balls and strikes umpiring

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

33 minutes ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

I've seen a few games where we've been given a run disadvantage (the Gio game in Boston gave them a 1.5 run advantage, though it didn't matter after the early hole we were in).

I'll be curious if whoever runs the account will compile each umpire's overall score/rating, and if they'll track total run advantage for each team. I'd imagine the run advantage +/- should even out to zero in a full season but curious to see if that's actually the case.

Every game against TX  we were on the wrong side of the bad call spectrum and remember we were the home team and still won all 3 games.

[MiddleCoastBias]

8 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Every game against TX  we were on the wrong side of the bad call spectrum and remember we were the home team and still won all 3 games.

Yep, it's definitely felt like that. I'm not one to cry "the umps are out to get us!" and that's why I suspect it'll all even out in the wash of a full season, but it's been frustrating early on.

[tray]

We did not see as superimposed strike zones on telecasts years ago and  did not have ball/strike calls questioned based on video technology.

That is why some people suggest that similar technology be applied to improve the accuracy of ball/strike calls. 

Instead of a blanket rejection of the idea, perhaps consider some kind of compromise solution.

 

[CentralChamps21]

59 minutes ago, MiddleCoastBias said:

Yep, it's definitely felt like that. I'm not one to cry "the umps are out to get us!" and that's why I suspect it'll all even out in the wash of a full season, but it's been frustrating early on.

If anyone has time to do this, tracking this game by game and seeing what the net +/- is for the season would be interesting.

[Jose Abreu]

6 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

If anyone has time to do this, tracking this game by game and seeing what the net +/- is for the season would be interesting.

I've been doing it. Through 21 games we're at -9.91 runs from umpiring. I decided to do this because I've followed these accounts for years and have felt like the Sox frequently are at a disadvantage, but wanted to quantify it so that it didn't seem like whining.

I think the 2018 season is what pushed me to wanting robo umps. Watching all those called strike 3s on Moncada conditioned me to just assume that any pitch within 5 inches of the plate would go against us, and it's sad how often that's actually the case

[Ducksnort]

45 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I've been doing it. Through 21 games we're at -9.91 runs from umpiring. I decided to do this because I've followed these accounts for years and have felt like the Sox frequently are at a disadvantage, but wanted to quantify it so that it didn't seem like whining.

I think the 2018 season is what pushed me to wanting robo umps. Watching all those called strike 3s on Moncada conditioned me to just assume that any pitch within 5 inches of the plate would go against us, and it's sad how often that's actually the case

And it's ludicrous. Robo umps will not ruin the game as some have suggested. We don't watch the game for umpires, and the only time we talk about umps are when they fuck up. As Stone and Hawk always said, you know you have a good umpire when you don't have to talk about them.

And another poster said, yeah but the umpires suck for every team. Well shouldn't something be done about it then??

I'm glad they are testing it in the minors. Can't get here soon enough. I'm sure there will be kinks to work out, much like replay (which people said would also ruin the game), but it will be worth it.

[Green Line]

Replay IS ruining the game.  You guys want instant gratification.

Sports are a human game, for humans.  We could also have robot batters and robot fielders eventually, but that would be a terrible idea.  One day you'll have people pushing for it though.  "Why wouldn't we want better quality players on the field?"

[chw42]

1 hour ago, Jose Abreu said:

I've been doing it. Through 21 games we're at -9.91 runs from umpiring. I decided to do this because I've followed these accounts for years and have felt like the Sox frequently are at a disadvantage, but wanted to quantify it so that it didn't seem like whining.

I think the 2018 season is what pushed me to wanting robo umps. Watching all those called strike 3s on Moncada conditioned me to just assume that any pitch within 5 inches of the plate would go against us, and it's sad how often that's actually the case

At that rate, we're gonna lose 8 games due to bad umpiring alone.

Edited April 26, 2021 by chw42

[southsideirish71]

11 minutes ago, Green Line said:

Replay IS ruining the game.  You guys want instant gratification.

