The TLR Manager Thread

[Kyyle23]

Just now, Two-Gun Pete said:

Can't BOTH be true at the same time?

Can't is be that it was moronic to overpay for a closer, AND it was moronic to bring in TLR as manager?

They can be true.  I know you are angry about Hendriks being signed and I'm just not gonna get into that argument, it isn't anything we can change.  I absolutely recognize he has not done his Job this season.  In regards to yesterday, it was all bad and yet again TLR put his closer in a weird situation that he shouldn't have been in.   

[Texsox]

37 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I would venture to guess that 99.99999% of the posters who don't think TLR should necessarily have to know the rules since the announcers didn't and Frank and Ozzie didn't, would have fully held Ricky Renteria accountable for not knowing the rules if he was in the dugout.

LaRussa is a hack. IMO, he always was, but give him his Oakland and St. Louis days. At the very least, it is rather obvious this isn't a guy who is 3 or 4 steps ahead of ever iouyone else. Yesterday and a few other examples have shown he is at least one step behind. 

Overall I wouldn't have held any AL manager responsible the first time it happened. It's a crazy, bad way to start extra innings to begin with and with very little data to back up strategy. 

But I get the if you give him a pass on one thing you must love him and if you dislike him you must jump on every mistake mentality.  100% for or against. I just don't follow it. I can dislike 85% of something someone does and not be too upset about 10% and even like 5%. It's a crazy mixed up shook up world. 

[35thstreetswarm]

Bernstein is absolutely lambasting LaRussa on the Score right now; talking about our "issue" getting national run now, and being the buzz of the baseball world. I was one of those who was resigned to LaRussa (though he was far from my first choice) and excited that he would at least be an improvement over Ricky.  I've officially flipped. And the worst part about it, as Bernstein pointed out, is that there's no recourse. It's depressing. I just hope the negativity surrounding this legitimately bad situation doesn't completely derail this still-promising team.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

10 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

Thanks for the long patronizing explanation of the double switch. I was suggesting double switch Lamb for Kopech and Hendriks for Abreu, and let Vaughn run or pinch run for him with Mendick. Vaughn is still a better option to run than Hendriks or Abreu.

Oh for heavens sake why the fuck was it patronizing ? I don't know if you know the rules or not and your post didn't make it clear what you knew because you didn't mention a substitution. What the fuck am I supposed to think if you didn't explain it better ? You made no mention of Lamb or Kopech. Holy hell I was as nice as can be pointing out perhaps you misinterpreted the rule and even asked you to kindly explain your thinking to me if I understood you wrong.

What you perceive as patronizing I thought I was helping a fellow Sox fan understand the rules better. I also realized you could've knew the rules and kindly asked you to explain what you were thinking since if was far from apparent.

Edited May 6, 2021 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CentralChamps21]

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Oh for heavens sake why the fuck was it patronizing ? I don't know if you know the rules or not and your post didn't make it clear what you knew because you didn't mention a substitution. What the fuck am I supposed to think if you didn't explain it better. You made no mention of Lamb or Kopech. Holy hell I was as nice as can be pointing out perhaps you misinterpreted the rule and even asked you to kindly explain your thinking to me if I understood you wrong.

I said "could have double switched for Abreu instead of Vaughn" I thought that was pretty clear in suggesting that, at the time they made the double switch that replaced Vaughn, they could have replaced Abreu instead. Maybe for your benefit I needed to mark up the lineup card and post the image, but I think everybody else understood what I meant.

[Quin]

30 minutes ago, upsoxfan said:

   It's surprising how fast the Chicago media gets on LaRusso for some mistakes. When you make a decision you are either right or wrong. Right now the weakness on this team is not the fault of the Mgr. but the poor handling of depth by the front office. Maybe Tony could have pushed a little harder in Spring training and the with conditioning the injuries might be slightly diminished. Putting our original LF in was an error because we caved to him wanting to play in the field but when he is in he is just an accident waiting to happen. Hope we are training Mercedes to play out there. We need his bat every day especially now with the loss of Robert. Back to the Media, maybe in going on the attack they are hoping we will not remember the pressure they were putting on the Bears to do everything possible to grab Watson ( can't miss) including giving away the team. That sure looks like some really bad advice right now. Being in the Media is great you never ever have to answer for your stupidity.

