The TLR Manager Thread

[Tnetennba]

5 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

 

Wait, what?

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Tnetennba said:

Wait, what?

As far as I can tell, that means: 

None of the staff knew that rule addendum.

LaRussa already had told them to shut up so it wouldn’t have mattered if they did.

[wegner]

Just now, Tnetennba said:

Wait, what?

This getting worse and worse.  Now the other coaches are correctly questioning him and he does this stupid shit anyways?

[Tony]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

As far as I can tell, that means: 

None of the staff knew that rule addendum.

LaRussa already had told them to shut up so it wouldn’t have mattered if they did.

I read it the other way, that the staff was questioning him and said "Do you realize you have Liam Hendicks running at 2B?" and he said "I know..." 

[TheBlackSox8]

I knew there was a reason for my panic when TLR was hired.  JR has kneecapped this team...

[Dick Allen]

6 minutes ago, chetkincaid said:

Reinsdorf isn't going to embarrass himself like that.

One thing JR won't do is admit he was wrong. We are stuck with Tony until Tony realizes he has lost whatever he had. I think, especially if they miss the playoffs,  he will call it a day after one season.

[ShoeLessRob]

[Perfect Vision]

18 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

 

This can be interpreted in a bunch of different ways.  Did none of the other coaches know the rule?  Did they know the rule but fear speaking up to correct Tony?  Did they know the rule, but based on Tony's answer, assume that Tony knew it as well and preferred Hendriks running to a position player?

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, Tony said:

I read it the other way, that the staff was questioning him and said "Do you realize you have Liam Hendicks running at 2B?" and he said "I know..." 

I would think they would be saying “you know Hendricks doesn’t have to run here” and not “Hendricks is slotted to run” if they knew the rule, but that’s JMO.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

37 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Well that's where we could debate the rule but I don't know it that well and I'm not sure who knows every aspect of it. People are saying Abreu then would've been the runner but is there a rule that says you cannot use a pinch runner in the situation if they make the double switch or even if he doesn't ? Or a different double switch where someone else becomes the runner instead of Hendriks or ABreu ?

Basically what I'm asking is for someone who knows every rule in that situation to set  up the inning from the beginning and the list the options according to who was left on the bench. Who was supposed to be the runner on second before the inning started  ? Was the pitchers spot due to open the inning in the batting order ? Was a double switch necessary or could whoever made the last out the previous inning be put on second then pinch run for ? Could a different double switch have been made ? If the pitcher's spot was due up then you pinch hit for him while also having used someone to pinch run if that's allowed if you don't make the double switch ? Then you might have to also pinch hit for Hamilton if it gets to that point ? ARe there enough bench players left with all that going on to have all the positions covered when the inning is over? There was so much going on that I'm not sure anyone here knows all the rules. LaRussa should have known but there is a heckuva lot to dissect .

 

I put this in the game thread but since it's being discussed here does anyone want to take a stab at all my questions? This is not an attempt to excuse Larussa. I just want to know if anyone clearly knows how that 10th inning ,when the Sox were batting, could've been handled ideally from beginning to end taking into account who was due up and who was on the bench.

Edited May 5, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[gusguyman]

For his career, Billy Hamilton has only hit into a double play in 4.4% of his opportunities to do so (league average is just under 11%).  With a runner on third and less than 2 outs, Hamilton has scored the runner on 47.6% of opportunities (league average is 50.4%). To keep the same chance of scoring a single run, Garcia would need to have basically a 99% chance of successfully stealing 2nd base.

And even from a total expected runs in the inning standpoint Garcia would need to have like an 80-85% chance to steal that base. Just inexplicable decision making. 

 

 

[mqr]

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I put this in the game thread but since it's being discussed here does anyone want to take a stab at all my questions? This is not an attempt to excuse Larussa. I just want to know if anyone clearly knows how that 10th inning ,when the Sox were batting, could've been handled ideally from beginning to end taking into account who was due up and who was on the bench.

The double switch was not necessary, but it was to get that pitcher's spot out of the firing line of coming up that inning to make sure hendriks got another inning. 

If it's abreu and not hendriks on third, I'm comfortable with a squeeze play. I'm also absolutely not stealing with garcia. The infield was in, there was no DP threat. If you wanted to get a little Joe Maddon with it, you could pinch hit mendick for hamilton and hoped to god a ball didn't get hit to him the next inning. This would be a desperate move I understand. 

[Bob Sacamano]

31 minutes ago, wegner said:

This getting worse and worse.  Now the other coaches are correctly questioning him and he does this stupid shit anyways?

This is going about as poorly as almost everyone here pictured it would. 

[Dick Allen]

Tony is the manager. He should know the rules. We would expect Renteria to know the rules. Fans expect Matt Nagy to know the rules. Whether that cost the Sox the game, we will never know but why is no one questioning Tony's covering for Hendiks, saying he is a closer and since he wasn't closing it was not a good spot for him. Then why the fuck is he pitching?  Nothing the guy says makes ay sense like his Yermin being scratched story.  Maybe he has had too much to drink over the years and is getting pickled. 

