What happened to Garrett Crochet's fastball?

[MikeKreevich]

Crochet's fastball is down 2 or 3 mph recently.  I haven't seen any mention of it.  Cause for concern or part of a plan?

And what's with his pants?  He looks like a little leaguer.

[Kyyle23]

I think he is trying to dial it down a bit so he doesn't overthrow his arm

[hogan873]

This has been discussed ad nauseum in other threads.  It is believed that the Sox are working with him on control and development of other pitches.  That, coupled with the injury during the playoff game, has contributed to his fastball being in the mid to upper 90s vs. upper 90s to 100.

His fastball at 96 is not nearly as effective as his fastball at 100 because it's pretty straight.  Look at Kopech's 94-97 mph fastballs that have a lot of movement as a recipe for success.  A 96 mph fastball that is straight as an arrow can be hit a long way.

I think Crochet will get some speed back.  But he'll need to continue to work on his secondary pitches so that his fastball is more effective, even at 96.

[kleedawg]

Also it was August/Sept when Crochet was hitting 102. He had built up arm strength and the weather was hot...much easier to get lose and let it go.

[YourWhatHurts]

Dialed down GC is still one of the top pen lefties in all of baseball.  I'm not going to criticize the Sox over him because he pitched basically nothing last year in college and only threw at the alt site and a few MLB IP which of course ended in an injury scare.  I think you can criticize the Sox a lot about the service time issue but not about being overly cautious.  I think they have to be.

I will guess he's in a role next season similar to Kopech's role this season and is targeted as a full-time SP in 2023.  That would be his last prearb year I believe.

[mmmmmbeeer]

It's hurting the effectiveness of his change-up, which is still sitting 92ish.  Not near enough of a gap between his FB and change piece.  I guess the positive side of that is that if his change-up velocity hasn't changed, his arm must still be capable of repeating his 4 seam velocity.  

Assuming it's a directive from Katz to bring down the velocity a bit and work on control, this serves as the second questionable decision I've seen Katz make (in my wholly unqualified opinion).  Crochet needs that 100-102MPH to dominate and Bummer needs to use his cutter more to be successful.  I can only assume Katz has talked Bummer into using his slider more than his cutter.

[Jack Parkman]

41 minutes ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

It's hurting the effectiveness of his change-up, which is still sitting 92ish.  Not near enough of a gap between his FB and change piece.  I guess the positive side of that is that if his change-up velocity hasn't changed, his arm must still be capable of repeating his 4 seam velocity.  

Assuming it's a directive from Katz to bring down the velocity a bit and work on control, this serves as the second questionable decision I've seen Katz make (in my wholly unqualified opinion).  Crochet needs that 100-102MPH to dominate and Bummer needs to use his cutter more to be successful.  I can only assume Katz has talked Bummer into using his slider more than his cutter.

That's not true actually, as Zack Grienke throws 89 mph fastballs and 87 mph changeups. He has lost velocity on his fastball over the years but his changeup velocity has stayed the same. That's actually pretty common. The same thing happened to John Danks, whose changeup was his best pitch but an 84 mph changeup when you're throwing 88 is different than an 84 mph changeup when you're throwing 94. 

Generally you want an 8-11 mph separation between the fastball and change. Right now Crochet has it at 4-5. 

He has said that he's working on his change grip because(according to Crochet himself his change is 87-88 mph during bullpens but during games it ends up 92-93 mph) 

that would be a more appropriate velocity gap. 

However, pitchers that throw upper 90s can get away with 90-91 mph changeups. 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[reiks12]

Considering kopechs velo is also down im sure its just part of their plan.

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, hogan873 said:

This has been discussed ad nauseum in other threads.  It is believed that the Sox are working with him on control and development of other pitches.  That, coupled with the injury during the playoff game, has contributed to his fastball being in the mid to upper 90s vs. upper 90s to 100.

His fastball at 96 is not nearly as effective as his fastball at 100 because it's pretty straight.  Look at Kopech's 94-97 mph fastballs that have a lot of movement as a recipe for success.  A 96 mph fastball that is straight as an arrow can be hit a long way.

I think Crochet will get some speed back.  But he'll need to continue to work on his secondary pitches so that his fastball is more effective, even at 96.

Because Kopech is going with almost all two seam, sinking or riding fastballs with heavier movement...but 2-3 mph less than a four seamer which tends to straighten out and get hit if it’s lower in the zone even at 98-101.  Even at the lower speeds, he’s either getting a lot of extension or there’s some deception going on because nobody’s jumping all over it like Dahl did with that flat slider that was poorly located.  Offspeed stuff effective enough to keep hitters off balance and guessing.

[ptatc]

It's the common baseball philosophy espoused by Cooper. Sacrifice velocity for control and save the injuries.

[harkness99]

i don't know how anyone can watch crotchett and thing he is anywhere near as effective as last year.

 

With 101 fastball he was scary... now he looks like a gas can waiting to get lit up.

 

his fastball is 96 and straight and his breaking stuff is inconsistent.