Sports are a human game, for humans.  We could also have robot batters and robot fielders eventually, but that would be a terrible idea.  One day you'll have people pushing for it though.  "Why wouldn't we want better quality players on the field?"

The human game has an element that cannot clean itself up because its protected by an umpires union.  If this was just a matter of the occasional slight that would be fine.  But we are seeing new levels of incompetence protected by an entity that cares only for the umpires.  Hell Angel Hernandez sued because he felt he was being slighted because he wasn't leading a playoff umpire roster.  Thats amazing.  We are also at a point where velocity and movement mixed with framing might be too quick for the human eye.  So flawed individuals with flawed skills that cannot be questioned are making unilateral decisions.  Sounds like a recipe for failure.  

Edited April 26, 2021 by southsideirish71

[Kyyle23]

18 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

The human game has an element that cannot clean itself up because its protected by an umpires union.  If this was just a matter of the occasional slight that would be fine.  But we are seeing new levels of incompetence protected by an entity that cares only for the umpires.  Hell Angel Hernandez sued because he felt he was being slighted because he wasn't leading a playoff umpire roster.  Thats amazing.  We are also at a point where velocity and movement mixed with framing might be too quick for the human eye.  So flawed individuals with flawed skills that cannot be questioned are making unilateral decisions.  Sounds like a recipe for failure.  

If there was open and transparent effort to clean it up, there wouldn't be as many calls for the robot umps.   The umps make it so hard to back them 

[Jose Abreu]

24 minutes ago, chw42 said:

At that rate, we're gonna lose 8 games due to bad umpiring alone.

I don't expect it to continue to be *this* bad for us, but yes, it's a very large figure for this point in the season

[Ducksnort]

26 minutes ago, Green Line said:

Replay IS ruining the game.  You guys want instant gratification.

Sports are a human game, for humans.  We could also have robot batters and robot fielders eventually, but that would be a terrible idea.  One day you'll have people pushing for it though.  "Why wouldn't we want better quality players on the field?"

That's a straw man argument. Lmao people will not be asking for robot batters and fielders to replace humans (although...that would be pretty cool to see as a project of sorts). 

Baseball is so behind the times when compared to other sports in terms of technological advancements on the field (although, they are starting to get better). 

People don't want replay for instant gratification, that has nothing to do with it (some of these replays do take longer than they should...but that's one of the "kinks" that should be worked out over time). It's about getting the call RIGHT. Why is this even an argument? Why do people defend making wrong calls?

[southsideirish71]

5 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

 I don't expect it to continue to be *this* bad for us, but yes, it's a very large figure for this point in the season

It's so bad we have a new specialty called framing which is code for umpires are so dumb we can trick them into something being a strike based on the slight movement of the wrist.  Slight of hand belongs in a club with a magician, not in a competitive game.  

[harkness99]

53 minutes ago, Green Line said:

Replay IS ruining the game.  You guys want instant gratification.

Sports are a human game, for humans.  We could also have robot batters and robot fielders eventually, but that would be a terrible idea.  One day you'll have people pushing for it though.  "Why wouldn't we want better quality players on the field?"

people who want replay want instant gratification? 

lol....

[MiddleCoastBias]

[Green Line]

17 minutes ago, harkness99 said:

people who want replay want instant gratification? 

lol....

Yes, they want everything to be correct.  Sometimes you have to accept that the umps make mistakes, just like managers do.

Should we replace TLR with a robot?  I think many would want that.

[Dominikk85]

4 hours ago, harkness99 said:

The problem I have is its worse than ever before.. the strike zone graphic has been around for a long ass time.

 

I'm noticing the horrible calls and strikes overwhelmingly this year... it seems to be getting worse.

It is actually not worse than ever, stats show that Umps are getting better since cross checked against pitch fx

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ftw.usatoday.com/2016/02/mlb-umpires-improving-instant-replay-strike-zone/amp

There are some which are bad but overall Umps have been steadily improving the last 10 years, there is just a human limit to what the eye can do plus nastier moving and faster pitches make it more difficult too. 