Give me a list of teams in the majors other than the Dodgers and Padres that would survive losing two possible All-Star outfielders (Eloy, Robert), a quality RF (Eaton - I did not expect him to be quality, but credit where it's due at this point in the season) and the primary quality backup (Engel) to injury. That is with...

1. The top position prospect emerging as an average LF (per quantitative metrics), but the manager refuses to trust him in the OF, instead trusting another non-OF (Lamb).
2. No minor league season since 2019. We had the alternate site, but Rutherford, Adolfo, Gonzalez, Sheets, and the rest aren't as talented as Vaughn. Sheets has gotten off to a hot start (in an incredibly short sample size of two games), but it's hard to have ready-to-go depth in the minors in May without minor league season since 2019. 
3. Leury would have been a serviceable 5th OF. Hamilton a serviceable 6th OF. 

In short, stop making excuses for a man that has shown repeatedly over the past decade that he is lazy and thinks he is better than everyone else in the game.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

5 minutes ago, Quin said:

Give me a list of teams in the majors other than the Dodgers and Padres that would survive losing two possible All-Star outfielders (Eloy, Robert), a quality RF (Eaton - I did not expect him to be quality, but credit where it's due at this point in the season) and the primary quality backup (Engel) to injury. That is with...

1. The top position prospect emerging as an average LF (per quantitative metrics), but the manager refuses to trust him in the OF, instead trusting another non-OF (Lamb).
2. No minor league season since 2019. We had the alternate site, but Rutherford, Adolfo, Gonzalez, Sheets, and the rest aren't as talented as Vaughn. Sheets has gotten off to a hot start (in an incredibly short sample size of two games), but it's hard to have ready-to-go depth in the minors in May without minor league season since 2019. 
3. Leury would have been a serviceable 5th OF. Hamilton a serviceable 6th OF. 

In short, stop making excuses for a man that has shown repeatedly over the past decade that he is lazy and thinks he is better than everyone else in the game.

I think we can stop saying this about Eaton now. He's slashing 211/299/368. He's not good, and he hasn't been good for quite some time. He had a nice first week, but that's about it.

In Eaton's last 284 PA's (2019-2020), he has a wRC+ of 83, and his wOBA is 291. Slashing 220/290/378. He's not getting any younger. That's nearly half of a season - which could improve I guess - and it's not a glowing endorsement.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Quin]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I think we can stop saying this about Eaton now. He's slashing 211/299/368. He's not good, and he hasn't been good for quite some time. He had a nice first week, but that's about it.

I was considered that, but graded on a slight curve for possible nagging injury. Which I guess we knew going in.

At worst, he's been serviceable.

[Kyyle23]

It seems like all of the FA right fielders suck so far so we can just call it a push all around

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, Quin said:

I was considered that, but graded on a slight curve for possible nagging injury. Which I guess we knew going in.

At worst, he's been serviceable.

He hasn't been the worst player in baseball like he may have been last year, but it's just not something to pat anyone on the back for. I guess the saving grace for the FO is he's been better than Joc and Ozuna and etc but I wouldn't bet on the Ozuna thing continuing. Who knows with Joc, he's looked miserable.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said:

It seems like all of the FA right fielders suck so far so we can just call it a push all around

Castellanos been pretty great, and I remember quite a few fans wanting him two years ago. Castellanos would look mighty good in the middle of that lineup instead of Hendriks at the back end of the bullpen too. This is where the distribution of funds was not managed well by the FO in my opinion. To be fair, I was very worried about Hendriks overuse the past couple years before the signing and after it on this site. I hope he keeps it together and works out.

