The TLR Manager Thread

[caulfield12]

36 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

How did the GM revitalize Buster Posey? ? 

 

I‘d argue that taking a year off was way more beneficial…

 

Not buying the Gaints btw. they are the 2016 White Sox

I just think they've moved on from the Bumgarner Era....fresh approach, brought in a lot of interesting pitching talent like Gausman and Desclafini, Alex Wood, even Aaron Sanchez.  So far this year, they've collectively been remarkable, and have given Posey a reason to get excited to come out to the park, having so many experienced vets to work with again.

Their everyday starting line-up looks like a hot mess, but somehow they keep getting it done.  

 

Yes, sitting out 2020 and getting 100% healthy for Buster was a KEY factor...but they used to push him to play every year because the GM was constantly "rebuilding on the fly" (see KW) and they needed his presence in the line-up to remain competitive.

 

 

[caulfield12]

28 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Nobody's responding to my comment about a batter actually doing the position player pitcher and the opposing team a favor by trying to hit homers only against position players no matter if it's 3-0 or 3-1.

A pitcher could get killed on a smash up the middle on a 45 mph pitch. The uppercut is safe for the pitcher and good for the fans who like HRs. Besides the analysts only want HR or K to be the result on every at bat. So quit changing your minds, baseball.

This 3-0 pitch unwritten rule may be the silliest of all. Tony might hit a player with a bat if he bunted to break up a no-hitter. That's such a no-no. ... Also stealing a base when u have a big lead. Tony will lambaste Timmy if he ever does that. ... Best post on here was Dick Allen saying the opponent should walk any hitter that gets the count to 3-0 off a position player pitcher. Put him on base to protect the oh-so-important unwritten rules.

So much MORE likely to get killed on a 95+ mph fastball lined up the middle at 105-120 exit velo (see Shohei Ohtani).

[The Beast]

1 hour ago, tray said:

I would not be surprised to see Yermin get thrown at again and a bench-clearing fight that might get players injured or suspended.

That could have been avoided with some common sense.

 

Yeah, the manager could have shut his mouth and not made this a bigger deal than it needed to be. This was a non-story until La Russa talked about it.

Edited May 21, 2021 by The Beast

[thxfrthmmrs]

5 hours ago, tray said:

It is done all the time in other professional sports and you know it.

In  the NFL, quarterbacks take a knee , several times if necessary  to run out the clock instead of running up the score.

In the NBA  BOTH teams put in scrubs to finish out the game, and then dribble out the last seconds instead of sending LeBron out to dunk one in yo face.

Yermin did what he did and should have taken matters into his own hands when they threw at him. He decided to swing for the fences on a 3-0 pitch from a position player while up 11 runs in the 9th. Ridiculous.

Some youngsters like to create problems and have daddy clean it up later.  Maybe Yermin should charge the mound next time. Don't wait for Tony to explain what you did and why after the game and then characterize Baldelli's response.

Tony  has been doing one helluva job with this team.  If we win the Division with an outfield filled in with Minor league talent (and Rookie Vaughn hitting .225 with 2 HR) , he will be up for Manager of the Year.

 

 

Couldn’t think of worse comparisons.

[VAfan]

I've said my piece about this topic for the most part, but I'd like to add one more point.

Tony LaRussa put the take sign 3-0 to Yermin up 15-4 in the 9th inning. Take signs are not controversial, and most of the time, no one other than the batting team even knows the sign is on. 

Why did he put up the take sign? 

1. Because he knew it would piss off the Twins and cause them to retaliate against his player, which they did the next night. He didn't want to risk getting his player hurt.

2. But an even better reason to give the take sign is because then there wouldn't have been all the BS written about this situation, he wouldn't have to admonish Yermin for ignoring the sign, etc.  And NO ONE would have known he gave the take sign 3-0. 

Do all of you trashing TLR really think a 3-0 swing was worth all this vitriol?  

