Twins/White Sox in similar positions...

[caulfield12]

Arguably, the Twins’ two best (or at least most important) players in Buxton and Berrios have two seasons before hitting free agency.

Same with the White Sox with Giolito (3 years) and Anderson (4 years).

With the money being spent on extensions now reaching the hundreds of millions, the fate of these players will determine the next four seasons.

 

If the Twins can’t retain either player, then they’re going to be stuck with Josh Donaldson and paying him $29-37 million in his age 37-38 years in 2023 and 2024 (buyout year, $8 million.)

They have no choice (especially with Nelson Cruz hitting his age limits) to be “all in” these two seasons.

 

Assuming JR is not going to fork over the extension money for Giolito or TA, we have to hope our own veterans (Abreu, Grandal and Keuchel) can keep producing and we can beat the Twins on the Tier B trade market and especially beat them on the margins with value-oriented moves...which haven’t been a Hahn specialty.

The White Sox definitely have the core of young players with the most potential (Robert, Moncada, Vaughn, Kopech, Crochet, Jimenez) but nothing is guaranteed.

And the one thing I don’t like about the Lynn move is we might have to turn around and replace him, too.  If TLR is still around at season’s end, you like your chances to retain him...but he’s also going to soon join a race against Father Time.

At this point, though, it seems like we still are 2-3 players behind the Yankees...and, if you look closely at last season, we struggled mightily with most of the above .500 teams (especially Cleveland) and beat up on the weaklings.  It’s the same dilemma the Twins face, with their complete inability to break through in the playoffs.

 

The thing I worry (most) about is that ownership and Hahn/KW are on a totally different page...that we’re more concerned with proving TLR can still manage than beating the Twins.  When I think of the Padres, every single move they make is about finishing ahead of the Dodgers.  Not sure we have found that same level of laser focus, simply preferring to just “out-talent” them.  It’s essentially going to be up to TLR to create that unique identity...as we’ve already come close to blowing as many 7th inning leads as the 2002-04 Twins and 2014-15 Royals on the first weekend of the season.

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

https://www.coveringthecorner.com/2021/3/29/22357522/i-enter-the-season-caring-less-than-ever
On the other hand, not sure VAFAN and Balta can comfort this Indians’ fan.

The obvious answer to me is their finances. Dolan gives an interview every year during spring training griping about how the team is losing money. How small markets cannot afford big rosters, and how their "financial flexibility" will help them compete in the long run. Ignoring the fact that I struggle to feel pity for a man who’s family amassed a billion dollar fortune, and that despite the team "losing money" annually the team manages to increase in value like clockwork: I struggle to believe the team is actually losing money all that often. The teams’ expenses changes by tens of millions of dollars every single year. Either the Dolans are injecting tens of millions of dollars regularly (which I doubt because, as Paul points out: his family does not have other business to inject the team with this kind of cash), or the team has a break-even point higher than they would lead us to believe.

“Which leads me to this: I do not believe this ownership values winning more than their bottom line, and I also believe they are lying to us about their finances. I do not believe Dolan truly cares about social justice (if the story he spun after the Black Lives Matter protests is true: the team would not be named the Indians this year). I do not believe the Dolans are all that concerned about the allegations against Mickey Callaway. Which, to me, makes it difficult for me to support the team. I no longer know what this particular ownership group values.

In terms of the Major League roster, there remains plenty to get excited about. Shane Bieber may surpass Corey Kluber. Jose Ramirez is on pace to enter the Hall and is among the best players to ever don a Cleveland uniform. There is a chance the young players the front office so zealously acquired will pan out in 2021. The front office remains one of the best in the business, and whatever else you want to say about the corporate culture: they are loyal to the ownership group, and other teams covet the talent they develop. The Cleveland Baseball Club may be many things, but an incompetent organization they are not. I plan on rooting for some of my favorite players this year.

 

As for the franchise? I stopped caring months ago, and I am waiting for a reason to start caring again.”

 

Pretty sad when not a single team in the division’s fans currently believe they value winning championships more than the bottom line...

Edited April 4, 2021 by caulfield12

[pcq]

Twins just reached a blockbuster $9M extension with Dobnak. They generally do not spend a lot but rely on superior scouting and evaluation. After poor initial returns on Donaldson they figure to be cautious and let Odorizzi and Rosario move on. Buxton and Berrios are ready to make some money elsewhere. 

[YourWhatHurts]

Hopefully the dorf will be dead and the team will have been sold by the time Gio is ready for FA.  We can only pray.

