unreadable in terms of negativity. No need to find a new villain or scapegoat in the Sox dugout, whether the Sox finish 100-62 or 80-82.

[CentralChamps21]

Sox ownership/management put together a team that has the ability to win the World Series if everything goes right.

The problem is that because of some excellent trades and extensions over the past few years, they were in a position to put together a team that doesn't need everything to go right to win the World Series, and failed to do so.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

Sox ownership/management put together a team that has the ability to win the World Series if everything goes right.

The problem is that because of some excellent trades and extensions over the past few years, they were in a position to put together a team that doesn't need everything to go right to win the World Series, and failed to do so.

The Padres have the much more difficult path...to get past the Dodgers, who’ve been to eight consecutive postseasons and just won a World Series and added Bauer, pushing Price and Gonsolin out of the rotation.  Because there’s so much that can go wrong in a wild card game, versus at least assuring themselves of a playoff series.

We had an Indians’ team basically waiving the white flag (minus trading Ramirez and Bieber) and a Twins’ team that was inert or inactive until  the final six weeks and could have crushed them with a Springer, Ozuna or Bauer signing.  Heck, just Cruz and Odorizzi would have been enough.

But no...we always leave such a thin margin for error, you’d almost believe all those rumors that JR is content with aiming for second place every season.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2021 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

39 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The Padres have the much more difficult path...to get past the Dodgers, who’ve been to eight consecutive postseasons and just won a World Series and added Bauer, pushing Price and Gonsolin out of the rotation.  Because there’s so much that can go wrong in a wild card game, versus at least assuring themselves of a playoff series.

We had an Indians’ team basically waiving the white flag (minus trading Ramirez and Bieber) and a Twins’ team that was inert or inactive until  the final six weeks and could have crushed them with a Springer, Ozuna or Bauer signing.  Heck, just Cruz and Odorizzi would have been enough.

But no...we always leave such a thin margin for error, you’d almost believe all those rumors that JR is content with aiming for second place every season.

 

 

I’ve said it before and will say it again. Cleveland’s projected win total right now is higher than it was in February of 2020.  If you’re expecting them to be a pushover, I think your awakening will be unpleasant.

[Kyyle23]

Well thank you for repeatedly telling us and then telling us that you are repeatedly telling us.  Appreciated

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Well thank you for repeatedly telling us and then telling us that you are repeatedly telling us.  Appreciated

Is there an official guide somewhere about which opinions it’s ok to say over and over and which aren’t? Obviously it’s ok to repeatedly say Cleveland is rebuilding but out of bounds to disagree when people repeat that point. I’d appreciate knowing where this list can be found.

[caulfield12]

22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I’ve said it before and will say it again. Cleveland’s projected win total right now is higher than it was in February of 2020.  If you’re expecting them to be a pushover, I think your awakening will be unpleasant.

No team in baseball develops pitching as well as Cleveland. The latest success story is Shane Bieber, who went from fourth-round draft pick to Cy Young winner in five years. They also have a third- (Aaron Civale) and 12th-round (Zach Plesac) draft pick in the rotation, and in recent years the club has helped Mike Clevinger and Corey Kluber go from unheralded trade pickup to ace starter. 

Cleveland's next breakout pitcher: Logan Allen. I am boldly predicting it. Cleveland acquired the lefty in the three-team Trevor Bauer/Yasiel Puig trade with the Padres and Reds, and he's impressed this spring after spending most of last season at the alternate site. Allen's velocity has been up to 97 mph and his slider is sharper as well. He's struck out 18 and allowed one run in 14 spring innings. 

Allen, 23, shed 35 pounds over the winter and he fully bought into the team's pitching program. MLB.com's Mandy Bell has more: 

So, how exactly did he put himself in this position? Aside from his diet that allowed him to enter camp in great shape, Allen said that the  Indianssuggested some tweaks based on physical movements and analytics when they were breaking down his mechanics. He started working at the Indians' alternate training site last season and continued all through the offseason. Not only did he quickly pick up on how to better his delivery, he's mastered how to repeat it. 