[Two-Gun Pete]

34 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

They can be true.  I know you are angry about Hendriks being signed and I'm just not gonna get into that argument, it isn't anything we can change.  I absolutely recognize he has not done his Job this season.  In regards to yesterday, it was all bad and yet again TLR put his closer in a weird situation that he shouldn't have been in.   

Yeah, I agree.

What underpins both of these issues, and really ALL of the SOX issues in recent years is this:

Both decisions on Hendriks and TLR were bad and dumb. The braying masses routinely b**** about spending money on this acquisition or that acquisition.

However, I think that HOW INTELLIGENTLY this org makes decisions and spends money matters much more than whether or not they spend.

 

It sucks. It sucks that after getting mired in mediocrity, then sitting through years of losing, that a few injuries have hurt this teams chances. But to me, it hurts MORE that they keep making self-inflicted wounds to their own chances of winning, by making bad and dumb decisions. Both Hendriks and TLR are, in this way, one in the same.

[Kyyle23]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Castellanos been pretty great, and I remember quite a few fans wanting him two years ago. Castellanos would look mighty good in the middle of that lineup instead of Hendriks at the back end of the bullpen too. This is where the distribution of funds was not managed well by the FO in my opinion. To be fair, I was very worried about Hendriks overuse the past couple years before the signing and after it on this site. I hope he keeps it together and works out.

I'm talking about the FA crop that Eaton was a part of, Joc, Ozuna, Eaton etc 

[gusguyman]

4 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

It seems like all of the FA right fielders suck so far so we can just call it a push all around

I'm still mad we didn't beat the Marlins dirt cheap offer for Starling Marte at the deadline last year (IK he is injured right now but still). 

[Two-Gun Pete]

16 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Castellanos would look mighty good in the middle of that lineup instead of Hendriks at the back end of the bullpen too. This is where the distribution of funds was not managed well by the FO in my opinion. To be fair, I was very worried about Hendriks overuse the past couple years before the signing and after it on this site. I hope he keeps it together and works out.

Agreed, and thank you for stating what I've been stating. In an organization that has financial constraints, asset allocation matters MORE than for the richer orgs.

And I agree that Hendriks' value was bloated by Oakland overusing him. What scares me is that if this is what he is NOW, how much shittier will Hendriks be in a year or two from now?

Sure, Hendriks is and was better than Colome. But 1 year/$6.25MM sounds a fuckton better than 3 and $54MM. I share your hope that Hendriks can get his shit sorted. I just hope that this org doesn't start throwing good money after bad at this point.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Two-Gun Pete

[poppysox]

11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

He hasn't been the worst player in baseball like he may have been last year, but it's just not something to pat anyone on the back for. I guess the saving grace for the FO is he's been better than Joc and Ozuna and etc but I wouldn't bet on the Ozuna thing continuing. Who knows with Joc, he's looked miserable.

The worst player in baseball last year was EE.  I assume we could all agree on that at least.

[Kyyle23]

The Athletic has another lovely article to provide us angst on this rainy day off

 

https://theathletic.com/2571204/2021/05/06/greenberg-tony-tony-tony-la-russa-has-done-it-again-and-it-feels-bad-for-white-sox-fans/?source=user_shared_article

[Texsox]

Why it's it that we can only have one problem at a time?  There are a number of problems with the team, one is we have players, coaches,  and managers relearning or learning their positions. 

We've had players,  coaches,  and managers fail at key times. Why give any of these guys a break? You score zero runs you aren't going to win games. You make poor decisions you're not going to win games. Multiple key players get hurt,  your going to lose games.  Plenty of blame to go around.

This is why we're the worse franchise in baseball. No back to back playoff appearances. Lowest win percentage this century. Worst franchise in baseball. All we're arguing about is which of all the problems we have is the worst. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, Texsox said:

Why it's it that we can only have one problem at a time?  There are a number of problems with the team, one is we have players, coaches,  and managers relearning or learning their positions. 