If may have actually cost the Sox the next game by waking up a sleeping Miguel Sano, who jacked 3 meaningful home runs the next night. 

Also, remember that Tony LaRussa didn't write the rule - but he knew from experience where the line was and he didn't think hitting a meaningless HR (if he did) was worth crossing it because of the danger and the crap that followed it. 

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Couldn’t think of worse comparisons.

Kapler, Francona and Bob Melvin are much more deserving of accolades with their teams.

Heck, would much prefer Dusty Baker, even.

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, VAfan said:

I've said my piece about this topic for the most part, but I'd like to add one more point.

Tony LaRussa put the take sign 3-0 to Yermin up 15-4 in the 9th inning. Take signs are not controversial, and most of the time, no one other than the batting team even knows the sign is on. 

Why did he put up the take sign? 

1. Because he knew it would piss off the Twins and cause them to retaliate against his player, which they did the next night. He didn't want to risk getting his player hurt.

2. But an even better reason to give the take sign is because then there wouldn't have been all the BS written about this situation, he wouldn't have to admonish Yermin for ignoring the sign, etc.  And NO ONE would have known he gave the take sign 3-0. 

Do all of you trashing TLR really think a 3-0 swing was worth all this vitriol?  

If may have actually cost the Sox the next game by waking up a sleeping Miguel Sano, who jacked 3 meaningful home runs the next night. 

Also, remember that Tony LaRussa didn't write the rule - but he knew from experience where the line was and he didn't think hitting a meaningless HR (if he did) was worth crossing it because of the danger and the crap that followed it. 

 

Nobody can prove that he did or didn't.

McEwing hasn't said much one way or the other, not wanting to be seen as second-guessing his own manager.

There's absolutely no video evidence that LaRussa came to the top of the dugout steps as the pitch was about to be made shouting "take, take, take!!!"

 

It's just his word.  Not to mention how fast Astudillo was getting the ball and throwing it, and the fact that MOST MLB teams don't even give signs anymore in that type of "blowout" scenario where the only goal is just to get to the end of the game as quickly as possible without any injuries, even to back-ups.

 

[DoUEvenShift]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

There's absolutely no video evidence that LaRussa came to the top of the dugout steps as the pitch was about to be made shouting "take, take, take!!!"

I believe I did see this. Let me check if I can find something. 

Edit: I saw him out of the dugout AFTER the homerun as he was rounding the bases and he pointed sternly at Yermin with his back to the camera. (Probably saying something like "I told you to take." Still checking tho.

 

Not that this changes anything.

Edited May 21, 2021 by DoUEvenShift

[southsider2k5]

14 minutes ago, VAfan said:

I've said my piece about this topic for the most part, but I'd like to add one more point.

Tony LaRussa put the take sign 3-0 to Yermin up 15-4 in the 9th inning. Take signs are not controversial, and most of the time, no one other than the batting team even knows the sign is on. 

Why did he put up the take sign? 

1. Because he knew it would piss off the Twins and cause them to retaliate against his player, which they did the next night. He didn't want to risk getting his player hurt.

2. But an even better reason to give the take sign is because then there wouldn't have been all the BS written about this situation, he wouldn't have to admonish Yermin for ignoring the sign, etc.  And NO ONE would have known he gave the take sign 3-0. 

Do all of you trashing TLR really think a 3-0 swing was worth all this vitriol?  

If may have actually cost the Sox the next game by waking up a sleeping Miguel Sano, who jacked 3 meaningful home runs the next night. 

Also, remember that Tony LaRussa didn't write the rule - but he knew from experience where the line was and he didn't think hitting a meaningless HR (if he did) was worth crossing it because of the danger and the crap that followed it. 

I don't know why you keep making these claims when Tony has directly contradicted them. He also never defended his player when it did happen. 

[Jerksticks]

8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I don't know why you keep making these claims when Tony has directly contradicted them. He also never defended his player when it did happen. 