Cleveland has not had a left-handed pitcher make a start since Ryan Merritt in August 2017, if you can believe that, and Allen will surely end the no-lefty streak this year. He's poised to do more than be a token southpaw though. Allen's stuff is better than ever, and he's refined his delivery and improved his control. Simply put, he looks like a breakout Cleveland pitcher now. 

The bold prediction is Allen throws over 120 innings with a sub-3.50 ERA and more than a strikeout per inning in 2021. As always, Cleveland is loaded is pitching, though the team will have to monitor workloads and build everyone up carefully after last season. That will create a need for innings. The bet here is once Allen gets his foot in the door, he's in the rotation for good.

https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/baseball/news/indians-logan-allen-likely-to-begin-year-in-rotation/

 

Now, if he becomes the pitcher Brady Aiken was supposed to be, we can all criticize Preller for dealing Allen.

 

[caulfield12]

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Is there an official guide somewhere about which opinions it’s ok to say over and over and which aren’t? Obviously it’s ok to repeatedly say Cleveland is rebuilding but out of bounds to disagree when people repeat that point. I’d appreciate knowing where this list can be found.

Now if you can fix their bullpen, get consistency out of McKenzie and find a couple more 800+ ops bats...not to mention they went 8-2 against the Sox last year.

Edited April 1, 2021 by caulfield12

[Two-Gun Pete]

2 hours ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

Sox ownership/management put together a team that has the ability to win the World Series...

...if everything goes right.

See?

We can all be excited about the underlined part of your post, while ALSO recognizing the bolded part.

When someone posts about the bolded, they're not "negative," or whatever other dimestore analysis Pollyanna-types use to make themselves feel better. 

I'm excited about the potential of this team. I also think that they made the margin of error thinner than it had to be; they didn't need to spend a pile of money to widen their margin, IMO. They simply had to make better decisions with certain aspects of the team this offseason.

That said, here's looking forward to 2021 with anticipation!

[Kyyle23]

14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Is there an official guide somewhere about which opinions it’s ok to say over and over and which aren’t? Obviously it’s ok to repeatedly say Cleveland is rebuilding but out of bounds to disagree when people repeat that point. I’d appreciate knowing where this list can be found.

Oh did someone disagree with you when you told them that you already told them? Missed that

im sure you can find that guide somewhere.  

[Balta1701]

15 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Oh did someone disagree with you when you told them that you already told them? Missed that

im sure you can find that guide somewhere.  

Look, I get that the “Hahn had a crappy offseason no he didn’t” debate is played out, but this was on topic, related to a different team, brought up by another poster, and my reply referenced a specific stat. In response, the same poster added a couple more baseball topic posts. If you want to play topic police in every thread, then yeah we need to know which subjects are out of bounds, because otherwise I’ll keep accidentally talking about baseball.

[Kyyle23]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Look, I get that the “Hahn had a crappy offseason no he didn’t” debate is played out, but this was on topic, related to a different team, brought up by another poster, and my reply referenced a specific stat. In response, the same poster added a couple more baseball topic posts. If you want to play topic police in every thread, then yeah we need to know which subjects are out of bounds, because otherwise I’ll keep accidentally talking about baseball.

Did I say something was out of bounds?  I missed that while playing police my bad 

[SonofaRoache]

I feel like I just walked into the ending of a movie with a crazy plot twist ending leaving the 3 main characters dead. 

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

I feel like I just walked into the ending of a movie with a crazy plot twist ending leaving the 3 main characters dead. 

Well, fortunately, everyone gets to come back as zombies repeating James Earl Jones speeches.

KyYle The Enforcer/Punisher is more fun.

Edited April 1, 2021 by caulfield12

[Kyyle23]

5 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

I feel like I just walked into the ending of a movie with a crazy plot twist ending leaving the 3 main characters dead. 

 

[SonofaRoache]

32 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

 

This is what I envisioned lol. Thanks!