[YourWhatHurts]

Just now, pcq said:

Twins just reached a blockbuster $9M extension with Dobnak. They generally do not spend a lot but rely on superior scouting and evaluation. After poor initial returns on Donaldson they figure to be cautious and let Odorizzi and Rosario move on. Buxton and Berrios are ready to make some money elsewhere. 

I'm not sure why anyone would want to spend big money on Buxton.  I can't see how he's worthy of anything more than 2 years guaranteed with vesting options based on PAs.  The Twins can win without him anyway.

Berrios leaving would really hurt OTOH.

[caulfield12]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/white-sox-tim-anderson-star-is-only-growing-brighter-and-his-voice-black-experience-baseball-175145174.html
 

Speaking of TA...if Lindor is worth $360+ million, Tim Anderson’s looking at $200-225 million and maybe even more.

Edited April 4, 2021 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

16 minutes ago, YourWhatHurts said:

I'm not sure why anyone would want to spend big money on Buxton.  I can't see how he's worthy of anything more than 2 years guaranteed with vesting options based on PAs.  The Twins can win without him anyway.

Berrios leaving would really hurt OTOH.

Because he still has the most natural ability of any player on the team...if he can stay healthy.

He and Robert are the two best CFers in the AL, along with Kiermaier.

He added 10-15 pounds of muscle in the offseason...and has never looked more comfortable at the plate than entering this season.  Buxton has something to prove, definitely.  He also broke up Burnes’ no hitter yesterday with an oppo homer, and his other against Woodruff I think was 456 feet.

And he’s just hitting the prime years of his career.

Ask any scout in the game, they will list him as one of the ten most talented all-around athletes in the game.

 

Speaking of the Central, Nomar Mazara (4/9) just homered against the Indians, haha.  Donaldson and looking like Benintendi on the DL.

Edited April 4, 2021 by caulfield12

[ShoeLessRob]

Who’s our Jake Cave

[beautox]

53 minutes ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Who’s  Where's our Jake Cave

Throw back to the flash days.

[fathom]

And Buxton leaves the game early

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

And Buxton leaves the game early

Therein lies the debate...$250 million to TA or $100-125 million to Buxton?

Would you be willing to pay another $100-125 million today to lock up Robert for life today?

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

And Buxton leaves the game early

Tweet from a familiar name...

[fathom]

Arraez is really damn good. He’s offensively what many thought Madrigal can be.

[maxjusttyped]

2 hours ago, fathom said:

Arraez is really damn good. He’s offensively what many thought Madrigal can be.

Madrigal hasn't been as advertised on the bases or with the glove, but it's tough to criticize a .333/.368/.360 career slash.

Edited April 4, 2021 by maxjusttyped

[maxjusttyped]

2 hours ago, fathom said:

Arraez is really damn good. He’s offensively what many thought Madrigal can be.

His positional versatility is awesome, though. The Twins opened their season with him in a super utility role which highlights the depth advantage they have over the Sox.

[caulfield12]

There were a number of utility players out there the White Sox passed on for various reasons.

Kim and Profar with the Padres, Kike Rodriguez (perhaps the perfect fit), Marwin Gonzalez, Chris Taylor (should have been a trade target, or Muncy), DJ LeMahieu, Didi Gregorious, Marcus Semien, LaStella, Schoop and Villar.

Our division has perhaps the best in the game in Merrifield.

 

We were content with Leury Garcia, and now we’re paying the price.

The Padres also have a player named Marcano who can play 7 different different positions to go along with Cronenworth and the other aforementioned two.  They have enough flexibility to play Pham in CF while Grisham is out, too.  We have Engel/Garcia, neither who’s ever going to be an everyday player.

Padres=starting rotation (nine deep with Lamet returning soon and Clevinger next year) + multi-positional players (CJ Abrams will be their best soon enough)

White Sox=high strikeout, mostly low OBP sluggers without clear positions and a top bullpen on paper, back of the rotation depth issues.  We shall see if Vaughn, Collins and Mercedes have the ability to rectify that.

 

Yes, too many names...but I guess Hahn has no time to even consider anything else with all his budget limitations and excuses/rationalizations.  Somehow the Padres added Darvish, Snell, Musgrove and Clevinger while only touching one of their six top prospects (Luis Patino to TB).  The only holdovers are Paddack and Lamet.

Edited April 5, 2021 by caulfield12

[Two-Gun Pete]

6 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

There were a number of utility players out there the White Sox passed on for various reasons.

We were content with Leury Garcia, and now we’re paying the price.

Ok, I'll play along. Not that I support in any way what this FO did this offseason, BUT:

Exactly which recent WS winners/contenders became contenders, solely based on the quality of their utility guys?