We've had players,  coaches,  and managers fail at key times. Why give any of these guys a break? You score zero runs you aren't going to win games. You make poor decisions you're not going to win games. Multiple key players get hurt,  your going to lose games.  Plenty of blame to go around.

This is why we're the worse franchise in baseball. No back to back playoff appearances. Lowest win percentage this century. Worst franchise in baseball. All we're arguing about is which of all the problems we have is the worst. 

Players aren't trying to score zero runs. That will happen. Thats just baseball. It wasn't as if they didn't know how to score, or forgot. The manager isn't even trying to do his job correctly, he doesn't know the actual rules. 

A managers job is to give his team the best chance of winning by putting players in positions of success. Does scoring zero runs cause issues for winning? Sure. But the sox know they have to score runs. The problem is the manager doesn't know he has to know the rules. He doesn't know that running with a man on 3rd and 1 out in extras is dumb. He doesn't know the things he should know. He's not trying.

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Players aren't trying to score zero runs. That will happen. Thats just baseball. It wasn't as if they didn't know how to score, or forgot. The manager isn't even trying to do his job correctly, he doesn't know the actual rules. 

A managers job is to give his team the best chance of winning by putting players in positions of success. Does scoring zero runs cause issues for winning? Sure. But the sox know they have to score runs. The problem is the manager doesn't know he has to know the rules. He doesn't know that running with a man on 3rd and 1 out in extras is dumb. He doesn't know the things he should know. He's not trying.

Leury and Hamilton getting key ABs late in the game needs to end. I'd take Mendick over both those guys and Lamb at least over Hamilton.

[Quin]

4 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Why it's it that we can only have one problem at a time?  There are a number of problems with the team, one is we have players, coaches,  and managers relearning or learning their positions. 

We've had players,  coaches,  and managers fail at key times. Why give any of these guys a break? You score zero runs you aren't going to win games. You make poor decisions you're not going to win games. Multiple key players get hurt,  your going to lose games.  Plenty of blame to go around.

This is why we're the worse franchise in baseball. No back to back playoff appearances. Lowest win percentage this century. Worst franchise in baseball. All we're arguing about is which of all the problems we have is the worst. 

Eh, I'd put the Mariners, D-Backs, Rockies all comfortably worse than the White Sox.

[Balta1701]

11 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Why it's it that we can only have one problem at a time?  There are a number of problems with the team, one is we have players, coaches,  and managers relearning or learning their positions. 

We've had players,  coaches,  and managers fail at key times. Why give any of these guys a break? You score zero runs you aren't going to win games. You make poor decisions you're not going to win games. Multiple key players get hurt,  your going to lose games.  Plenty of blame to go around.

This is why we're the worse franchise in baseball. No back to back playoff appearances. Lowest win percentage this century. Worst franchise in baseball. All we're arguing about is which of all the problems we have is the worst. 

This is literally a thread on the manager. If you would like to create a thread saying "The hitting coach is not preparing these guys well!", I guarantee it would not be the first such thread in White Sox history. 

"The White Sox have other problems" does not mean that in a thread created to talk about the brand new and controversial manager we should ignore the decisions of the manager.

[Texsox]

4 minutes ago, Quin said:

Eh, I'd put the Mariners, D-Backs, Rockies all comfortably worse than the White Sox.

We have 70+ more years of futility. 

[Jerksticks]

So let’s take a look at it with the idea that the manager the Sox wanted was not available or ready so they hired TLR as a bridge to who they want.  I think boiling this all down to “JR wanted to hire his friend” is like level 2-out-of-10 thinking.  
 

Since the window is obviously a decade or so...who is the guy?

[Texsox]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

This is literally a thread on the manager. If you would like to create a thread saying "The hitting coach is not preparing these guys well!", I guarantee it would not be the first such thread in White Sox history. 

"The White Sox have other problems" does not mean that in a thread created to talk about the brand new and controversial manager we should ignore the decisions of the manager.

Fair point. Even better point if the manager was programming machines and not managing people.