Garrett Crochet conversion to starter in 2022 Thread

[caulfield12]

All posts about current role/innings pitched expectations/strategies for working on secondary pitches in side work vs. high-leverage relief situations/possible post-season or Winter Ball "stretching out."

Post/discuss here.

Theoretical 2021 innings target: 70-80ish?

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

He won't be a starting pitcher, ever.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

He wont have enough inning, and will dominate in the bullpen to where you can't move him out of it (ala Hader).

[Jack Parkman]

6 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

All posts about current role/innings pitched expectations/strategies for working on secondary pitches in side work vs. high-leverage relief situations/possible post-season or Winter Ball "stretching out."

Post/discuss here.

Theoretical 2021 innings target: 70-80ish?

You're forgetting potential postseason innings. If they go to the ALCS then it helps immensely. 

[Jack Parkman]

5 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

He wont have enough inning, and will dominate in the bullpen to where you can't move him out of it (ala Hader).

Then why spend $54M on Hendriks? 

[ChiSoxJon]

Gio, Kuechel, Lynn, Cease, Kopech, Crotchet is unfair

Kopech and Crotchet ready to dominate in time for the exits of Kuechel and Lynn

[caulfield12]

25 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Then why spend $54M on Hendriks? 

Not to mention the presence of Bummer from the left-hand side...well, it’s the Sale to the pen in 2010 and 2011 argument.

Sale went 71 innings in 2011, 192 and 214 over a three year stretch.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

1 hour ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

He won't be a starting pitcher, ever.

They're gonna waste a special talent.  

[Timmy U]

Every pitcher in baseball is down innings this year, so every starter will be watched, occasionally skipped.  That means an unprecedented number of bullpen innings across the majors.  I think Crochet does get to 80 innings this year.  Kopech too.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

11 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

They're gonna waste a special talent.  

yup.

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

He won't be a starting pitcher, ever.

I worry the same for Kopech. If Kopech doesn't end up in the rotation at some point this year, I don't think he ever does, and that's just a waste of both him and Crochet. 

If they're not going to develop both guys properly, they're more valuable in a trade to a team that will. 

Edited April 1, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[Jose Abreu]

17 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Every pitcher in baseball is down innings this year, so every starter will be watched, occasionally skipped.  That means an unprecedented number of bullpen innings across the majors.  I think Crochet does get to 80 innings this year.  Kopech too.

And the injuries will probably skyrocket too. It's gonna be a real struggle for every team other than maybe the Dodgers to find competent arms to get them through the season. The White Sox having a bunch of multi-inning relievers is very helpful in that regard

[ptatc]

3 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

He won't be a starting pitcher, ever.

He will be a full time starter in 2023. Barring significant injuries, of course.

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Not to mention the presence of Bummer from the left-hand side...well, it’s the Sale to the pen in 2010 and 2011 argument.

Sale went 71 innings in 2011, 192 and 214 over a three year stretch.

Llet's not forget - the jump from 71 innings to 192 in 2012 almost didn't happen. Sale had arm soreness and went on the IL for a month in late April,  and had to overturn a table yelling at Kenny Williams to get back into the rotation after they publicly announced he was the closer permanently. Chris Sale shows that this plan was on a knife edge, and had Williams not gone along with Sale's tantrum - Moncada is starting at 2b for Boston today.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ct-xpm-2012-05-15-sns-rt-bbo-white-sox-playerwatchmtze85f1bw1s7-20120515-story.html

[ptatc]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Llet's not forget - the jump from 71 innings to 192 in 2012 almost didn't happen. Sale had arm soreness and went on the IL for a month in late April,  and had to overturn a table yelling at Kenny Williams to get back into the rotation after they publicly announced he was the closer permanently. Chris Sale shows that this plan was on a knife edge, and had Williams not gone along with Sale's tantrum - Moncada is starting at 2b for Boston today.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ct-xpm-2012-05-15-sns-rt-bbo-white-sox-playerwatchmtze85f1bw1s7-20120515-story.html

I don't think the situations are really comparable though. Sale may have only had 71 innings but he had a history as a full time starter in college. He knew his routine and had built up innings as a starter. Crochet doesn't have any of that. His process will be an extra year, if he proves he can handle a starter load. There is still a question of that because he has never done it.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I don't think the situations are really comparable though. Sale may have only had 71 innings but he had a history as a full time starter in college. He knew his routine and had built up innings as a starter. Crochet doesn't have any of that. His process will be an extra year, if he proves he can handle a starter load. There is still a question of that because he has never done it.

