Moncada has 1 hit against offspeed or breaking pitches all season, 15 hits off non-fastballs since 2020

[black jack]

You're supposed to hit fastballs and the hangers.

Occasionally run into a good breaker.  

[caulfield12]

6 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I am just speaking out loud, don't crucify me.. I wonder what kind of trade value Moncada has?  Ala Pineda for Jesus Montero trade. 

They're never going to get the proper value back in return.

This is like the Twins trading Buxton or Berrios 2-3 years ago when it became apparent they weren't going sign long-term extensions...before they became All-Star/Cy Young caliber.

The problem is that Moncada's already locked in with a long-term extension, which provides clarity, but not a tremendous amount of surplus value if Yoan is 2017-2018/2020-21 version.

There's ONE great season, four average to below average seasons and then the Covid "repercussions/aftereffects" which is seeming more and more like a giant excuse when Freddie Freeman and Eduardo Rodriguez were in life threatening situations and turned out just fine.

You've got the focus/work ethic issue, the lingering/nagging leg issues (not getting nearly the stolen bases his ability warrants), taking him away from the comfort zone of a team filled with his fellow countrymen (maybe he's gotten too comfortable).  Heck, some will start wondering if he got his money (twice now) and is more interested in a music/celebrity career than making improvements playing the game of baseball.

Or eating Twinkies, lol.

 

Without Moncada as an All-Star, we're fighting tooth and nail for the Central or a wild card spot, at best.

Then you start talking about dealing Giolito as well...and Hahn's "retooling on the fly" nonsense.

 

[caulfield12]

One thing's for sure...Luis Robert, at least, is making a better adjustment (to off-speed stuff) in his "rookie year" (continued) than Yoan in 3-4 seasons.

Remember, he spent 2+ seasons just fighting the RH/LH switch-batting issue, then finally seemed to get comfortable on the field when moved from second base to 3rd.

[GREEDY]

7 hours ago, EloyJenkins said:

Absolutely need to bat him at #2 then while starter is trying to establish fastball early in game. 

Or late in the lineup so he sees the starter only twice.  Relievers throw fastballs more often.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, GREEDY said:

Or late in the lineup so he sees the starter only twice.  Relievers throw fastballs more often.

You can't have one of your so-called franchise players hitting 8th or 9th...he's going to have to fight his way through it.

If it's obviously to civilians at SoxTalk, surely it's got an !!!!! after the comment about not giving him any fastballs in the hitting zone, even ahead in the count 2-0 or 3-1.

[Greg Hibbard]

3 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

What is the current trend? 2019 was spectacular but he has struggled outside of that season. Hopefully this is a step in the process and he can be consistently good for the long haul. 

His BABIP suggests he’s having at least some bad luck, and when considered with the COVID he battled and the sample size of 68 games we’re talking about, I tend to think he’ll end up doing at least as well as his career average, which not only includes his insanely good 2019, but also his not great 2018, his meh 2016-17 blip, and his meh 2020-21. 

[tray]

I looked at his splits and can't glean anything useful from them that I can cite. I was looking to support or refute the notion that maybe Moncada should  forget switch hitting and bat LH no matter who is pitching.   I don't know...maybe that would make it easier for him to focus and to adjust to off-speed pitches.

[chitownsportsfan]

24 minutes ago, tray said:

I looked at his splits and can't glean anything useful from them that I can cite. I was looking to support or refute the notion that maybe Moncada should  forget switch hitting and bat LH no matter who is pitching.   I don't know...maybe that would make it easier for him to focus and to adjust to off-speed pitches.

It's hard to say "I don't know" but I don't think anybody really knows what Moncada will be going forward.  I think you can project him somewhere between 2-6 WAR, but that's such a large range it's almost meaningless.  He might be on of those guys that is just a 2 WAR player one year and a 5 WAR player the next.  We had one of those at the tail end of his career, Alex Rios, although Rios wasn't as naturally talented as Moncada imo and Moncada has a higher ceiling.

