CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 4 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Look, Mazara has never ever produced >1 fWAR in a season. Which means he has ALWAYS sucked at baseball. Trading anything for a guy who has never ever produced >1 fWAR in a season is, by definition, stupid. He sucked, and it sucked to trade for a guy who sucks. Because making a minor trade is something to get all sucked, disappointed, stupid, sucked, sucks about when trying to see if a 24/25 year old guy might be ready to breakout. Thank goodness for all the McCann's, Muncy's, Mercedes', Justin Turner's, Big Papi's, Randy Johnson's and all the other guys who it took longer to breakout to make what you say utter and complete nonsense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said: One of the pervading themes on Soxtalk is that a 24 year old is a finished product. Mazara's bWAR went from -0.3 to 0.5 to 1.0 in the years before we traded for him. As a GM you have two routes to follow, paying for past performance or trying to extrapolate where a player is going to end up...an offensively and defensively improving 24 year old lefty seemed like a reasonable bet. It didn't work out...but no matter how many times you write "sucks" in a post...it was a reasonable calculated gamble. Completely agree and saying that 2020 Mazara is exactly what everyone expected is dumb. He had a career worst season. Maybe covid related, maybe not. Anyways, who the F cares now. He’s no longer on the team and the Sox gave up a middling prospect to acquire him. He wasn’t the reason the Sox lost to Oakland in the playoffs either. So far the front office seems to have found the best RF option that was available last winter. Gotta give them props for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Because making a minor trade is something to get all sucked, disappointed, stupid, sucked, sucks about when trying to see if a 24/25 year old guy might be ready to breakout. Thank goodness for all the McCann's, Muncy's, Mercedes', Justin Turner's, Big Papi's, Randy Johnson's and all the other guys who it took longer to breakout to make what you say utter and complete nonsense. Mccann: FA signing Muncy: FA signing Mercedes: rule 5 FA Turner: FA signing Big Papi: FA signing, then roids to artificially improve his performance. Randy Johnson: dunno what you're talking about here. Mazara: fWAR says he sucked his entire career. Other than being exactly wrong about all these "trades" you cited, your insistence to defend this move is noteworthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 9 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said: One of the pervading themes on Soxtalk is that a 24 year old is a finished product. Mazara's bWAR went from -0.3 to 0.5 to 1.0 in the years before we traded for him. As a GM you have two routes to follow, paying for past performance or trying to extrapolate where a player is going to end up...an offensively and defensively improving 24 year old lefty seemed like a reasonable bet. It didn't work out...but no matter how many times you write "sucks" in a post...it was a reasonable calculated gamble. Ok, so was Mazara ever good at baseball, yes or no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 (edited) The epic trade fukup that may have turned the tide of baseball history on the Southside was Tatis Jr for James Shields. The Mazara and EE deals were mistakes but not really that costly or significant moving forward. Once Eloy returns I can see Big Foot (Vaughn) in LF and Eloy in RF. I want extra offense until the 7th when defensive substitutions can be made (as was done last night). Edited April 25, 2021 by tray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 9 minutes ago, tray said: The epic trade fukup that may have turned the tide of baseball history on the Southside was Tatis Jr for James Shields. The Mazara and EE deals were mistakes but not really that costly or significant moving forward. Once Eloy returns I can see Big Foot (Vaughn) in LF and Eloy in RF. I want extra offense until the 7th when defensive substitutions can be made (as was done last night). I see zero chance they rock those two in the corners and take Eaton out of the lineup if he keeps producing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Mccann: FA signing Muncy: FA signing Mercedes: rule 5 FA Turner: FA signing Big Papi: FA signing, then roids to artificially improve his performance. Randy Johnson: dunno what you're talking about here. Mazara: fWAR says he sucked his entire career. Other than being exactly wrong about all these "trades" you cited, your insistence to defend this move is noteworthy. I didn't say they were trades I said you got all bent out of shape about a nothing trade ( a minor leaguer who was 1 yr younger than the major league player who already had some decent yrs. and was a higher rated prospect than Steele Walker ever was) trying to see if a player could reach his potential. 0 points for reading comprehension. I defend it just as 3 or 4 others here in response to your obsessive over the top reaction to it to this day. Remember that time you constantly ridiculed me for not wanting Puig last year because of his behavior ? What happened this year ? Oh yeah you said you didn't want him . Why ? Because of his behavior. Farcical. Edited April 25, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michelangelosmonkey Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 6 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said: Ok, so was Mazara ever good at baseball, yes or no? He got a record $5 million signing bonus at 16. Put up nearly a .900 OPS at AA at 19. Keith Law had him as #9 prospect in all of baseball in 2016 Baseball Prospectus had him as #5. He came in 5th in rookie of the year balloting. He had a +0.5 bWar at 23 and at +1 bWar at 24. Fan graphs had him with a positive FWar every year of his career except 2017. So yes the preponderance of evidence suggests he was always good at baseball. He was terrible last year and now he's gone...this is a ridiculous battle to be fighting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 Of all the acquisitions the past two years, thought Mazara and Lynn made most sense in terms of payroll and risk/reward. Mazara didn't pan out as expected, but it between his health and small sample, hard to be too critical there. Gave Engel an opportunity he took advantage of in September. I was more concerned with the cultural aspect of Eaton returning, but as long as Tony doesn't replace Jake Lamb with Todd Frazier, things appear to be working out. It has been much better than expected performance wise to start the season. When Engle returns, I'd like to see a rotation (Robert 90%, 70% Eaton, Vaughn and Engle). Hamilton is likely to stay and see some time at Vaughn & Engle's expense. Hoping they keep Mendick over Garcia for infield reserve, with Collins being the last bench player and Lamb gone (pipedream at this point). Vaughn has started hitting well, hopefully they keep and play him regularly. 