The TLR Manager Thread

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Well, the second paragraph really doesn't describe this series at all. You say that the availability of Kopech and Crochet is forcing guys into multi-inning roles - but take a look at the voyage this series and how it turned into losses and that doesn't show up. Rather, it all hangs on LaRussa.

Bummer pitched today on normal rest for a starter - he last pitched last Tuesday. Heuer pitched today on the same rest. Hendricks pitched today on 3 days rest - he threw an inning on Wednesday. Now really, with that context, was it the unavailability of relievers forcing guys into these roles? At least on Friday, they were literally all available, but LaRussa was saving Bummer, Hendricks, and Heuer for what, the 13th inning? Marshall for 2 innings was totally LaRussa's choice. 

Furthermore, and this one's rather big - LaRussa went to Foster on Saturday with the Yankees up 3 and Foster got 3 outs in 7 batters and the lead doubled. Fine, maybe the White Sox weren't hitting Gerrit Cole, and it didn't matter whether the lead was 1 run, 3 runs, or 6 runs, so bringing in Foster and waving the white flag wasn't worth getting bent out of shape about. But then who else did they use once the game was out of reach, in a 7 run game in the 8th inning? Crochet. So, what exactly forced the White Sox into using all their relievers today and then having to plan for how to have a pitcher available in the 10th? Part Keuchel being blah, but part the fact that LaRussa wasted Crochet in the bottom of the 8th inning of a 7 run game the day before, after he had already waived the white flag in the game by pitching Foster, so they couldn't call Crochet out for 2 innings on Sunday if they had needed him.

So is it the restrictions on Kopech and Crochet that are causing odd usages, or is it LaRussa himself? At least this series, LaRussa. 

One other point. In 2019, Liam Hendriks pitched 85 innings As of right now, Hendriks is on pace to pitch 65 innings. The only one on pace for more than 68 innings out of the White Sox's bullpen is Kopech. So, could he, one of their better relievers still, be available for more? Frankly, darn right, and that could very well make this bullpen better. 

I spoke in generalities and when you do that of course you can pick out instances where it isn't true. That is common sense. Plus I also said LaRussa isnt a good manager so that also applies.  I never said LaRussa handled the BP perfectly I just that his options are limited. If you want perfection it can't be found. Things do vary from series to series as you pointed out .

Maybe Bummer and Hendricks just need more work to get back into a groove and the others less but it still hurts not having Kopech and Crochet when you need them more than you need the Foster, Ruiz, Marshall, Heuer. Maybe get Detwiler back for a multiple inning role to free Kopech . But if you free Kopech for a more prominent late inning role, he won't be prepping for a late season role as a starter. But as of now if you want to win more games Kopech should be used in a  different role and once the Sox grab another reliever and get Robert and Jimenez back you can think about getting him to starting if they need him for that. Crochet will still be babied to keep his arm healthy butmaybe soon they start giving him more innings. We have no idea what the Sox are actually doing with him this season.

[southsider2k5]

It is probably also fair to point out that the old Cooper/Renteria group was very mechanical and predictable in how they typically deployed their relievers.  Guys had fairly set roles, and they didn't really deviate from them unless there was a particularly galling failure by a reliever.  Tony is a LOT more unpredictable, and there might be a case to be made that the relievers themselves are trying to figure out their own comfort zones here, which could be contributing to a lot of slow starts in that pen.

[JoeyCoralFanClub]

3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

So I figured out what I want to do with yesterday's game in the list. It fits in the list, but it isn't bolded because there's not an obvious, catastrophic decision, and "Aaron Bummer should be able to get an out against the bottom of the Yankee order" is not an obviously impossible standard. But at the same time, you can see how the decisions on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday all cascaded together to contribute to another L.

1-Apr    Failing to make review time window, Leury starts opening day, no pinch hitter for him late.
3-Apr    Bullpen Usage - Bummer never used, Marshall allowed to blow game in the 9th.
4-Apr    Bullpen usage - Hendriks not used in the 9th, Ruiz and Foster blow it.
    *Several times could have PH for Leury or Hamilton, not done
7-Apr    Bullpen usage - Foster comes in with Bummer and Hendriks needing work, gives up 5 runs. 
11-Apr    Couple of poorly thought out bunts, pinch running for Mercedes early left no backup Ofs
13-Apr    Williams hits 5th, Lamb hits 7th, Mercedes benched against Bieber. Could have kept Hendriks out to start the 10th.
27-Apr    Attempts to kill Lucas Giolito. "We were looking for a single there." Insists postgame that he was awake.
5-May    Messes up double-switch, runs team out of 10th inning, rulebook read to him by reporter.
17-May    The Yermin Mercedes incident.
21-May    Bullpen Usage. Day after offday, only Hendricks pitched on Wednesday so nearly entire bullpen available. Left Marshall out for 9th inning against Yankee 3-4-5 after already pitching in the 8th did not pull him even when runners got on. Did not shift anyone up the middle against Judge, who singled through the spot where a shift should have been.
23-May    Bullpen Usage - Crochet used in mopup duty in 7 run game day before, so unavailable. Hendriks and Bummer on extra long rest, so rust possible. LaRussa keeps Bummer out for the 9th to save Hendricks for 10th, Bummer loads bases before Hendriks comes in. Hendriks walks in winning run.
    