[Southwest Sider]

I'm not worried about Yoan. He's still super young and has plenty of time to work through any adjustments he may need to make. His talent will shine through and I'm pretty certain he will end this year over .300 batting average again. 

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, South Sider said:

I'm not worried about Yoan. He's still super young and has plenty of time to work through any adjustments he may need to make. His talent will shine through and I'm pretty certain he will end this year over .300 batting average again. 

Super young...?   

[Southwest Sider]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Super young...?   

I doubt all players hit their ceilings at 25. But perhaps we differ.

I do worry about his legs though. They just seem weird.

[caulfield12]

4 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

What is the current trend? 2019 was spectacular but he has struggled outside of that season. Hopefully this is a step in the process and he can be consistently good for the long haul. 

How many times has he actually come close to playing 150+?

Extrapolating numbers over 162 is not so useful for Yoan when you carefully examine all the times he has been pulled from games early or missed stretches at a time.  Not to mention Covid. 

[South Side Hit Men]

It’s a small sample, so nothing to worry about. There have been signs he has begun to break out of his early slump, with 7 hits in his last eight games. Thankfully he hasn’t brought it to the field where his glove work has been excellent.

A much weirder anomaly is the Baez situation, where he hasn’t hit a 4 seem fastball (MLB’s #1 pitch) this season. Baez is on pace for 50 HRs, but also an insane number of Ks (over 300). Not sure if he’d be pulled / placed on the IL list at some point before reaching the latter unthinkable plateau.

[Greg Hibbard]

What reassures me about Yoan is that we have ceiling is capable of being quite high over a sustained period. I could see him being a very streaky, high variance/high strikeout/frustrating to follow hitter, but even he’s just a 3.5 WAR player I’m good. I do think he will get back on track when the weather warms up.

[bmags]

There are so many reasons why this is a stretch of an example, but I don't really care because it still feels apt just because I think the world of Moncada's raw talent:

first off, he (and pretty much every baseball player ever) will not get close to the defensive value of this player that made him extremely valuable even when he was inconsistent early

Said player never had the low levels of contact Moncada has had

But I just think about the early offensive inconsistency of Adrian Beltre, and then how after years and years of being a fine offensive player he became a consistently great one for the second half of his career.

Yoan has already shown how big of a difference just a change in approach can make for him. Not a swing change, not a stance, just better plan at the plate. He struggles with what he thinks should happen at the plate vs what does happen, and in 2019 it felt like he just accepted what was coming to him more. I think he may struggle with that, but will eventually click on this front consistently.

Also, holy crap Adrian Beltre's 2004 season. You look at that and go "Man he was MVP right?" and then remember that Barry Bonds existed and had a .600 OBP that year hahahahahaha this is just insane: .362/.609/.812 slash line hahahahahahahaha

[harkness99]

With Jiménez out we need moncada to be a threat... last year wasn't as vital.

Edited April 23, 2021 by harkness99

[he gone.]

14 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Opinion: With Moncada, the expectation was peak Jose Ramirez but it looks like we're getting Joe Crede instead. The angst comes from the high prospect ranking. You could claim he's a mild disappointment, but he's definitely not a bust. 

I've been saying that for about a year and half now. Moncada is Joe Crede. Which is fine. You don't need 9 superstars to win a WS. however, he's not going to be a superstar. He's a nice bat around 6/7 in the lineup. He can get hot and carry a team for a bit, but at the end of the day he's an above average player who may have a couple all-star seasons. 

 

Also makes you think why do we have a 12 page thread on a guy in Madrigal that just puts bat to ball consistently. 

[SonofaRoache]

9 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

How many times has he actually come close to playing 150+?

Extrapolating numbers over 162 is not so useful for Yoan when you carefully examine all the times he has been pulled from games early or missed stretches at a time.  Not to mention Covid. 

My point is we need to let the games be played. We don't have enough consistent data to know where Moncada settles just yet. He hits the ball hard when he swings and plays great defense so my expectation is he settles as a very good player. 