20 Games in, still too early to tell what is going to happen health or production wise, but Eaton checks a lot of boxes, good and bad (bunting), for Tony. Still wish they would try him in LF with Engel in the lineup, but doubt that would be considered in Tony's "veteran centric" school of thought. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Remember that time you constantly ridiculed me for not wanting Puig last year because of his behavior ? What happened this year ? Oh yeah you said you didn't want him . Why ? Because of his behavior. Farcical. Sure. You clutched your pearls because "speeding tickets" or something. This year, with Darryl Boston already taking g up the "alleged sexual assaulter" role in the org, I felt that him being signed would be bad. That is, at least if/until the lawsuit was resolved. That said, Puig was (at one time) actually good at baseball. Mazara has always sucked. 2 hours ago, michelangelosmonkey said: He got a record $5 million signing bonus at 16. Put up nearly a .900 OPS at AA at 19. Keith Law had him as #9 prospect in all of baseball in 2016 Baseball Prospectus had him as #5. He came in 5th in rookie of the year balloting. He had a +0.5 bWar at 23 and at +1 bWar at 24. Fan graphs had him with a positive FWar every year of his career except 2017. So yes the preponderance of evidence suggests he was always good at baseball. He was terrible last year and now he's gone...this is a ridiculous battle to be fighting. Did the SOX as an organization get demoted to the Southern League when I wasn't looking? Asking because a players MLB #s mean more at the, ya know, MLB LEVEL. After 4+ years in MLB, and his signing org giving up on him, I'd say that he probably wasn't good at MLB-caliber baseball. And guess what? The fine folks at fangraphs happen to agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 Through nearly 1 month, I couldn't have been more wrong about Eaton vs Pederson. Eaton is still terrible defensively but his bat in the 2 hole has been a perfect fit and it honestly looks like he's gonna sustain it most of the year. A great grab that I whiffed on and hahn crushed. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Through nearly 1 month, I couldn't have been more wrong about Eaton vs Pederson. Eaton is still terrible defensively but his bat in the 2 hole has been a perfect fit and it honestly looks like he's gonna sustain it most of the year. A great grab that I whiffed on and hahn crushed. You mean TLR...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 I've always felt that the biggest reason Hahn went after Mazara was because of the mammoth homer he hit off Lopez in 2019. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 Joc Pederson now up to .250...left for dead way too early. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 Adam was a good signing but has also looked a little old and beat up. He needs strategic rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 Well I think as long as everybody understand this is a “Sucks the Least” competition we’re all good here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWiN4PreP Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 lmao, and then we get this terrible thread... 1) Let's not pretend that these were our only options. Many of us wanted the front office to actually put the money into the ball club. 2) It's far too early Eaton has done a decent job. It seems like he started off strong, then went on a slump, and is now doing okayish. Most importantly, he's staying on the field. How long will this last? I don't think too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjusttyped Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 Eaton has played more than 100 games once since being traded from the Sox after '16. It's obvious the grind of playing every day is already wearing on him. This is a JR issue rather than Hahn or KW, but the question should not be Eaton vs Joc, rather it should have been one of those 2 plus another OF that's in the ~2 win range. It's not like there was a shortage of them available in FA or via trade this off-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, maxjusttyped said: Eaton has played more than 100 games once since being traded from the Sox after '16. It's obvious the grind of playing every day is already wearing on him. This is a JR issue rather than Hahn or KW, but the question should not be Eaton vs Joc, rather it should have been one of those 2 plus another OF that's in the ~2 win range. It's not like there was a shortage of them available in FA or via trade this off-season. Rosario was another option in the same price range...in this case, CLE adding by subtracting from the Twins, a "kill two birds with one stone" win. Edited May 13, 2021 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Hit Men Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 minute ago, caulfield12 said: Rosario was another option in the same price range...in this case, CLE adding by subtracting from the Twins, a "kill two birds with one stone" win. As did the Sox with Colome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-Gun Pete Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 4 hours ago, Jerksticks said: Well I think as long as everybody understand this is a “Sucks the Least” competition we’re all good here. I've seen players suck before, but Mazara just plain sucks. I mean, he's the suckiest suck that ever sucked. I gotta go, my damn wiener kids are listening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 I wonder if Eaton will even stay as the full time LFer by the end of the year. It's possible Engel or Vaughn replace him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFirebird Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 9 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Joc Pederson now up to .250...left for dead way too early. He is still -0.3 WAR and 77 RC+ which is just dreadful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 This thread being resurrected is just laughably bad, especially while the Sox are surging. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) 46 minutes ago, BFirebird said: He is still -0.3 WAR and 77 RC+ which is just dreadful. https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=80&type=8&season=2021&month=0&season1=2021&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2021-01-01&enddate=2021-12-31&sort=18,d&page=7_30 They don't update today's stats until the next morning. Here, his average is .219, which it was entering play on WED. He's ahead of 61/243 but that will jump up quite a bit. Of course, the bigger question is the remainder of the season, isn't it? Edited May 13, 2021 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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