?

24 minutes ago, VAfan said:

I've said my piece about this topic for the most part, but I'd like to add one more point.

Tony LaRussa put the take sign 3-0 to Yermin up 15-4 in the 9th inning. Take signs are not controversial, and most of the time, no one other than the batting team even knows the sign is on. 

Why did he put up the take sign? 

1. Because he knew it would piss off the Twins and cause them to retaliate against his player, which they did the next night. He didn't want to risk getting his player hurt.

2. But an even better reason to give the take sign is because then there wouldn't have been all the BS written about this situation, he wouldn't have to admonish Yermin for ignoring the sign, etc.  And NO ONE would have known he gave the take sign 3-0. 

Do all of you trashing TLR really think a 3-0 swing was worth all this vitriol?  

If may have actually cost the Sox the next game by waking up a sleeping Miguel Sano, who jacked 3 meaningful home runs the next night. 

Also, remember that Tony LaRussa didn't write the rule - but he knew from experience where the line was and he didn't think hitting a meaningless HR (if he did) was worth crossing it because of the danger and the crap that followed it. 

I don’t get why this is so hard to understand.  

Edited May 21, 2021 by Jerksticks

[hi8is]

13 minutes ago, DoUEvenShift said:

I believe I did see this. Let me check if I can find something. 

Edit: I saw him out of the dugout AFTER the homerun as he was rounding the bases and he pointed sternly at Yermin with his back to the camera. (Probably saying something like "I told you to take." Still checking tho.

 

Not that this changes anything.

There’s a Twitter video from the crowd where you can hear him scream TAKE just before the homer. ?

[DoUEvenShift]

12 minutes ago, hi8is said:

There’s a Twitter video from the crowd where you can hear him scream TAKE just before the homer. ?

 Yea that's probably where I saw it but it's hard to sift through old twitter posts/videos. 

Again though, I think its kind of irrelevant. I was kinda-pro TLR hire before the season, indifferent after the first month or so (figured it would take a bit for him to understand his players and the game after 10+ years)

If Yermin  blatantly ignored a sign you can get mad at him, sure. But why publicly throw him under the bus? And then you defend the opposing pitcher when he throws at him? I know a lot of people here don't like Ozzie but the one thing I think most of us can agree on is that he defended his players right or wrong. Correct me if i'm wrong but I don't think I've seen TLR come out and argue 1 time this season??? Not saying I want a hot-head but like come on.... 

I still hope and wish he does a good job the rest of the season but this old school 1950 baseball mantra is dumb as fuck. We are losing viewers/fans and you get players who bring young/new attraction to the game (batflip, etc. etc.)  and you want to turn the new generation away???????????? Doesn't make sense to me. Anyway i'm ranting. Go Sox and fuck the Yankees


 

Edited May 21, 2021 by DoUEvenShift

[BFirebird]

Whether Yermin missed a take sign or not is not the main issue as far as I see it. To me the problem is you handle these situations IN HOUSE. No reason to say anything about it and no reason whatsoever to call your player “clueless.”  
 

Secondly, no reason whatsoever to not back your player up when someone throws behind him. Your job is to have YOUR players backs not worry about some stupid “unwritten rules” and take signs. It’s ridiculous. 
 

Lastly, no reason to talk about Lance Lynn’s comments the way he did either.  “He has a locker and I have an office.”  That’s just ignorant BS.   This ass clown needs his walking papers.  Completely unnecessary  and hopefully it doesn’t backfire and they decide to win in spite of his on the field and off the field errors.

I hope TA7 rallies the troops.

[Whitewashed in '05]

46 minutes ago, VAfan said:

I've said my piece about this topic for the most part, but I'd like to add one more point.

Tony LaRussa put the take sign 3-0 to Yermin up 15-4 in the 9th inning. Take signs are not controversial, and most of the time, no one other than the batting team even knows the sign is on. 

Why did he put up the take sign? 

