What happened to Garrett Crochet's fastball?

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

If he isn't going to be stretched out to being a SP, then him not throwing flames every inning kinda sucks 

[SpringfieldFan]

2 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

Cole's transformation had more to do with increasing his spin rates and shifting from the Pirates pitch to contact/down in the zone philosphy vs. him shifting to max effort.  Basically Cole stopped throwing his 2 seamer, which he threw a lot of down in the zone to get contact and reduce his pitch count.  Now he throws his 4 seamer up - harder to hit - more swing and miss.

So maybe part of your point is - more workload because you are throwing more pitches - but it wasn't like Houston asked him to pitch max velocity at all time.  

Understood, and good points. My point was just the basic one that he, even as a starter, continues to regularly throw 100. I believe he always threw with that velocity but Houston didn't have him dial it back, instead turning it into a four seamer with added spin rate.

Edited April 26, 2021 by SpringfieldFan

[joejoedairy]

He hasn't been nearly as electric as his few innings last year were but he's still been highly effective. 

If he could field his position he'd have hardly given up anything so far this season. 

[Harold's Leg Lift]

Perfectly said, Smoltzy.  They're not developing Crochet as a pitcher they're developing him as a thrower.  He's not learning how to pitch throwing at max effort once or twice a  week and when his velocity drops he has nothing to fall back on because he only knows one way to do it.  

[Bob Sacamano]

I had to drop him in my leagues in favor of other relievers getting holds. Not a fan of his lack of velocity either.

Edit: not lack but decreased.

Edited April 27, 2021 by manbearpuig

[ron883]

I still hate the way the Sox are handling him. Sure, he looked good in a very small sample size last year. He's a guy with a huge arm that had big time issues pitching in college. They're giving him absolutely no time to work on pitches or hone his craft in the minors. 

[bmags]

1 hour ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Perfectly said, Smoltzy.  They're not developing Crochet as a pitcher they're developing him as a thrower.  He's not learning how to pitch throwing at max effort once or twice a  week and when his velocity drops he has nothing to fall back on because he only knows one way to do it.  

Not sold on this at all. You remove velocity from the pitcher they may have never made it to begin with, regardless of moxy.

And if anything letting him develop in the bullpen is an old school move, that used to be a lot more common. And it's really hard to use this frame of reference for Garret Crochet when it no longer appears he is throwing at max effort.

And what else can we see from Crochet this year?

Last year, his pitch mix was 85% fastball, 10% slider, 5% changeup. f

This year it is 69% fastball, 19% slider, 12% changeup. His movement has improved, with his fastball riding better and slider improved.

I don't see the signs that Garret Crochet isn't learning how to be a pitcher this year in the bullpen, this would make more sense to me if he was still just out there riding 101 mph fastballs 85% of the time like last year. 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

Not sold on this at all. You remove velocity from the pitcher they may have never made it to begin with, regardless of moxy.

And if anything letting him develop in the bullpen is an old school move, that used to be a lot more common. And it's really hard to use this frame of reference for Garret Crochet when it no longer appears he is throwing at max effort.

And what else can we see from Crochet this year?

Last year, his pitch mix was 85% fastball, 10% slider, 5% changeup. f

This year it is 69% fastball, 19% slider, 12% changeup. His movement has improved, with his fastball riding better and slider improved.

I don't see the signs that Garret Crochet isn't learning how to be a pitcher this year in the bullpen, this would make more sense to me if he was still just out there riding 101 mph fastballs 85% of the time like last year. 

Swing and miss rates on slider and change?  How many balls vs. strikes on those two pitches?

[SpringfieldFan]

4 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Perfectly said, Smoltzy.  They're not developing Crochet as a pitcher they're developing him as a thrower.  He's not learning how to pitch throwing at max effort once or twice a  week and when his velocity drops he has nothing to fall back on because he only knows one way to do it.  

I just flat out don't understand. Why can't a pitcher use analytics and "pitch" and all that but still keep his fastball at 100mph when he throws it? 

[35thstreetswarm]

some room for interpretation here, but this doesn’t exactly sound like “I’ve got 100 in the tank whenever I want it, I’m just sacrificing velocity for longevity and control”.  

["The Kids Can Play"]

On 4/26/2021 at 7:53 AM, hogan873 said:

This has been discussed ad nauseum in other threads.  It is believed that the Sox are working with him on control and development of other pitches.  That, coupled with the injury during the playoff game, has contributed to his fastball being in the mid to upper 90s vs. upper 90s to 100.

His fastball at 96 is not nearly as effective as his fastball at 100 because it's pretty straight.  Look at Kopech's 94-97 mph fastballs that have a lot of movement as a recipe for success.  A 96 mph fastball that is straight as an arrow can be hit a long way.

I think Crochet will get some speed back.  But he'll need to continue to work on his secondary pitches so that his fastball is more effective, even at 96.

Then maybe the solution and plan for Katz should be to get Crochet in the off season to learn from Kopech in how he gets more spin and rise on his 96 mph fastballs. I agree with you that Kopech's 95-97 mph fastballs have nasty movement and rise and why they are so hard to hit. I also agree with you that Crochet needs to strengthen and refine his secondary pitches. 

[bmags]

1 hour ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

some room for interpretation here, but this doesn’t exactly sound like “I’ve got 100 in the tank whenever I want it, I’m just sacrificing velocity for longevity and control”.  

No it does not.

[Vote4Pedro]

1 hour ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

some room for interpretation here, but this doesn’t exactly sound like “I’ve got 100 in the tank whenever I want it, I’m just sacrificing velocity for longevity and control”.  

Yep, I always have thought he lost it more than he ended up toning it down to get through the season. He just hasn’t been the same guy since whatever injury happened in the playoffs.

[35thstreetswarm]

I see Crochet's on the IL.  I'm really bearish on him.  I think more than likely his arm falls off, or maybe it doesn't and he's a guy who throws...mid 90s, like everybody else in the majors nowadays.  Hope I'm wrong but I think last year's No. 1 pick was a huge whiff.

[Jack Parkman]

34 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

I see Crochet's on the IL.  I'm really bearish on him.  I think more than likely his arm falls off, or maybe it doesn't and he's a guy who throws...mid 90s, like everybody else in the majors nowadays.  Hope I'm wrong but I think last year's No. 1 pick was a huge whiff.

Was worth the risk, it's hard to get really good players at 11 or later and Crochet is an arm you bet on. 

It's always possible when a pitcher gains velocity that quickly that all of it doesn't stick. 

96-98 from a LHP is still damn good velocity. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, ejm3 said:

Then maybe the solution and plan for Katz should be to get Crochet in the off season to learn from Kopech in how he gets more spin and rise on his 96 mph fastballs. I agree with you that Kopech's 95-97 mph fastballs have nasty movement and rise and why they are so hard to hit. I also agree with you that Crochet needs to strengthen and refine his secondary pitches. 

Crochet already has a ton of spin and carry on his heater.