You continue to do an excellent job for explaining why this decision likely leaves him permanently in the bullpen.

[ptatc]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

You continue to do an excellent job for explaining why this decision likely leaves him permanently in the bullpen.

I think it is a possibility. However, I don't think its some grand conspiracy theory that the FO has planned this all along. They have no idea and neither does anyone else, if he can handle it. I think they hope he can and will progress him as if he will be. It's not a secret the starters are more valuable than relievers.

[ChiSox59]

2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I worry the same for Kopech. If Kopech doesn't end up in the rotation at some point this year, I don't think he ever does, and that's just a waste of both him and Crochet. 

If they're not going to develop both guys properly, they're more valuable in a trade to a team that will. 

Kopech will be in this rotation by July at the latest.  Rodon and Lopez aren't lasting the season as the #5.  

[Balta1701]

8 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I think it is a possibility. However, I don't think its some grand conspiracy theory that the FO has planned this all along. They have no idea and neither does anyone else, if he can handle it. I think they hope he can and will progress him as if he will be. It's not a secret the starters are more valuable than relievers.

No, it's not a grand conspiracy. It's a sucker bet. You might get lucky and win once, and convince yourself it's a great idea because it didn't go terribly. You do it a few times and the casino takes your house.

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Kopech will be in this rotation by July at the latest.  Rodon and Lopez aren't lasting the season as the #5.  

My problem with that statement is that Kopech is not streched out at all. If someone goes down for under 3 weeks, there's literally not enough time to get him ready to pitch 5 innings. If that happens maybe they even send him down to get his work in, and give Lopez or Stiever 3 starts while Kopech stretches out for 4 innings. If it is "oh Rodon's shoulder is sore, we're going to put him on the 10 day IL", they'll use Lopez for 1 start and Mr. Offday for another.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

9 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Kopech will be in this rotation by July at the latest.  Rodon and Lopez aren't lasting the season as the #5.  

But how if we keep pitching him 1 inning?

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

I'd love to hear @Y2Jimmy0 on his thoughts with Crochet and Kopech 

[ptatc]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

No, it's not a grand conspiracy. It's a sucker bet. You might get lucky and win once, and convince yourself it's a great idea because it didn't go terribly. You do it a few times and the casino takes your house.

Are you saying that Crochet can't become a start because they start him in the bullpen? I would disagree. Many pitchers have started in the pen and gone on to be starters.

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

My problem with that statement is that Kopech is not streched out at all. If someone goes down for under 3 weeks, there's literally not enough time to get him ready to pitch 5 innings. If that happens maybe they even send him down to get his work in, and give Lopez or Stiever 3 starts while Kopech stretches out for 4 innings. If it is "oh Rodon's shoulder is sore, we're going to put him on the 10 day IL", they'll use Lopez for 1 start and Mr. Offday for another.

I think you answered your own question in this post.  If someone goes down, Lopez fills in while Kopech gets stretched out.  

Another option would be piggybacking a mixture of Lopez/Kopech/Crochet to stretch out Kopech more slowly until he's ready to go 5+.  

I am confident the Sox still see Kopech as a SP, and while I hate what they're doing I refuse to believe he won't be starting at some point this season.  

[ptatc]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

My problem with that statement is that Kopech is not streched out at all. If someone goes down for under 3 weeks, there's literally not enough time to get him ready to pitch 5 innings. If that happens maybe they even send him down to get his work in, and give Lopez or Stiever 3 starts while Kopech stretches out for 4 innings. If it is "oh Rodon's shoulder is sore, we're going to put him on the 10 day IL", they'll use Lopez for 1 start and Mr. Offday for another.

Not yet. If they stick to their plan of him progressing to a multi-inning reliever, he will be.