Edited April 26, 2021 by harkness99

[chitownsportsfan]

2 minutes ago, harkness99 said:

i don't know how anyone can watch crotchett and thing he is anywhere near as effective as last year.

 

With 101 fastball he was scary... now he looks like a gas can waiting to get lit up.

 

his fastball is 96 and straight and his breaking stuff is inconsistent.

he has 15 innings in MLB.

[harkness99]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

he has 15 innings in MLB.

yeah and? did you see me say "he will never be any good?"

 

I said comparing him last year to this year he looks way more vulnerable.

 

We will see I guess...

Edited April 26, 2021 by harkness99

[GermanSoxFan]

40 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Because Kopech is going with almost all two seam, sinking or riding fastballs with heavier movement...but 2-3 mph less than a four seamer which tends to straighten out and get hit if it’s lower in the zone even at 98-101.  Even at the lower speeds, he’s either getting a lot of extension or there’s some deception going on because nobody’s jumping all over it like Dahl did with that flat slider that was poorly located.  Offspeed stuff effective enough to keep hitters off balance and guessing.

Kopech doesn’t throw a two seam fastball. 

[chitownsportsfan]

Just now, harkness99 said:

yeah and? did you see me say "he will never be any good?"

 

I said comparing him last year to this year he looks way more vulnerable.

Of course he does because he's not throwing max effort on every pitch.  This is inevitable.  Did people really think he'd a) not lose velocity as he gets stretched out and b) would carry a 12 K/9 rate with a ZERO walk rate? 

Nobody should ever have the expectation that a guy will average 100 mph on his fastball.  He's at 96.8 this year, it's not like he's throwing 92 now.  He's taking a bit off to not rip his elbow off and attempt to potentially become a multi inning guy this year.

[harkness99]

 I get the plan.. just not sure it will work.

 

 

[chitownsportsfan]

Just now, harkness99 said:

 I get the plan.. just not sure it will work.

 

 

I get that people are scared because Don Cooper as a horrible influence for the last 3-5 years but this is a new era under Katz and the Sox' improved bio-mechanics team.  Until proven otherwise I have no reason to doubt them.  They clearly want to try and slowly turn him into a starter, people can doubt the plan, but that's the plan.

[GermanSoxFan]

Don Cooper gets a lot of hate, but they did the exact same thing with Sale. People here said they ruined Sale‘s potential. After the trade Boston let him loose and outside of one career year he hasnˋt topped 200 IP in 2018 and 2019 and hasn’t pitched for two years.

[caulfield12]

10 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

Kopech doesn’t throw a two seam fastball. 

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/michael-kopech-656629?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb
 

Well, I have no idea why the Rangers’ announcers were saying that repeatedly...since I was only able to listen on GameDay audio since it was 2 a.m. to 6 a.m. and my wife would have killed me for keeping her awake with the iPad screen light.

[SpringfieldFan]

49 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

Don Cooper gets a lot of hate, but they did the exact same thing with Sale. People here said they ruined Sale‘s potential. After the trade Boston let him loose and outside of one career year he hasnˋt topped 200 IP in 2018 and 2019 and hasn’t pitched for two years.

Would Garrit Cole be the other side of the argument?

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

1 hour ago, GermanSoxFan said:

Kopech doesn’t throw a two seam fastball. 

I believe he does.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Squirmin' for Yermin

[Greydawgfan1]

5 hours ago, MikeKreevich said:

Crochet's fastball is down 2 or 3 mph recently.  I haven't seen any mention of it.  Cause for concern or part of a plan?

And what's with his pants?  He looks like a little leaguer.

How many times does this need to be asked. It’s been discussed hundreds of times and they have said he is working on control while building back arm strength. Too many bandwagon fans 

[Chisoxfn]

29 minutes ago, SpringfieldFan said:

Would Garrit Cole be the other side of the argument?

Cole's transformation had more to do with increasing his spin rates and shifting from the Pirates pitch to contact/down in the zone philosphy vs. him shifting to max effort.  Basically Cole stopped throwing his 2 seamer, which he threw a lot of down in the zone to get contact and reduce his pitch count.  Now he throws his 4 seamer up - harder to hit - more swing and miss.

So maybe part of your point is - more workload because you are throwing more pitches - but it wasn't like Houston asked him to pitch max velocity at all time.  

[Dick Allen]

I think part of the reason he is down a little bit is it is colder and he probably isn't as loose.  If he were sitting at 95 all the time with a few 94s mixed in , I would be a little concerned, but he had a few 98s yesterday. As long as he stays healthy, those will be 100s in a few weeks.

[Jack Parkman]

32 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I think part of the reason he is down a little bit is it is colder and he probably isn't as loose.  If he were sitting at 95 all the time with a few 94s mixed in , I would be a little concerned, but he had a few 98s yesterday. As long as he stays healthy, those will be 100s in a few weeks.

Yesterday he was as low as 93 and as high as 98. Who knows? 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Jack Parkman