 

I get that we're all pissed off right now. And it sucks to have to have a lineup that includes Hamilton and Garcia. But injuries can and do happen. To me, the bigger stories are:

1. That Grandal, Moncada, and Robert have looked ordinary,

2. That the horrific lack of rotational depth is already glaringly obvious, &

3. That the choice to squander their FA wad on a closer instead of on DESPERATELY needed depth looks like a moronic mistake.

 

That said, its early for this season, & there's plenty of time to right the ship. I'll agree that there a lack of depth. But Leury Garcia, and players like him are seldom the reason why a team can or cannot compete.

[Quin]

19 hours ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Who’s our Jake Cave

According to Baseball-Reference's similarity score, Nick Williams.

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Ok, I'll play along. Not that I support in any way what this FO did this offseason, BUT:

Exactly which recent WS winners/contenders became contenders, solely based on the quality of their utility guys?

 

I get that we're all pissed off right now. And it sucks to have to have a lineup that includes Hamilton and Garcia. But injuries can and do happen. To me, the bigger stories are:

1. That Grandal, Moncada, and Robert have looked ordinary,

2. That the horrific lack of rotational depth is already glaringly obvious, &

3. That the choice to squander their FA wad on a closer instead of on DESPERATELY needed depth looks like a moronic mistake.

 

That said, its early for this season, & there's plenty of time to right the ship. I'll agree that there a lack of depth. But Leury Garcia, and players like him are seldom the reason why a team can or cannot compete.

But the super-utility players that bring a combination of plus offense and defense at 3-5 positions can make a massive difference.

Someone like Profar, paid like a regular, around $7 million per season, for example who’s equally comfortable in the OF and infield and could play everyday for long stretches and not be platooned.

Chris Taylor, Kike Rodriguez, Jake Cronenworth, Whit Merrifield, etc.

[caulfield12]

16 hours ago, fathom said:

Arraez is really damn good. He’s offensively what many thought Madrigal can be.

https://www.startribune.com/luis-arraez-has-been-learning-from-the-best-and-it-shows/600042225/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=twins
Patterning his offensive approach off Rod Carew.  Thome’s great for the Sox, but we obviously need a different approach with Leury, Engel, Madrigal and Hamilton.

[Two-Gun Pete]

45 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

But the super-utility players that bring a combination of plus offense and defense at 3-5 positions can make a massive difference.

Someone like Profar, paid like a regular, around $7 million per season...

Ok, so (without being a jerk), I'll ask again:

Which recent WS contenders became that way, BECAUSE OF a super utility guy?

 

I happen to agree that depth and versatility are important, and are still undervalued by much of MLB. While JR, et al b**** about not having cash to spend, Tampa and others with less financial firepower routinely skunk the SOX.

At the same time, when you stupidly buy high on a closer on the wrong side of 30, whose coming from a pitching-favorable environment, instead of acquiring depth, you can't afford nice pieces like Profar and others.

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Ok, so (without being a jerk), I'll ask again:

Which recent WS contenders became that way, BECAUSE OF a super utility guy?

 

I happen to agree that depth and versatility are important, and are still undervalued by much of MLB. While JR, et al b**** about not having cash to spend, Tampa and others with less financial firepower routinely skunk the SOX.

At the same time, when you stupidly buy high on a closer on the wrong side of 30, whose coming from a pitching-favorable environment, instead of acquiring depth, you can't afford nice pieces like Profar and others.

Houston Astros=Marwin Gonzalez

Cubs=Bryant, Baez, Zobrist, Happ/Bote now

Red Sox=Eduardo Nunez, Holt, Bogaerts, Swihart

Nationals=Howie Kendrick, Asdrubal Cabrera

Royals=Ben Zobrist

[Kyyle23]

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Houston Astros=Marwin Gonzalez

Cubs=Bryant, Baez, Zobrist, Happ/Bote now

Red Sox=Eduardo Nunez, Holt, Bogaerts, Swihart

Nationals=Howie Kendrick, Asdrubal Cabrera

Royals=Ben Zobrist

This is the stretchiest of 2021 caulfield stretches 

most of those guys were starters

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said:

This is the stretchiest of 2021 caulfield stretches 

most of those guys were starters

By definition a super-utility guy plays nearly every day, just at different positions.

Think of Chone Figgins...then Zobrist and Merrifield.

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

By definition a super-utility guy plays nearly every day, just at different positions.

Think of Chone Figgins...then Zobrist and Merrifield.

Nah.  You are caulfielding it, and I'm not engaging.