The TLR Manager Thread

[ShoeLessRob]

This is the guy who apologized after his first DUI and swore to never do it again.... you think he cares if he messes up in a baseball game when he doesn’t even care about life/death situations? 

[IWokeUpLikeThis]

Just now, ShoeLessRob said:

This is the guy who apologized after his first DUI and swore to never do it again.... you think he cares if he messes up in a baseball game when he doesn’t even care about life/death situations? 

How would a manager win 3 WS and 6 pennants if he doesn't care whether he messes up in a baseball game?

[ShoeLessRob]

5 minutes ago, IWokeUpLikeThis said:

How would a manager win 3 WS and 6 pennants if he doesn't care whether he messes up in a baseball game?

I won’t comment on his past accomplishments cause I didn’t watch those teams. But if he is coaching exactly the same right now how he did in the past, then his teams won inspite of him and not because of him. He obviously doesn’t care because he apologized leaving Foster out there to die and then just did the same exact thing two weeks later. Either he doesn’t care or he’s dumb as hell. 

[reiks12]

8 minutes ago, ShoeLessRob said:

I won’t comment on his past accomplishments cause I didn’t watch those teams. But if he is coaching exactly the same right now how he did in the past, then his teams won inspite of him and not because of him. He obviously doesn’t care because he apologized leaving Foster out there to die and then just did the same exact thing two weeks later. Either he doesn’t care or he’s dumb as hell. 

It is obvious he does care, i believe hes just managing a game that has evolved and hes not acknowledging that. He coached that exactly how i expect a 90's, 2000's coach to do it.

[Balta1701]

52 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Does the pitcher have any responsibility to inform the manager he's gassed? 

I'm trying to wrap my head around that conversation not happening. 

No. You’re asking a player in professional sports to come to the manager and say, mid adrenaline high, that he is going to let his team down and pull himself out of the game. Pitcher should never be expected to say that, they always say they can do one more guy even if they know they can’t. Player is probably going to lie half the time if the manager asks them, it’s on the manager to know his players and the situation better than that. 

You’re happy when a player says “hey my elbow feels weird” rather than pitching through it.

[Balta1701]

50 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I've never been in a MLB dugout during the game and never heard a in game conversation between an ace and hall of fame manager so maybe I'm missing something.  But it seems like someone, pitching coach or manager walks over to the pitcher after 90 +pitches and asks what ya got left? 

And your trying to keep a roster spot guy might lie and say give me the ball but Gio should be able to say I'm gassed. 

Sending him out wasn't a bad decision, I'm more concerned that there was a startling horrible lack of communication between Gio and the coaching staff. 

Note the difference between this question and the one I just replied to. In the previous case, you're asking if the player should go to the manager and say "I'm done". Here you're asking if the manager or pitching coach should go to the player and ask, and take the player's statement into account. 

Big difference. The player might give an iffy response to the question even if he would never walk over to the manager and give him the ball.

[Harry Chappas]

So is Ethan Katz getting a pass on this?    Shouldn't he check between every inning on how the starting pitcher is doing?  

Not sure he is blame in the Foster game.

Maybe Tony does not listen to him but last night he would be as much to blame as anyone. 

[Balta1701]

42 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

So is Ethan Katz getting a pass on this?    Shouldn't he check between every inning on how the starting pitcher is doing?  

Not sure he is blame in the Foster game.

Maybe Tony does not listen to him but last night he would be as much to blame as anyone. 

Feel Entirely free to make a Katz complaint thread. Cat puns encouraged.

[Kyyle23]

The only thing I could possibly conceive he is doing is feeling out the team so he knows what they are all capable of in certain situations.  This is super dumb and I don't approve of it at all, but it's all I can come up with outside of what seems to be obvious lagging in decision making and personnel decisions due to being out of the game(in a managers role) too long.

[poppysox]

2 hours ago, fathom said:

Go back and look at the game thread. Every single poster was hoping he wouldn’t start the 7th.  He was throwing some really bad pitches in the 6th and his velocity was down.

What do you suppose the bench coach is doing while this is going on?

[caulfield12]

“Giolito can't come through in his 7th inning”

White Sox right-hander (114 pitches) tires, yields RBI double, go-ahead homer

“Lucas Giolito labors late again”

https://www.mlb.com/news/lucas-giolito-labors-late-against-tigers
 

Some interesting headlines there, but none of them point the finger at LaRussa, curiously enough.

[Texsox]

3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Note the difference between this question and the one I just replied to. In the previous case, you're asking if the player should go to the manager and say "I'm done". Here you're asking if the manager or pitching coach should go to the player and ask, and take the player's statement into account. 

Big difference. The player might give an iffy response to the question even if he would never walk over to the manager and give him the ball.

That means a  player should hide being gassed. How does that help the team? I can maybe understand someone clinging to a roster spot,  but your ace should have the respect of the coaches to be honest. Instead we have a player hiding being gassed. That's a horrible team culture and that lands directly on the manager if players are lying and not being forthright and honest. 

[BamaDoc]

I haven't read all 18 pages but I think the manager is taking blame and deflecting it from the players.  Ozzie made himself the story when we slumped in 2005 and I recall players saying it made it easier for them not getting choke questions.  Very likely something similar and at the same time , he is learning his roster.  I am an optimist by the way.

[Balta1701]

11 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

I haven't read all 18 pages but I think the manager is taking blame and deflecting it from the players.  Ozzie made himself the story when we slumped in 2005 and I recall players saying it made it easier for them not getting choke questions.  Very likely something similar and at the same time , he is learning his roster.  I am an optimist by the way.