[ScootsMcGoots]

The drama never ceases to exist with this team. 

[chw42]

1 minute ago, ScooterMcGee said:

The drama never ceases to exist with this team. 

This is the most hyped Sox team in years and then we end up with drama that rivals the Drake LaRoche saga. 

[NWINFan]

19 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

One thing JR won't do is admit he was wrong. We are stuck with Tony until Tony realizes he has lost whatever he had. I think, especially if they miss the playoffs,  he will call it a day after one season.

You are completely right about JR. I have always wondered and worried about JR as he aged and no one would be around to save him from himself. It's obvious that there was no sound reasoning behind the LaRussa hire. Too bad LaRussa won't make up some dumb excuse and resign. Too bad JR won't admit the mistake and have Hahn fire LaRussa.

[mqr]

I'm too young to have observed the Bevington Shit Show. How does this compare?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

20 minutes ago, mqr said:

The double switch was not necessary, but it was to get that pitcher's spot out of the firing line of coming up that inning to make sure hendriks got another inning. 

If it's abreu and not hendriks on third, I'm comfortable with a squeeze play. I'm also absolutely not stealing with garcia. The infield was in, there was no DP threat. If you wanted to get a little Joe Maddon with it, you could pinch hit mendick for hamilton and hoped to god a ball didn't get hit to him the next inning. This would be a desperate move I understand. 

Ok I appreciate the effort but I asked a lot more questions that need to be answered.  What I'm looking for is an answer that sets the whole inning up from the beginning, then list  all the options that LaRussa had.  Who is due up and when ?I mean I assume something couldve been done where Hendricks is not used at all and another pitcher just comes in when the inning is over. Would it absolutely have to be Hendricks or Abreu or could either one be pinch run for? I need a one batter at a time analysis from the top of the inning on. I know that would be an extremely long post  but this needs in depth knowledge of all the rules involved and I'm not sure anyone is up to the challenge. ALl i know is LaRussa fucked up but ideally what should've been done according to all the rules and all the players left on the bench to insure we had enough players to cover the bottom half of the 10th.

Something like this:

Top of the 10th. This person will be on 2nd base unless LaRussa does one of these options: 1. Makes a double switch . 2 If a double switch is made ,what double switches could've been made? Who is then due up ? If he doesn't double switch what are his options then and who is due up ? Can he pinch run for the runner on 2nd ? and on and on.

Edited May 5, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[soxfan49]

 

[NWINFan]

8 minutes ago, mqr said:

I'm too young to have observed the Bevington Shit Show. How does this compare?

It is starting to sound and look badly familiar.

[wegner]

7 minutes ago, mqr said:

I'm too young to have observed the Bevington Shit Show. How does this compare?

I would say that his signature moment was calling for someone from the bullpen when noone had been warming up.  Today was worse than that in my opinion but that could be just the law of recency affecting my judgement.

[Dick Allen]

4 minutes ago, mqr said:

I'm too young to have observed the Bevington Shit Show. How does this compare?

Bevington did some weird crap and the players hated him. He will always be known for signaling to the bullpen with no one warming up, but no one mentions the time when a bad call went the Sox way and he went out to argue anyway. Both managers were screaming at the same umpire. Oddly enough, Tony's run in Oakland ended while Bevington was still around and JR wanted to bring him back, but Schueler didn't want him,and he wasn't hired. That was a sharper 50 year old version of Tony.

One thing this not knowing the rules proves is Tony isn't this mad baseball genius spending his days looking for an edge. That wouldn't be sincere. Wouldn't be legit.

.

[mqr]

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Ok I appreciate the effort but I asked a lot more questions that need to be answered.  What I'm looking for is an answer that sets the whole inning up from the beginning, then list  all the options that LaRussa had.  Who is due up and when ?I mean I assume something couldve been done where Hendricks is not used at all and another pitcher just comes in when the inning is over. Would it absolutely have to be Hendricks or Abreu or could either one be pinch run for? I need a one batter at a time analysis from the top of the inning on. I know that would be an extremely long post  but this needs in depth knowledge of all the rules involved and I'm not sure anyone is up to the challenge. ALl i know is LaRussa fucked up but ideally what should've been done according to all the rules and all the players left on the bench to insure we had enough players to cover the bottom half of the 10th.

You could definitely use a pinch runner but I'm not sure if you could sub abreu for hendriks and then use a pinch runner, I can't find anything definitive there. It just says "However, if the player in the batting order immediately preceding that half-inning’s leadoff hitter is the pitcher, the runner placed on second base at the start of that half-inning may be the player preceding the pitcher in the batting order" If you can, you'd use mendick and then bring Collins in to play first. 

This games outcome aside, Liam Hendriks absolutely cannot be running the bases two days after you already had a devastating roster hit. 

 

[Superstar Lamar]

I couldn't watch the game.  Did Hendrick's running have any impact on the outcome?