Madrigal.

[ron883]

  On 5/16/2021 at 3:06 AM, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

You guys are also assuming Kelenic would have still developed the way he did if the Sox drafted him, which is far from a guarantee. This organization doesn’t exactly have the greatest track record as far as developing position players goes. But yes they still should’ve taken him over Madrigal. 

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And the Mariners do?

[reiks12]

  On 5/16/2021 at 3:09 AM, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Is it cherry picking if you said it at the time?

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Nope you can have that one

[Harold's Leg Lift]

 

  On 5/16/2021 at 3:15 AM, reiks12 said:

Nope you can have that one

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[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

  On 5/16/2021 at 2:36 AM, fathom said:

Huge difference in these situations. Sox had all the info they could ever need about Kelenic and passed on him when he could have been a realistic pick. Buehler was never going to get picked by the Sox at that spot. Lux would have been picked by the Sox instead of Burdi but he got picked before the spot.

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We could add Trent Grisham in the pick after Fulmer .

[hi8is]

20/20

[caulfield12]

  On 5/16/2021 at 3:10 AM, ron883 said:

Madrigal is garbage.

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Amazingly insightful contribution... 

[hi8is]

  On 5/16/2021 at 4:16 AM, caulfield12 said:

Amazingly insightful contribution... 

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At least it was unique!

[ron883]

  On 5/16/2021 at 4:36 AM, hi8is said:

At least it was unique!

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Thank you!

[hi8is]

  On 5/16/2021 at 4:46 AM, ron883 said:

Thank you!

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Unique New York.

[harkness99]

he's been slumping...

 

if he isn't going to be a power hitter thats okay.. but then he needs to learn to take a walk - that would help.

[ron883]

  On 5/16/2021 at 5:13 AM, harkness99 said:

he's been slumping...

 

if he isn't going to be a power hitter thats okay.. but then he needs to learn to take a walk - that would help.

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He is brutal in his slumps. Just constant weak contact. 

[FriendlyNorthsider]

Here is a 2018 Mock Draft from the night of the draft. Both Mayo and Callis had Madrigal going at 3 to the Phillies and Brady Singer going 4 to the Sox. Both had Kelenic going 13 to the Marlins. 

Fangraphs had the Sox take Singer, the Reds taking Madrigal and the Mets taking Kelenic at 6. 

If you want to call it a scouting failure, fine. But Madrigal seemed to be a consensus top 5 pick and not just because of his connection to the White Sox.

2018 has a chance to be one of the best draft classes in recent memory, so there will always be what ifs, but the Sox have a guy who is a solid every day player on a playoff caliber team. Essentially half the draft class has been in the top 40 of a recent top prospect list 

[hi8is]

  On 5/16/2021 at 10:42 AM, FriendlyNorthsider said:

Here is a 2018 Mock Draft from the night of the draft. Both Mayo and Callis had Madrigal going at 3 to the Phillies and Brady Singer going 4 to the Sox. Both had Kelenic going 13 to the Marlins. 

Fangraphs had the Sox take Singer, the Reds taking Madrigal and the Mets taking Kelenic at 6. 

If you want to call it a scouting failure, fine. But Madrigal seemed to be a consensus top 5 pick and not just because of his connection to the White Sox.

2018 has a chance to be one of the best draft classes in recent memory, so there will always be what ifs, but the Sox have a guy who is a solid every day player on a playoff caliber team. Essentially half the draft class has been in the top 40 of a recent top prospect list 

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Almost everyone here was extremely anti Singer.

[SoxAce]

  On 5/16/2021 at 10:55 AM, hi8is said:

Almost everyone here was extremely anti Singer.

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Except me and maybe like 2 others.

[Timmy U]

I was anti-Madrigal, meh Singer, pro-Kelenic, but I'm wrong plenty, so that means nothing.  Hopefully, the Sox are making a turn to at least considering more HS hitters.  Removing an entire category of players from consideration is no way to have success in the draft.

[reiks12]

Madrigal is having a difficult May: .413 OPS.

[caulfield12]

  On 5/16/2021 at 4:06 PM, Timmy U said:

I was anti-Madrigal, meh Singer, pro-Kelenic, but I'm wrong plenty, so that means nothing.  Hopefully, the Sox are making a turn to at least considering more HS hitters.  Removing an entire category of players from consideration is no way to have success in the draft.

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That said, Tim Anderson wasn’t far off experience-wise from most higher schoolers, with more time spent playing basketball than anything.

[Timmy U]

  On 5/16/2021 at 4:19 PM, reiks12 said:

Madrigal is having a difficult May: .413 OPS.

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Ouch.  His profile is so strange that consistency would be one selling point.  Sox getting close to a decision point that I would have thought unlikely a year ago:  Long-term are the Sox better with Madrigal at second and Moncada at third OR Moncada at second and Burger at third?  Moncada's not a great second baseman, but neither is Madrigal.  And at least Moncada has the arm to consistently turn two.  Right now defensively Burger @ 3rd > Madrigal @ 2nd.

