The TLR Manager Thread

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Tony said:

Alright, so now you're just phoning it in. 

This is what irritates me. Whenever you actually call out one of the LaRussa stans, they have no argument. It just turns into a joke. 

The funny part is until the last five days his OPS was .526, with a career .622 OPS.  Did Tony not start coaching him until May 27th?

[35thstreetswarm]

4 minutes ago, Tony said:

See....BOTH CAN BE TRUE. 

I 100% agree right now this team is playing above my expectations. The players and LaRussa deserve praise for that! Yay Tony! Yay Players! 

Major tactical errors shouldn't be overlooked because of a very talented roster and LaRussa being possibly good in the clubhouse (something we have no way of knowing) 

Both can be true. I want Tony LaRussa to lead this team to a World Series championship. I'll be thrilled. I also wanted Cody Parkey to make a few FG because I was rooting for the Bears. He showed me he had trouble doing that before, and my fears were answered during the playoffs. I hope that isn't the case with LaRussa calling for a bunt in the third inning of Game 2 or letting Giolito go an inning too long when everyone watching can see he's gassed. 

Correct, and I suspect both ideas coexist in the minds of most reasonable fans, who realize:  (1) the team is playing well, for which TLR deserves some credit; (2) TLR has made some very questionable in-game moves and created unnecessary controversy, which is concerning; (3) we hope the questionable decisionmaking improves or is eclipsed by the team's overall success and talent, and that we win the WS and are too overjoyed to concern ourselves with which of those things it was.  

There - come out of your trenches, maintain some flexibility and humility, and enjoy this great season. 

[Tnetennba]

27 minutes ago, Tony said:

Major tactical errors shouldn't be overlooked because of a very talented roster and LaRussa being possibly good in the clubhouse (something we have no way of knowing) 

And this is what has been worrying since spring training and why we "critics" simply can't shut up and enjoy first place, or whatever the common refrain is.  The obvious tactical errors might not matter much in May or June, but come October it very well could be season over.  And all of the time spent in 1st place means jack shit if they are bounced in the playoffs because the manager still doesn't know how to manage the game in 2021.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Tnetennba

[chetkincaid]

26 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Not to mention a completely different version of Rodon and Cease.

If Renteria had Lance Lynn to start game 3 of the playoffs, there's a good chance that TLR would still be in Arizona right now bragging about being a hall of fame person.

[Tony]

27 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

If you don't think the manager has an influence on the guys he's around and their play over 162 games then I just can't agree with you.  One thing that the manager can do to keep everybody feeling really fucking good is play all his players and put them in positions to succeed.  It seems, as far as I can tell, that Tony is doing that.  The comparisons to 2020 are pretty useless, Stone is right about that.  I've said over and over it's pass fail this year for TLR.  If the Sox falter down the stretch fail him.

Once again, show where I said otherwise? Again, you're being fucking lazy and dense because you have a Swiss cheese argument. 

I gave both the players and coaching staff, Tony included, credit for the record thus far. 

Where we disagree is thinking that's the only thing that matters or a coach can be judged on. Because while you say "as far as I can tell", you have no fucking idea what Tony is like in the clubhouse, OTHER THAN HIS W-L RECORD. Which is why I continue to bring up the Ricky Renteria comparison. You can complain all you want about, or act like you don't understand it, but of course you do.

You're playing dense because it takes away the one positive you keep going back to LaRussa on.....how well the team is playing in 2021. They played better in 2020 under Ricky at this point in the season. These are facts, not opinion.

Lastly, Before you change the subject and go down the "Oh you wanted to keep Ricky as manager then?!?" rabbit hole, you can stop, because you'll just make yourself look worse. Ricky needed to be replaced and it was the right call. In fact, it sort of proves the entire premise of my argument. Ricky had the Sox playing at a 34-20 record at this point in the season. I bitched and moaned all year in 2020 that he wasn't playing to win the game in front of him, but he was a "developmental" manager and was always looking ahead. That's the type of manager you needed in 2018, not 2020. So when the Sox showed how well they were playing in 2020, the concerns about Ricky grew larger because if he didn't have that killer instinct and know how to manage in a big game, it seemed like the playoffs might be trouble. AND GUESS WHAT HAPPENED?!?!

Those same concerns are there with LaRussa. I don't care what he did in 1989 with the A's or 2011 with the Cardinals. It's 2021 and thus far, he's cost a very talented roster multiple wins with some of his decisions. My eyes can't see in the locker room, but they can see on the field, and my ears can hear post game press conferences. A different manager could be having more success with this team, and make me feel better about them being ready for the playoffs. 