Taking the pressure off the players by putting them in situations where they will fail is an interesting strategy.

[Balta1701]

33 minutes ago, Texsox said:

That means a  player should hide being gassed. How does that help the team? I can maybe understand someone clinging to a roster spot,  but your ace should have the respect of the coaches to be honest. Instead we have a player hiding being gassed. That's a horrible team culture and that lands directly on the manager if players are lying and not being forthright and honest. 

That doesn’t mean they should, that means they are going to do so.

[Texsox]

11 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

That doesn’t mean they should, that means they are going to do so.

And should that be encouraged? Who was Gio helping by hiding he was gassed? His teammates? The coaching staff? Himself? 

[Kyyle23]

17 minutes ago, Texsox said:

And should that be encouraged? Who was Gio helping by hiding he was gassed? His teammates? The coaching staff? Himself? 

I get what you are trying to say here but let's try and look at it through what really happened.  Tony thought Giolito could get through the inning before it started, I don't think Giolito is going to go up to TLR and be like "sorry man I can't go".   It's not crazy to let Giolito start that inning.

the problem is he got in trouble quickly, obviously, a guy was up in the bullpen warming and Tony let it go somehow thinking Giolito was still gonna get out of it.  That's not on Lucas, Tony has to recognize that and move on it.  

[Dick Allen]

Whether Gio spoke to him or not, it was obvious just watching the game the guy was gassed. After the double to Ramos to tie the game, how can anyone defend leaving him out there? Was there even a mound visit? They might have lost the game anyway, but for a guy with a reputation as being the master at running a bullpen, and supposedly having the best or one of the best bullpens in baseball, the Sox sure have blown a lot of games late this season already. Some by the bullpen, and this one by being afraid to use it.

I still think Tony is trying to score points with his players by trying to help them accumulate individual numbers. He clearly has used Hendriks just to pad the save total, I think part of his motivation for not getting Gio once they tied it was for Gio's win column.

 

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

4 hours ago, Texsox said:

And should that be encouraged? Who was Gio helping by hiding he was gassed? His teammates? The coaching staff? Himself? 

When you’re already in an ultra competitive setting, there are some behaviors that are just going to need to be managed. Baseball players want to be in the lineup every day. Pitchers don’t want to come out of the game. Wide receivers know they’re open and are angry you’re not getting them the ball. Michael Jordan isn’t just going to beat you he also wants to destroy your career and devour your soul.

Good managers understand that and say “we’ve got this, you gave us what we needed today” or “take a day off Jose for the good of the team” or “Michael who’s open (Paxson!)”. They take those traits and keep them focused and turn them into wins and championships.

Bad managers allow those traits to undermine the team.

[Pal]

16 hours ago, BamaDoc said:

I haven't read all 18 pages but I think the manager is taking blame and deflecting it from the players.  Ozzie made himself the story when we slumped in 2005 and I recall players saying it made it easier for them not getting choke questions.  Very likely something similar and at the same time , he is learning his roster.  I am an optimist by the way.

Exactly what I thought he was doing.

[thedoctor]

i'm just still pissed we had to go in this direction with this effing guy. this should be a great time to be a sox fan. most compelling team we've had in quite some time. young talent all over the place. instead, they had to introduce this variable to ruin it. it's cast a pall over everything and just didn't have to be the case. ffs.

[Dominikk85]

20 hours ago, Harry Chappas said:

So is Ethan Katz getting a pass on this?    Shouldn't he check between every inning on how the starting pitcher is doing?  

Not sure he is blame in the Foster game.

Maybe Tony does not listen to him but last night he would be as much to blame as anyone. 

This is really strange. Katz must have said something, it is really his job to watch the pitchers and tell the manager a guy is gassed and should be taken out soon. 

Of course it could be that TLR Actively rejects Katz advice because Katz is young and has no pro ball experience. That would be really bad of course because you can't manage like this today. 

If it really was an "asleep at the wheel" situation then I would actually blame Katz for this more because as a young "data driven" coach he really has to keep a look at pitcher workloads and not rely on a 76 yo doing it. 

 

But if Katz did his due Diligence and was rebuffed by TLR it would be a really bad and toxic situation. 

[Bob Sacamano]

43 minutes ago, thedoctor said:

i'm just still pissed we had to go in this direction with this effing guy. this should be a great time to be a sox fan. most compelling team we've had in quite some time. young talent all over the place. instead, they had to introduce this variable to ruin it. it's cast a pall over everything and just didn't have to be the case. ffs.

And many have agreed for months. 

[Texsox]

9 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

I get what you are trying to say here but let's try and look at it through what really happened.  Tony thought Giolito could get through the inning before it started, I don't think Giolito is going to go up to TLR and be like "sorry man I can't go".   It's not crazy to let Giolito start that inning.

the problem is he got in trouble quickly, obviously, a guy was up in the bullpen warming and Tony let it go somehow thinking Giolito was still gonna get out of it.  That's not on Lucas, Tony has to recognize that and move on it.  

I think there is some blame all the way around. There is a player and a pitching coach that are keeping information away from the manager who then shoulders all the blame?  We can spin it a dozen different ways but clearly doing what is best for the team isn't in their thinking. I can't see how that wins a championship. Now the manager has to be a walking lie detector. Obviously this team isn't pulling together and that truly does start at the top. Tony is doing something wrong but making a bad decision because critical information was being withheld might not be one of them. 

 

[harkness99]

he needs to be fired or get the message to "retire" quick..