1. Because he knew it would piss off the Twins and cause them to retaliate against his player, which they did the next night. He didn't want to risk getting his player hurt.

2. But an even better reason to give the take sign is because then there wouldn't have been all the BS written about this situation, he wouldn't have to admonish Yermin for ignoring the sign, etc.  And NO ONE would have known he gave the take sign 3-0. 

Do all of you trashing TLR really think a 3-0 swing was worth all this vitriol?  

If may have actually cost the Sox the next game by waking up a sleeping Miguel Sano, who jacked 3 meaningful home runs the next night. 

Also, remember that Tony LaRussa didn't write the rule - but he knew from experience where the line was and he didn't think hitting a meaningless HR (if he did) was worth crossing it because of the danger and the crap that followed it. 

It all had to do with Sano deciding to wake up?

I take it he made the conscious decision to go back to sleep vs Gio?

[caulfield12]

37 minutes ago, DoUEvenShift said:

I believe I did see this. Let me check if I can find something. 

Edit: I saw him out of the dugout AFTER the homerun as he was rounding the bases and he pointed sternly at Yermin with his back to the camera. (Probably saying something like "I told you to take." Still checking tho.

 

Not that this changes anything.

Who's even looking down at the 3B coach for signs in the first place in that situation?

I think TLR simply meant some kind of "common wisdom" meant that there was an automatic take sign IMPLIED...the example of 577 pitches with 3-0 counts and 10+ run leads in the last twenty years and nobody swung away.

 

The Tatis situation with a 7 run lead in Texas (FWIW) was earlier in the game, same 3-0 count, but pretty big difference between 7 and 10-11 runs IMO...and we all know from watching Sox games there how quickly runs can pile up in Texas from June through early September.

 

[South Side Fireworks Man]

2 hours ago, tray said:

I would not be surprised to see Yermin get thrown at again and a bench-clearing fight that might get players injured or suspended.

That could have been avoided with some common sense.

 

Why would he get thrown at again?  Even if you totally believe in the sacred "unwritten law" about not swinging at 3-0 during a blowout, is it really that big of a deal to throw at the guy a second time even after the opposing manager groveled with a public and private apology and your pitcher was fined and suspended for three games and your manager was also fined and suspended a game?  Does it make any sense to continue this and throw at the guy again??  

If they do throw at Yermin again over this silly shit, the pitcher and manager should be suspended for 50 games.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

59 minutes ago, VAfan said:

I've said my piece about this topic for the most part, but I'd like to add one more point.

Tony LaRussa put the take sign 3-0 to Yermin up 15-4 in the 9th inning. Take signs are not controversial, and most of the time, no one other than the batting team even knows the sign is on. 

Why did he put up the take sign? 

1. Because he knew it would piss off the Twins and cause them to retaliate against his player, which they did the next night. He didn't want to risk getting his player hurt.

2. But an even better reason to give the take sign is because then there wouldn't have been all the BS written about this situation, he wouldn't have to admonish Yermin for ignoring the sign, etc.  And NO ONE would have known he gave the take sign 3-0. 

Do all of you trashing TLR really think a 3-0 swing was worth all this vitriol?  

If may have actually cost the Sox the next game by waking up a sleeping Miguel Sano, who jacked 3 meaningful home runs the next night. 

Also, remember that Tony LaRussa didn't write the rule - but he knew from experience where the line was and he didn't think hitting a meaningless HR (if he did) was worth crossing it because of the danger and the crap that followed it. 

How have you survived life this long? 

[DoUEvenShift]

13 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Who's even looking down at the 3B coach for signs in the first place in that situation?

I think TLR simply meant some kind of "common wisdom" meant that there was an automatic take sign IMPLIED...the example of 577 pitches with 3-0 counts and 10+ run leads in the last twenty years and nobody swung away.