If you can't grasp that, I can't help you. 

 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

47 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Like I how he didn't mention that Tony has guys like Lance Lynn, Liam Hendriks and Michael Kopech.

Or a good Carlos Rodon and Dylan Cease.

[Tony]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Or a good Carlos Rodon and Dylan Cease.

And has a pitching coach that didn't retire 7 years ago but still hung around the dugout...

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

51 minutes ago, Tony said:

Who compared an NFL head coach to an MLB manager? No one did? 

But you are being dense, or WAY dumber than we all think you are, because the sport doesn't matter. The Cody Parkey example is used to show when a team is very good and filled with talent......bad spots can be overlooked by all the winning. When the Bears made their run in 2019, Cody Parkey was terribly inconsistent....he missed 4 FG's in one game and the Bears still won. So while fans celebrated victory, there was still an area of concern that you hoped didn't come back to bite you when the games really mattered. 

That's what happened with Cody Parkey and the Bears, and that's what some believe could happen with the Sox. The sports don't matter. 

Except you're also the guy three weeks ago saying how the Sox roster is currently like a cheat code when you've been ripping off the other team in trades in OOTP. Seems like any warm body could have gotten this team to this point, no? Ricky did in 2020....right? 

The Sox outperformed expectations last year FAR MORE than they have this year.

[Jerksticks]

4 hours ago, Tony said:

It's really quite simple. Given the injuries to Eloy and Robert, the Sox thus far have played above my expectations. The players, and coaching staff...including LaRussa....deserve credit for that. 

But two things can be true at once, as we all know. Someone like @Green Line is the perfect example. Here is his most recent "defense" of LaRussa. 

No actual defense of the moves LaRussa made, but instead talking about the winning record he has thus far with the Sox in 2021. HOWEVER....when I brought up the record Ricky had in 2020 (which is better than the 2021 White Sox at this point) he wanted no part of that discussion:

It's just a bit for them at this point. Guys like Green Line and @tray really don't serve any purpose other than to play the fool, try and rile people up with low hanging fruit. I enjoy embarrassing them from time to time but it's hard to muster up the energy when they are getting lazier and lazier with their efforts in defending LaRussa.  Just doesn't seem worth it anymore. Sad, really. 

Some people don’t serve any other purpose than to play the fool?  You enjoy embarrassing people?

Dang man

[Tony]

Just now, Jerksticks said:

Some people don’t serve any other purpose than to play the fool?  You enjoy embarrassing people?

Dang man

I didn't create their posts...they did. 

Dang man. 

[35thstreetswarm]

22 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The Sox outperformed expectations last year FAR MORE than they have this year.

It depends on whose "expectations," I suppose.  PECOTA projections (which I recall you crediting more than most posters here) had us pegged at 83 wins and 3rd place when released in 2021, and 82.5 before the 2020 season (updated to 31 wins before shortened season). 

[chitownsportsfan]

28 minutes ago, Tony said:

Once again, show where I said otherwise? Again, you're being fucking lazy and dense because you have a Swiss cheese argument. 

 I gave both the players and coaching staff, Tony included, credit for the record thus far. 

 

Be better man you're a mod. You guys should be setting the example and that is what you lead with? Come on.

Edited June 1, 2021 by chitownsportsfan

[Green Line]

6 minutes ago, Tony said:

I didn't create their posts...they did. 

Dang man. 

Again - believe me when I say this - you give yourself way too much credit.  The vitriol you spew only serves to ensure that everyone else tunes you out.  You are embarrassing no one but yourself.

[Tony]

5 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Be better man you're a mod. You guys should be setting the example and that is what you lead with? Come on.

Weird, no response again to any points. Almost like I called that 3 posts back....

[Tony]

3 minutes ago, Green Line said:

Again - believe me when I say this - you give yourself way too much credit.  The vitriol you spew only serves to ensure that everyone else tunes you out.  You are embarrassing no one but yourself.

[South Side Hit Men]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Woah, some fire from Stone Poney.

 

Tony has Lance Lynn, Carlos Rodon, Michael Kopech and Yermin Mercedes and Ethan Katz.

Ricky had Steiver, Dunning, Gio Gonzalez and Parrot and a comatose Don Cooper.

Eloy was also out many times including the playoffs, Baghdad Stone Pony. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by South Side Hit Men

[chitownsportsfan]

2 minutes ago, Tony said:

Weird, no response again to any points. Almost like I called that 3 posts back....

There's no point in arguing with you on TLR anymore.  You already said you think he's doing a decent job, that's as good as it's going to get and I agree, he's doing a decent job.