[Lillian]

One often overlooked issue with Moncada is that he represents the only viable option to fulfil that perennially elusive need for a middle of the order LH bat. If he doesn't hit well enough to bat somewhere in the middle of the RH heavy lineup, then who will? Eaton doesn't provide the power and Grandal just isn't a good enough hitter. Many of you think that I place too much emphasis on that issue, but the Sox success versus LH pitching and mediocrity vs RH pitching supports my argument. If he at least lives up to his contract, plays solid defense and steals more bases, the Sox can hope to find a power bat to fill the void, sometime in the near future. Perhaps they will sign one to replace Eaton in RF, next year.

However, in the meantime, the lack of balance in the lineup really makes Moncada's success, or failure, a bigger issue than whether he lives up to his contract and expectations. If he were simply another RH hitter, it wouldn't be that critical. However, given that he is probably the only guy on this roster who could provide a middle of the order,  LH bat, this team needs him to be a better hitter. La Russa tried batting him cleanup, but so far, that experiment has been a complete failure.

[reiks12]

I like having Moncada hit in front of Abreu, especially if Abreu can heat up. I feel pitchers would then throw Moncada more fastballs.

[Quin]

Moncada's in great company: Each MLB team's biggest 2021 disappointment.

Others on the list: Tatis, Quintana, Pederson, Gleyber, Castillo, Plesac, Conforto

Castillo, Quintana, Pederson, Plesac, and pre-Cohen Conforto were popular acquisition targets on this board this offseason. Tatis, well, yeah. Gleyber seems worth mentioning as someone similar to Moncada.

I think we can all chill, because as far as I'm aware, none of them had COVID. We don't know if Moncada's a COVID-long hauler yet. If he is, that's real fucking bad. If he isn't, which would be my guess since he's still playing fine at 3B, then he's just in an early season slump like all the aforementioned dudes.

[caulfield12]

15 minutes ago, Quin said:

Moncada's in great company: Each MLB team's biggest 2021 disappointment.

Others on the list: Tatis, Quintana, Pederson, Gleyber, Castillo, Plesac, Conforto

Castillo, Quintana, Pederson, Plesac, and pre-Cohen Conforto were popular acquisition targets on this board this offseason. Tatis, well, yeah. Gleyber seems worth mentioning as someone similar to Moncada.

I think we can all chill, because as far as I'm aware, none of them had COVID. We don't know if Moncada's a COVID-long hauler yet. If he is, that's real fucking bad. If he isn't, which would be my guess since he's still playing fine at 3B, then he's just in an early season slump like all the aforementioned dudes.

Tatis has barely played ten games, is still contributing on the basepaths...and there’s no way to know what impact the shoulder and a massive new contract are having.

He’s already faced Buehler twice, Kershaw, Woodruff, Burnes, etc.  If he still has less than a 2 fWAR on July 31st, then by all means, list him as a disappointment.

Actually, Pham has been way worse.

Edited April 23, 2021 by caulfield12

[Quin]

15 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Tatis has barely played ten games, is still contributing on the basepaths...and there’s no way to know what impact the shoulder and a massive new contract are having.

He’s already faced Buehler twice, Kershaw, Woodruff, Burnes, etc.  If he still has less than a 2 fWAR on July 31st, then by all means, list him as a disappointment.

Actually, Pham has been way worse.

This link was Caulfield bait and it worked.

[caulfield12]

18 minutes ago, Quin said:

This link was Caulfield bait and it worked.

Fine, but it’s like saying Cody Bellinger or Dinelson Lamet are disappointments, too.

[Quin]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Fine, but it’s like saying Cody Bellinger or Dinelson Lamet are disappointments, too.

They're even smaller sample sizes, but yes, they are. We're all disappointed in Eloy. 

But you're handwaving a guy striking out 37% of time, with 7 errors in 11 games, a non-contact injury that we know will get worse the longer he puts off surgery (the first year into a $340M contract) and your argument is we don't know how badly the shoulder is affecting him (even though it should be incredibly alarming), or the pressure of that massive deal? 

But don't worry, he's contributing on the base paths with ... 2 stolen bases and 1 caught stealing.

The point is, if we're freaking out about Moncada, then Padres fans need to be burning down Petco Park about Tatis.