 

The Tatis situation with a 7 run lead in Texas (FWIW) was earlier in the game, same 3-0 count, but pretty big difference between 7 and 10-11 runs IMO...and we all know from watching Sox games there how quickly runs can pile up in Texas from June through early September.

 

I just re-watched the Tatis at bat. He didn't even glance towards 3rd. Yerm did, like he was looking for a sign. I'm agreeing with you here but just think that aspect of the at bat was different. 

 Here is Tatis not looking at all at 3rd (2:20ish) 

Here is Yermin looking at the 3b coach/dugout (:19 secs or so)

 

Again, I think this is dumb as fuck but it seems to me Yermin ignored a sign. BTW I bought a Mercedes jersey and stand by him, think TLR is a dumbass. Just saying he may have ignored a sign. 

[ShoeLessRob]

I guess all we can do is move on and wait til next week when TLR does something else “old school” and “protects the game”. 
 

It would be great if these old goons would just realize that the best way to protect the game, is adapt and grow WITH it instead of holding onto old archaic views and AGAINST it. 

[harkness99]

25 minutes ago, DoUEvenShift said:

I just re-watched the Tatis at bat. He didn't even glance towards 3rd. Yerm did, like he was looking for a sign. I'm agreeing with you here but just think that aspect of the at bat was different. 

 Here is Tatis not looking at all at 3rd (2:20ish) 

Here is Yermin looking at the 3b coach/dugout (:19 secs or so)

 

Again, I think this is dumb as fuck but it seems to me Yermin ignored a sign. BTW I bought a Mercedes jersey and stand by him, think TLR is a dumbass. Just saying he may have ignored a sign. 

lol what? out of the entire at bat he looks at the dugout for maybe 1 second... how can you conclude he ignored a sign?

In the video you posted here he doesn't look long enough for any sign.

I watched it 3 times - he is not looking for any signs no way...

Edited May 21, 2021 by harkness99

[RagahRagah]

2 hours ago, Texsox said:

Everyone gets attached to baseball written and unwritten rules. Some say the DH ruined the game. Seven inning games have people acting like their hair is on fire. I believe Nine inning games have gotten too long. Let’s make every game seven innings. I’ve always been for full platoon. But all the traditionalists go crazy. God let’s move this game into the 21st century.

I at least am open to discussing these things. If we want to be progressive here, let's not be half pregnant.

[DoUEvenShift]

2 minutes ago, harkness99 said:

lol what? out of the entire at bat he looks at the dugout for maybe 1 second... how can you conclude he ignored a sign?

How long do you think it takes to read a sign at the Major League level?

A 95 MPH fastball takes 0.4 seconds to reach home plate. Are you saying a professional player can't read a 1+ second sign from his coach when they are trained to look there right before the pitch? 

[RagahRagah]

1 hour ago, Jerksticks said:

?

I don’t get why this is so hard to understand.  

Because it's convoluted and nonsensical. 

[DoUEvenShift]

 

7 minutes ago, harkness99 said:

lol what? out of the entire at bat he looks at the dugout for maybe 1 second... how can you conclude he ignored a sign?

And for the record I never said I "concluded" he ignored the sign. I said "it seems to me".  Big difference if you want to argue semantics. 

[harkness99]

15 minutes ago, DoUEvenShift said:

 

And for the record I never said I "concluded" he ignored the sign. I said "it seems to me".  Big difference if you want to argue semantics. 

 

18 minutes ago, DoUEvenShift said:

How long do you think it takes to read a sign at the Major League level?

A 95 MPH fastball takes 0.4 seconds to reach home plate. Are you saying a professional player can't read a 1+ second sign from his coach when they are trained to look there right before the pitch? 

mlb players are probably the fastest - but takes a couple seconds typically....

He never even looks towards the dugout the entire at bat besides once for like half a second.

I'm not saying without a doubt there was no sign - im just saying from that video really don't see how it can be concluded that he ignored or missed a sign.

Edited May 21, 2021 by harkness99