    Bolded are games where managerial decisions are particularly high leverage in a loss. All items on the list cannot be assumed to be wins with a better manager, these are only high leverage mistakes that contributed to a loss.
 

This is a textbook example of Monday morning managing. You could do this second guessing on bullpen usage and lineup construction for any manager after any loss. The only really egregious mistake here is the May 5th extra inning rulebook debacle. That was totally unacceptable in the modern era of information.

Larussa hasn't been perfect but no manager is. These guys are all professionals so let's hope they can put the Yermin 3 0 drama behind them and focus on winning baseball games.

Larussa has the team in first place right now with a roster that has 6 AAAA players on it. That is 24% of the roster. Hopefully Hahn brings in some reinforcements, Eloy and Robert return in September, and the Sox go on a deep run in October!

["The Kids Can Play"]

On 5/21/2021 at 11:11 AM, ChiSox59 said:

The craziest thing about this manager situation - I legitimately despised Ricky's in-game management.  It was horrible, and at the time, I thought just about anyone would be a better in game tactician.  Fast forward 8 months and we have a man who will likely finish his career 2nd all time in MLB managerial wins, and I would literally do anything to have Ricky back at the helm.  Still would disagree a lot with his on field decisions, but at least he was a fantastic man who everyone in the clubhouse loved playing for.  

Truly an amazing example of the grass isn't always greener.  Have to imagine Rick Hahn has very similar feelings at the moment.  

I don't think Hahn regrets firing Renteria, as he might have been a fun manager to play for, but he was just as bad as TLR in game time management and strategy. I think what Hahn regrets most is his pompous senile owner, who didn't let him as the GM/VP make his own decision on who should be the manager to replace Renteria. LOL!

["The Kids Can Play"]

20 hours ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

This is seriously getting out of hand.  Someone in the FO (Rick Hahn) needs to go to JR and issue an ultimatum.  There's absolutely nothing to indicate TLR is a competent manager for any team, much less this team.

Time to start calling your season ticket reps.

I agree with you but this is only going to happen when Rick and Kenny both agree to sit down with Jerry and force the issue of getting rid of TLR. Although realistically the senile and pompous Reinsdorf will continue to be his typical clueless and naive self and tell them no. 

["The Kids Can Play"]

19 hours ago, fathom said:

Hate him

Bingo! Winner winner, chicken dinner! 

[southsider2k5]

29 minutes ago, JoeyCoralFanClub said:

This is a textbook example of Monday morning managing. You could do this second guessing on bullpen usage and lineup construction for any manager after any loss. The only really egregious mistake here is the May 5th extra inning rulebook debacle. That was totally unacceptable in the modern era of information.

Larussa hasn't been perfect but no manager is. These guys are all professionals so let's hope they can put the Yermin 3 0 drama behind them and focus on winning baseball games.

Larussa has the team in first place right now with a roster that has 6 AAAA players on it. That is 24% of the roster. Hopefully Hahn brings in some reinforcements, Eloy and Robert return in September, and the Sox go on a deep run in October!

Except this is all being discussed in real time, and not after the fact.

 

[The Beast]

Nightengale’s USA Today piece was a nice PR response from JR.

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, The Beast said:

Nightengale’s USA Today piece was a nice PR response from JR.

Which is why Nightengale is the one who breaks Sox news nationally.  He prints JR's side of the story, and in return, he gets the scoops.

["The Kids Can Play"]

19 hours ago, wegner said:

What ultimatum do you mean?  It's very possible in the fictional situation where Rick went to Uncle Jerry and said it is him or me, Reinsdorf would just name LaRussa GM and Field Manager.

In that fictional scenario, if Reinsdorf was dumb enough, which I guess we know he is, to actually make such an absurd decision of letting Rick Hahn go and keeping TLR and makin him manager/GM, then you will have witnessed one of the dumbest owner decisions in the history of baseball. Absolutely for sure Reinsdorf would have finalized his legacy as the dumbest and worst owner in sports history. News flash to all the TLR defenders on this forum who think RH isn't that valuable or excellent as the Sox GM/VP...The day RH leaves or is fired, RH will have a ton of teams bidding for his services. When that happens, Jerry will be setting this franchise back so far that the thought alone, is sickening and depressing.

[Jose Abreu]

6 minutes ago, The Beast said:

Nightengale’s USA Today piece was a nice PR response from JR.

It very conveniently only included comments from Jim Leyland and Walt Jocketty, and their only real argument was that the White Sox have a good record. I read it expecting it to be bad, but I wrongly assumed that there would at least be some nuance

[SCCWS]

17 minutes ago, "The Kids Can Play" said:

I agree with you but this is only going to happen when Rick and Kenny both agree to sit down with Jerry and force the issue of getting rid of TLR. Although realistically the senile and pompous Reinsdorf will continue to be his typical clueless and naive self and tell them no. 