[Timmy U]

  On 5/16/2021 at 5:17 PM, caulfield12 said:

That said, Tim Anderson wasn’t far off experience-wise from most higher schoolers, with more time spent playing basketball than anything.

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True.  I was a big fan of the Anderson pick because the upside in all of his xbh was evident.

[caulfield12]

  On 5/16/2021 at 5:21 PM, Timmy U said:

Ouch.  His profile is so strange that consistency would be one selling point.  Sox getting close to a decision point that I would have thought unlikely a year ago:  Long-term are the Sox better with Madrigal at second and Moncada at third OR Moncada at second and Burger at third?  Moncada's not a great second baseman, but neither is Madrigal.  And at least Moncada has the arm to consistently turn two.  Right now defensively Burger @ 3rd > Madrigal @ 2nd.

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They will not be moving Moncada off a position where he’s currently top-rated fielding to one where he’s well below average and clearly uncomfortable.  Burger to second has higher likelihood, which is about 2-3%.

Edited May 16, 2021 by caulfield12

[Timmy U]

  On 5/16/2021 at 5:31 PM, caulfield12 said:

They will not be moving Moncada off a position where he’s currently top-rated fielding to one where he’s well below average and clearly uncomfortable.  Burger to second has higher likelihood, which is about 2-3%.

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You're probably right.  But it doesn't mean they wouldn't be better that way.

[reiks12]

  On 5/16/2021 at 5:21 PM, Timmy U said:

Ouch.  His profile is so strange that consistency would be one selling point.  Sox getting close to a decision point that I would have thought unlikely a year ago:  Long-term are the Sox better with Madrigal at second and Moncada at third OR Moncada at second and Burger at third?  Moncada's not a great second baseman, but neither is Madrigal.  And at least Moncada has the arm to consistently turn two.  Right now defensively Burger @ 3rd > Madrigal @ 2nd.

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Madrigal has 239 plate appearances in MLB. Do you honestly believe he is a finished product?

[Timmy U]

  On 5/16/2021 at 6:02 PM, reiks12 said:

Madrigal has 239 plate appearances in MLB. Do you honestly believe he is a finished product?

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Of course not.  My concern is the profile.  Righthanded hitter with no power and very few walks.  He's got 70 bat to ball skills, maybe 60 speed.  50 defense and a 40 arm (at best).  He's got to hit .320 to be a plus player over there.  We were sold plus defense, he's nowhere near that.  Ceiling is a 3 win player, but a medium outcome is Darwin Barney without the GG D.  There's a reason players of this profile are not picked often in the first half of the first round.

Compare Madrigal to Nicky Lopez.  Lopez hasn't been a great hitter thus far in his career, but he hits lefthanded.  The defense is plus, and he can play shortstop in a pinch. The speed is at least as good as Madrigal's if not a half grade better, and he was a 5th rounder.  That's where you take second basemen.  Not #4 in the draft.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

  On 5/16/2021 at 6:32 PM, Timmy U said:

Of course not.  My concern is the profile.  Righthanded hitter with no power and very few walks.  He's got 70 bat to ball skills, maybe 60 speed.  50 defense and a 40 arm (at best).  He's got to hit .320 to be a plus player over there.  We were sold plus defense, he's nowhere near that.  Ceiling is a 3 win player, but a medium outcome is Darwin Barney without the GG D.  There's a reason players of this profile are not picked often in the first half of the first round.

Compare Madrigal to Nicky Lopez.  Lopez hasn't been a great hitter thus far in his career, but he hits lefthanded.  The defense is plus, and he can play shortstop in a pinch. The speed is at least as good as Madrigal's if not a half grade better, and he was a 5th rounder.  That's where you take second basemen.  Not #4 in the draft.

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Edited May 16, 2021 by Harold's Leg Lift

[reiks12]

  On 5/16/2021 at 6:32 PM, Timmy U said:

Of course not.  My concern is the profile.  Righthanded hitter with no power and very few walks.  He's got 70 bat to ball skills, maybe 60 speed.  50 defense and a 40 arm (at best).  He's got to hit .320 to be a plus player over there.  We were sold plus defense, he's nowhere near that.  Ceiling is a 3 win player, but a medium outcome is Darwin Barney without the GG D.  There's a reason players of this profile are not picked often in the first half of the first round.

Compare Madrigal to Nicky Lopez.  Lopez hasn't been a great hitter thus far in his career, but he hits lefthanded.  The defense is plus, and he can play shortstop in a pinch. The speed is at least as good as Madrigal's if not a half grade better, and he was a 5th rounder.  That's where you take second basemen.  Not #4 in the draft.

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Nicky Lopez has 800 atbats and a sub 600 OPS during that time. Madrigal has shown an ability to hit in the low 300s in his limited sample size.