[southsider2k5]

13 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Be better man you're a mod. You guys should be setting the example and that is what you lead with? Come on.

He's right though.   its all stuff that has been previously said a million times, so while he might be frustrated with covering the same things over and over again, no one will blame him either.  The whole "but you are a mod thing" is just a cop out.

[southsider2k5]

14 minutes ago, Green Line said:

Again - believe me when I say this - you give yourself way too much credit.  The vitriol you spew only serves to ensure that everyone else tunes you out.  You are embarrassing no one but yourself.

Then why are you STILL commenting?  You keep talking like this, yet are STILL responding to it. 

[Green Line]

20 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Then why are you STILL commenting?  You keep talking like this, yet are STILL responding to it. 

When I see the hatred and vitriol directed at me or anyone else on this thread, sometimes I can't help but reply.  I admit, that is my failing and I gladly own it.

[chetkincaid]

2 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Woah, some fire from Stone Poney.

 

What a shitty reply from Stone. All the guy did was point out that Renteria had a better record through games and Stone fired back with an insult. Isn't he really sensitive when it comes to how people speak with him on Twitter? 

[southsider2k5]

24 minutes ago, Green Line said:

When I see the hatred and vitriol directed at me or anyone else on this thread, sometimes I can't help but reply.  I admit, that is my failing and I gladly own it.

Lol, you have been all over these conversations LONG before you were mentioned, which is exactly why you got mentioned. 

[southsider2k5]

10 minutes ago, chetkincaid said:

What a shitty reply from Stone. All the guy did was point out that Renteria had a better record through games and Stone fired back with an insult. Isn't he really sensitive when it comes to how people speak with him on Twitter? 

Yes, he is sensitive.  He blocks tons of people for disagreements.

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Yes, he is sensitive.  He blocks tons of people for disagreements.

I was gonna say, yes, yes he is.

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, Tony said:

Once again, show where I said otherwise? Again, you're being fucking lazy and dense because you have a Swiss cheese argument. 

I gave both the players and coaching staff, Tony included, credit for the record thus far. 

Where we disagree is thinking that's the only thing that matters or a coach can be judged on. Because while you say "as far as I can tell", you have no fucking idea what Tony is like in the clubhouse, OTHER THAN HIS W-L RECORD. Which is why I continue to bring up the Ricky Renteria comparison. You can complain all you want about, or act like you don't understand it, but of course you do.

You're playing dense because it takes away the one positive you keep going back to LaRussa on.....how well the team is playing in 2021. They played better in 2020 under Ricky at this point in the season. These are facts, not opinion.

Lastly, Before you change the subject and go down the "Oh you wanted to keep Ricky as manager then?!?" rabbit hole, you can stop, because you'll just make yourself look worse. Ricky needed to be replaced and it was the right call. In fact, it sort of proves the entire premise of my argument. Ricky had the Sox playing at a 34-20 record at this point in the season. I bitched and moaned all year in 2020 that he wasn't playing to win the game in front of him, but he was a "developmental" manager and was always looking ahead. That's the type of manager you needed in 2018, not 2020. So when the Sox showed how well they were playing in 2020, the concerns about Ricky grew larger because if he didn't have that killer instinct and know how to manage in a big game, it seemed like the playoffs might be trouble. AND GUESS WHAT HAPPENED?!?!

Those same concerns are there with LaRussa. I don't care what he did in 1989 with the A's or 2011 with the Cardinals. It's 2021 and thus far, he's cost a very talented roster multiple wins with some of his decisions. My eyes can't see in the locker room, but they can see on the field, and my ears can hear post game press conferences. A different manager could be having more success with this team, and make me feel better about them being ready for the playoffs. 

If you can't grasp that, I can't help you. 

 

But how do you account for the easier schedule in 2020 vs. 2021?

Looking simply at records through X number of games isn’t going to do it.

At the 49 game mark, we were around 32-15 before going 3-10 down the stretch.

 

If you compare the starting pitching and bullpen talent year on year, it’s not even close.  Goes completely in TLR’s favor.

So then you’re also left to consider the impact of Eloy, Cordero, Robert and Engel being out...or Kopech, Lynn and Jimenez added this year, etc.  Rodon’s breakthrough, Cease’s as well.

As someone else wrote, Keuchel manning up in Game 2, Lynn for Game 3, a healthy Crochet for multiple innings in Game 3 or a healthy Eloy Jimenez in Game 3...no Tony LaRussa at all.  That’s mostly on Rick Hahn, not Renteria.

You can even argue Renteria saw something in Rodon or Cordero that others didn’t...as he experimented down the stretch with the relief core.