They won't even try. Unfortunately JR can look at the standings and see TLR "has" the team with  one of the best records in baseball. There is no way in hell he is going to fire his "friend" while the team is winning. Now if they are struggling to make the playoffs come late summer, then maybe Hahn/Williams can approach the altar

["The Kids Can Play"]

10 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

They won't even try. Unfortunately JR can look at the standings and see TLR "has" the team with  one of the best records in baseball. There is no way in hell he is going to fire his "friend" while the team is winning. Now if they are struggling to make the playoffs come late summer, then maybe Hahn/Williams can approach the altar

Yes first place now, but based on this 3 game series with NYY, you can clearly see it isn't a confidence the Sox stopped hitting and pitching right after the national embarrassment and stupidity of TLR's remarks about Yermin. I'm sure it couldn't also be from the heavy dense smothering of the team swagger and having fun aspect, that were drained from them as a team. I'm also sure it cant be that the team knows the manager doesn't have their back. I'm also couldn't be that the team is playing so poorly because of the mindset of walking on eggshells around TLR. 

It's shameful and disgusting TLR doesn't have the wisdom and people skills to know it would be the right thing to apologize to Yermin. It's also sad the arrogant and outdated TLR can't call for a team meeting to apologize to the team and try and get them back on his page. 

 

 

 

[YourWhatHurts]

Arguably TLR's biggest failure with the whole Yerminator fiasco has been his inability to stop talking about it.  Even Evan Marshall does a better job putting out the flames than Tony.  If it looks interesting to him he can't leave it alone, unless for example it's a can of O'Douls.

[JoeyCoralFanClub]

1 hour ago, "The Kids Can Play" said:

In that fictional scenario, if Reinsdorf was dumb enough, which I guess we know he is, to actually make such an absurd decision of letting Rick Hahn go and keeping TLR and makin him manager/GM, then you will have witnessed one of the dumbest owner decisions in the history of baseball. Absolutely for sure Reinsdorf would have finalized his legacy as the dumbest and worst owner in sports history. News flash to all the TLR defenders on this forum who think RH isn't that valuable or excellent as the Sox GM/VP...The day RH leaves or is fired, RH will have a ton of teams bidding for his services. When that happens, Jerry will be setting this franchise back so far that the thought alone, is sickening and depressing.

Do you have any evidence to show that other teams are lining up to bid for the services of Rick Hahn?

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, JoeyCoralFanClub said:

Do you have any evidence to show that other teams are lining up to bid for the services of Rick Hahn?

Just last year the Phillies had him on a list to interview for President of their organization. 

[Tnetennba]

 

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

 

Now that is pretty telling.  We are under .500 in close games, despite having played a pretty crappy schedule so far.  I wonder what the reason for that could be...

[JoeyCoralFanClub]

37 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Just last year the Phillies had him on a list to interview for President of their organization. 

Thank you. The original poster said tons of teams. This is an example of one team.

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, JoeyCoralFanClub said:

Thank you. The original poster said tons of teams. This is an example of one team.

Well for obvious reasons almost all of that stuff isn't going to make the public eye, but I also remember there being about half a dozen teams in the past who wanted to interview him as GM when he was still assistant GM.

But if you want to fight instead of get actual information, feel free to keep working that angle.  Again.

[JoeyCoralFanClub]

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Well for obvious reasons almost all of that stuff isn't going to make the public eye, but I also remember there being about half a dozen teams in the past who wanted to interview him as GM when he was still assistant GM.

But if you want to fight instead of get actual information, feel free to keep working that angle.  Again.

Not trying to pick a fight. Just seeing if the other guy had any legit info that other teams are blowing up Rick Hahns LinkedIn profile. 

[mmmmmbeeer]

16 minutes ago, JoeyCoralFanClub said:

Not trying to pick a fight. Just seeing if the other guy had any legit info that other teams are blowing up Rick Hahns LinkedIn profile. 

Yes, I'm sure there's barely any demand for a guy who came out the other side of a rebuild with a World Series favorite roster.  

Which teams do you think advertise this shit?  Should we believe the Cubs were the only team that wanted Theo because they're the only team with reported interest?  Work on your "gotchas", kid.

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

Yes, I'm sure there's barely any demand for a guy who came out the other side of a rebuild with a World Series favorite roster.  

Which teams do you think advertise this shit?  Should we believe the Cubs were the only team that wanted Theo because they're the only team with reported interest?  Work on your "gotchas", kid.

Not to mention what the recycling rate is amongst pro sports executives going from team to team.

[JoeyCoralFanClub]

5 minutes ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

Yes, I'm sure there's barely any demand for a guy who came out the other side of a rebuild with a World Series favorite roster.  

Which teams do you think advertise this shit?  Should we believe the Cubs were the only team that wanted Theo because they're the only team with reported interest?  Work on your "gotchas", kid.

I actually don't think there is much demand for Rick Hahns services.  The guy has won as many playoff series as all the posters on Sox Talk.  Lets hope that changes after this year though. 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Tnetennba said:

 

For comparison, this is what they did last year.