 

Umpires make plenty mistakes but the feeling that Umps are getting worse is selective perception. 

If you want perfect strike calling get robo ump (but that will cause some issues that need to be addressed because robo ump allows some pitches to be thrown that just graze the zone and are tough to hit but a regular ump would not call 

(in short human zone calls zone wider and shorter than rulebook zone which helps hitters because wide pitches are easier to hit than low and high ones) 

[tray]

48 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

It's so bad we have a new specialty called framing which is code for umpires are so dumb we can trick them into something being a strike based on the slight movement of the wrist.  Slight of hand belongs in a club with a magician, not in a competitive game.  

Agree. Framing pitches is also a code for trying to cheat.   As we know, Grandal was sought after. in part, because he was a good framer.....he could get pitches that were outside the zone called as strikes.  That has now gone to his head and he is literally trying to catch pitches  before the batter hits them.

If you want to fix a problem, the first thing you need to do is to admit that you have one.  Ignoring this won't make it go away.

[chw42]

23 minutes ago, Green Line said:

Yes, they want everything to be correct.  Sometimes you have to accept that the umps make mistakes, just like managers do.

Should we replace TLR with a robot?  I think many would want that.

How is wanting everything to be correct instant gratification? The umpire's job is literally to get as many calls correct as possible. Not make mistakes along the way to give the game a human element. 

[NWINFan]

7 hours ago, ScooterMcGee said:

I think the players work way too hard to have the outcome of a play, and sometimes even the game, be left in the hands of someone/something they have absolutely zero control over. It It doesn't just happen once a week, this is happening multiple times a game.

 

This makes sense to me. I even remember when I played ball when I was 18. I walked to the plate once and noticed the ump. He called low balls strikes constantly. The first pitch to me was low again, and I took a cut because I didn't want to fall behind on the count. I grounded out.

From the fan's viewpoint, I don't want to dwell on ball and strike calls. There are just too many in a game and over the course of a season. I understand the player's frustration. But until there are better umps or some other change, all a player can do is adjust the best way he can.  It does help a hitter if he knows how a particular ump calls a game.

[Ducksnort]

3 hours ago, Green Line said:

Yes, they want everything to be correct.  Sometimes you have to accept that the umps make mistakes, just like managers do.

Should we replace TLR with a robot?  I think many would want that.

Your arguments are making zero sense

[harkness99]

4 hours ago, Green Line said:

Yes, they want everything to be correct.  Sometimes you have to accept that the umps make mistakes, just like managers do.

Should we replace TLR with a robot?  I think many would want that.

but instant gratification and everything to be correct are not the same things... they often are the opposite.. so that makes no sense.

you are also spewing if then fallacy like a mad man.

[CentralChamps21]

6 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

I've been doing it. Through 21 games we're at -9.91 runs from umpiring. I decided to do this because I've followed these accounts for years and have felt like the Sox frequently are at a disadvantage, but wanted to quantify it so that it didn't seem like whining.

Any chance you're tracking all of the teams? Would love to know what percentile that puts the Sox in.

[Quin]

4 hours ago, Green Line said:

Yes, they want everything to be correct.  Sometimes you have to accept that the umps make mistakes, just like managers do.

Should we replace TLR with a robot?  I think many would want that.

Lmao, this is my favorite complaint.

"They want everything to be correct."

Also, instant replay isn't instant gratification. It slows the game down and takes time to review to ensure the game is being called correctly.

Sounds like you just enjoy bad baseball.

[Vulture]

5 hours ago, Green Line said:

Yes, they want everything to be correct.  Sometimes you have to accept that the umps make mistakes, just like managers do.

Should we replace TLR with a robot?  I think many would want that.

You’re comparing the competitor with the arbiter. No one is watching for the performance of an umpire